Insects survive the rain using Tai Chi principles

[ChiDragon]

Use zhan (sticking up), nian (adhering to), lian (linking to), and sui (following with),

which is what I said when I said Stick-Adhere-Follow is the taiji principle mosquitoes use. Which you said was a Western idea.

 

Q: how many times can a mosquito bite a taoist who uses taiji principles?

 

Okay...let's give it one more try.

 

Stick-Adhere-Follow is not a western idea but it is an English descriptive name for the two line pithy. The reason I have use the Yin-Yang concept to explain it. It is because that is the most basic and easiest to describe Tai Ji. There was no descriptive name given for the pithy in Chinese. Indeed, you are correct about the principle that was applied by the mosquito. However, the SAF method was applied by human hand-to-hand, solid vs solid. For the mosquito, it has less advantage because it is dealing with solid vs liquid.

 

In this case, here is my rationale:

The water droplet adheres to the mosquito(not by choice); then the mosquito follows the motion of the droplet, in order, for it to escape by detaching itself from the droplet at the end.

Edited June 6, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

Okay...let's give it one more try.

 

Stick-Adhere-Follow is not a western idea but it is an English descriptive name for the two line pithy. The reason I have use the Yin-Yang concept to explain it. It is because that is the most basic and easiest to describe Tai Ji. There was no descriptive name given for the pithy in Chinese. Indeed, you are correct about the principle that was applied by the mosquito. However, the SAF method was applied by human hand-to-hand, solid vs solid. For the mosquito, it has less advantage because it is dealing with solid vs liquid.

 

In this case, here is my rationale:

The water droplet adheres to the mosquito(not be choice); then the mosquito follows the motion of the droplet, in order, for it to escape by detaching itself from the droplet at the end.

 

No, that's not what happens -- see the originally referenced article and the pictures. The mosquito hugs the rain drop sticking to it in a taiji fashion (minimal force but not "not enough"), adhering to it and following its motion without losing contact and without exerting force as the drop "falls into emptiness" (in the case of a free fall one doesn't need to "lure it into emptiness first" because it's already there, whereas in the push-hands encounter, you create/facilitate the situation of free fall for your opponent as you stick-adhere-follow.)

 

At this small level, water is not amorphous, it is a ball of perfect roundness and surface tension acts as its "skin." That's what the mosquito makes contact with -- the "skin" of the water ball.

Richard Feynman, the Nobel Prize physicist and one of the greatest of the 20th century, was the master whose books taught me the importance of observation that trumps theoretical constructs. He would carry a magnifying glass in his pocket so as not to waste his time when he was stuck doing "nothing" -- e.g. waiting for a bus -- and observe something closely. That's how he discovered that at the micro level water behaves in ways which you normally don't see at the macro level, an observation that later turned into classic works in hydrodynamics. He saw an ant crawling on a leaf and whipped out his magnifying glass. The ant approached a puddle of water formed in the dent in the leaf after a recent rain. With his front "paws" the ant broke off a piece of water (sic!) so gently as not to break the forces of the surface tension, and the water formed a tiny, shiny, perfect ball. The ant was holding it in front of him and walked away carrying it. Then the next one. Feynman watched transfixed. I read and learned.

 

The mosquito uses such precise stick-adhere-follow technique when grabbing a ball of water (I'll tell you another story about how I know first hand, from observation, that water at this scale forms objects of comparative "solidity" due to uniform surface tension), such measured skill, that the ball's "skin" does not break and its motion is not disrupted. That's how he finds safety in the rain. If he just let the drop hit him, it wouldn't stick or adhere -- it would break, throwing the mosquito into chaotic motion, with all the other countless drops in his way finally mangling him and hammering him into the ground. But due to his innate taiji skill (as Mythmaker said, mosquitoes are tao -- and tao in motion, as you may know, is taiji, so they don't have to learn from a teacher, they ARE teacher), the mosquito uses a very specific pattern of motion known to those who have practiced it as stick-adhere-follow. This is, I repeat, a specific proprietary technique of taiji. Yin-yang is used in any type of motion, bar brawl, figure skating, fishing, chess. But stick-adhere-follow is a taiji skill and a taiji principle -- one used in the example given. There's others that are not used. You don't use all of them in any one situation. You choose precisely.

[Taomeow]

Sonovabitch, that's a tactile image I didn't need...owww...*cradles his tender anatomy parts*

 

Hahaha...but yes, shockingly brilliant.

 

You are too delicate for this rough, numbed-out world. So I guess I'll spare you the details of all the illegal (but popular) "enhancement" surgeries they perform on men in Thailand...

 

I have a hard time myself here in SoCal having to see women with bags of goo sewn right into their live breasts -- every freakin' day. And, once the money is invested, the bags of goo are never covered up, ever, they are on permanent prominent display so you have to see them whether you like it or not. And I am very tactile-impressionable. But I can't go around cradling mine in public, though the impulse is there.

[ChiDragon]

.....Deleted duplicate.

Edited June 6, 2012 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

No, that's not what happens -- see the originally referenced article and the pictures. The mosquito hugs the rain drop sticking to it in a taiji fashion (minimal force but not "not enough"), adhering to it and following its motion without losing contact and without exerting force as the drop "falls into emptiness" (in the case of a free fall one doesn't need to "lure it into emptiness first" because it's already there, whereas in the push-hands encounter, you create/facilitate the situation of free fall for your opponent as you stick-adhere-follow.)

 

Yes, it make sense. Thank you for the precise explanation. It has to be Stick-Adhere-Follow, in order, to have zero force; so the mosquito can maintain in contact with the water droplet without any downward pressure.

 

 

(as Mythmaker said, mosquitoes are tao -- and tao in motion, as you may know, is taiji,

 

If mosquitoes are Tao, then anybody can be Tao.

 

As far as "Tao in motion is Taiji"; I have to sit on this one for awhile....

Edited June 6, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

Yes, it make sense. Thank you for the precise explanation. It has to be Stick-Adhere-Follow, in order, to have zero force; so the mosquito can maintain in contact with the water droplet without any downward pressure.

 

Yup, exactly.

 

 

 

If mosquitoes are Tao, then anybody can be Tao.

 

As far as "Tao in motion is Taiji"; I have to sit on this one for awhile....

 

Anybody can be tao, but as the sage said, "in the human world, tao has been destroyed." Of course in the long run it is indestructible. But "human race is run" at its own pace -- force, interfere, thwart. If it doesn't return to the tao ways, tao will restore itself minus the human race, is all.

 

"Tao in motion is taiji" -- not taiji as the shorthand for "taijiquan" but taiji proper, the yin-yang polarity of the world of manifestations. Tao-in-stillness is wuji, tao-in-motion is taiji. That's the whole premise of taoism. It is missed by Indo-European modalities, whether Western or Eastern, that insist on an absolute -- emptiness, stillness, nothingness, nirvana, cessation of manifestations, etc.. In taoism, wuji and taiji go both ways. As the sage said, being and nonbeing engender each other. The simple way to say the same thing is "tao in stillness gives rise to tao in motion, and tao in motion reverts to tao in stillness." Not "once and for all" though but "always and forever there and back." To and fro goes the Way...

[ChiDragon]

Thank you. Now, I know what it was mean to be. It was a thing that I am not used to the expression because normally we don't relate Tao to Tai Ji but Yin-Yang. Even though Tai Ji is Yin-Yang and Yin-Yang is Tai Ji, however, this express was only utilized for explanations in Tai Ji Quan in my native language. I am still learning to correlate to terms used in the west. Please bear with me.....

Edited June 6, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

Thank you. Now, I know what it was mean to be. It was a thing that I am not used to the expression because normally we don't relate Tao to Tai Ji but Yin-Yang. Even though Tai Ji is Yin-Yang and Yin-Yang is Tai Ji, however, this express was only utilized for explanations in Tai Ji Quan in my native language. I am still learning to correlate to terms used in the west. Please bear with me.....

 

You are welcome.

 

So, now I have a question for you. How would you apply stick-adhere-follow to learning a language? I started learning Chinese a while back, but I can't seem to stick with it, what I learn does not seem to adhere properly, I don't follow up and it all falls into emptiness. Who's the enemy fighting against me? How do I overcome her?

[ChiDragon]

May I ask how did you start learning it.

Did you go to school? Or

You have private lessens...??

What is your purpose, in any particular field, for learning it...???

 

Can you give me some idea, so, I will have something to go by...??

 

Thanks.

[mYTHmAKER]

I haven't had the time or patience to read all the 'discussion' in detail so

this may have been covered.

Mosquito's most likely are able to sense the raindrop coming their way

by a change in the air ahead of the drop - maybe it causes a wind

 

It's very hard to swat a fly possibly for the same reason

 

What do the Chinese classics have to say about this

[ChiDragon]

I haven't had the time or patience to read all the 'discussion' in detail so

this may have been covered.

Mosquito's most likely are able to sense the raindrop coming their way

by a change in the air ahead of the drop - maybe it causes a wind

 

It's very hard to swat a fly possibly for the same reason

 

What do the Chinese classics have to say about this

hahahaha....

 

It was not the wind that trigger the fly. Flies have circular eyes; it was its eyes which can detect all the movements around it.

 

When I swat a fly, I hold my hand still then run straight down to the fly. I used to be able to follow the fly to the wall and smacked it with my palm(Tai Ji hand). The key to kill a fly was not to let it see what is coming....

 

If you raise your hand first then hit, that was a dead give away for the fly.....

Edited June 6, 2012 by ChiDragon

[mYTHmAKER]

hahahaha....

 

It was not the wind that trigger the fly. Flies have circular eyes; it was its eyes which can detect all the movements around it.

 

When I swat a fly, I hold my hand still then run straight down to the fly. I used to be able to follow the fly to the wall and smacked it with my palm(Tai Ji hand). The key to kill a fly was not to let it see what is coming....

 

If you raise your hand first then hit, that was a dead give away for the fly.....

 

What about mosquitos

[ChiDragon]

Mosquito normally lands on you, then you can smack it with your hand. Their reaction is much slower then the fly.

 

mosquitos

Edited June 6, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

I haven't had the time or patience to read all the 'discussion' in detail so

this may have been covered.

Mosquito's most likely are able to sense the raindrop coming their way

by a change in the air ahead of the drop - maybe it causes a wind

 

It's very hard to swat a fly possibly for the same reason

 

What do the Chinese classics have to say about this

 

In classic Chinese novels martial masters exercise their skill by throwing needles at flies and killing them this way.

 

They do it privately, because someone with developed gong would know many of their secrets if he or she observed this. Needle-throwing techniques were cultivated by certain specific schools, whose teachings were not readily shared with the uninitiated. The aim was to hit a vital point in combat, choosing either a lethal or a non-lethal one. A master could also use a device for this that released many needles in a shower, hitting several points or several attackers. Both men and women were trained in this technique, but it was particularly useful for the ladies who weren't expected or allowed to carry weapons.

[Taomeow]

May I ask how did you start learning it.

Did you go to school? Or

You have private lessens...??

What is your purpose, in any particular field, for learning it...???

 

Can you give me some idea, so, I will have something to go by...??

 

Thanks.

 

I started with a private tutor, but he wasn't really a teacher, he was an engineer who offered to help out. The mistake in his teaching style was that he was doing 95% of the talking, instead of making me say or read whatever we were learning a hundred times, correcting me a hundred times if necessary. Instead, he would respond to a mistake by giving a lengthy lecture. Just too damn talkative.

 

Then I took a course at the community school. Same problem. The teacher was great -- and knew it -- and the students were lousy -- and she knew it -- so she enjoyed listening to the only proficient Chinese speaker in class, herself, more than to anyone else. Typically you had 8 second's worth of the hour to say something. And I believe pronunciation is the only real difficulty with this language -- the rest is a matter of applying yourself, but phonetics is something in a class of its own. But they don't know how to teach that and only make fun of the foreigner's attempts instead of breaking down the movements of the organs of speech the way a good taiji or qigong teacher would break down the movements of a routine. They don't give you the precise routine. And it's not easy to figure out on your own. I wound up buying books that do explain how to do it phonetically, but then I don't have a teacher to check and guide my progress, so it all stalled.

 

Then I went to China for a month and a half, and started understanding some of the spoken language, but got even more intimidated speaking myself.

 

Oh, and the incentive? Well, I'm a taoist. There's a lot of things I would like to be able to do without the middle man (interpreter/translator). Besides, I find the language very beautiful. It flows like a river, there's some tao right there in the sound. And in general I admire the way it is organized -- the imprecision of words that have a "cloud of meanings" that describe rather than define phenomena (which is the right way to approach most phenomena IMO, with few exceptions). The pictorial nature of the writing and its aesthetic appeal. So, long story short, I want to have some proficiency in it, but I can't seem to find a mode of steady study.

[mYTHmAKER]

What about mosquitos

 

i was referring to the idea that mosquito's can feel the air movement ahead of the raindrop.

I know they land on you and are slower

[ChiDragon]

 

Oh, and the incentive? Well, I'm a taoist. There's a lot of things I would like to be able to do without the middle man (interpreter/translator). Besides, I find the language very beautiful. It flows like a river, there's some tao right there in the sound. And in general I admire the way it is organized -- the imprecision of words that have a "cloud of meanings" that describe rather than define phenomena (which is the right way to approach most phenomena IMO, with few exceptions). The pictorial nature of the writing and its aesthetic appeal. So, long story short, I want to have some proficiency in it, but I can't seem to find a mode of steady study.

 

I see the problem that you were having was that no one have encouraged you to learn with enthusiasm. For phonetics, now a days, there is pinyin which is very easy for learning to speak. Since you are a Taoist, it would be more interesting if you start learning something relating to Taoism.

 

I can start you with learning how to call yourself as a Taoist.

 

道(dao4): Tao

人(Ren2): a person; a human being; people; "ist'

 

If you combine the two characters together, then you have:

道+人: Tao + person = Taoist.

 

Now, you are a 道人(dao4 ran2) which is a Taoist.

 

I am sure that you know about the pinyin system and the number after it. The number is the tone for the pronunciation. There four tones in the Chinese mandarin.

 

 

The four tones in Chinese pronunciation.

1. / the tone goes up

2. - flat tone

3. ~ a waving tone

4. \ the tone goes down.

[ChiDragon]

i was referring to the idea that mosquito's can feel the air movement ahead of the raindrop.

I know they land on you and are slower

 

 

Did you miss this. Mosquito has its own sensory system.

My link: mosquitos

Edited June 6, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

I see the problem that you were having was that no one have encouraged you to learn with enthusiasm. For phonetics, now a days, there is pinyin which is very easy for learning to speak. Since you are a Taoist, it would be more interesting if you start learning something relating to Taoism.

 

I can start you with learning how to call yourself as a Taoist.

 

道(dao4): Tao

人(Ren2): a person; a human being; people; "ist'

 

If you combine the two characters together, then you have:

道+人: Tao + person = Taoist.

 

Now, you are a 道人(dao4 ran2) which is a Taoist.

 

I am sure that you know about the pinyin system and the number after it. The number is the tone for the pronunciation. There four tones in the Chinese mandarin.

 

 

The four tones in Chinese pronunciation.

1. / the tone goes up

2. - flat tone

3. ~ a waving tone

4. \ the tone goes down.

 

Not a bad idea to focus on things taoist. But please don't assume an "absolute beginner" level. "I am a taoist" is quite within the range of my to-date Mandarin capabilities.

 

My most memorable accomplishment in China: a crazy-looking old lady approached me and said something, a rather long phrase, then stood there waiting for a response. I responded 我不会说普通话, but since this was the very phrase on whose correct pronunciation I had worked very hard, apparently I said it so well that she didn't believe me. She got angry and started yelling, Hui shuo! Hui shuo! accusing me that I didn't want to talk to HER and because of that pretended that I couldn't speak Chinese.

 

So, do you know of any program along the lines of Pimsleur but centered around things taoist? (Pimsleur is great if the goal is for an American man to learn to pick up Chinese women by getting them drunk, this seems to be the main focus of the chosen conversations, at least the ones I've learned so far from this otherwise wonderful source.) It's got to be interactive and it's got to be conversational. I want help with spoken Chinese, I want fluency, I want Mandarin on autopilot, without having to stick my nose into a book. I want an oral transmission. Whatever can be found in books, I can find on my own.

 

Narrowing it down further:

is there a program in existence that uses taoist principles in teaching Chinese?

[Cat Pillar]

You are too delicate for this rough, numbed-out world. So I guess I'll spare you the details of all the illegal (but popular) "enhancement" surgeries they perform on men in Thailand...

 

I have a hard time myself here in SoCal having to see women with bags of goo sewn right into their live breasts -- every freakin' day. And, once the money is invested, the bags of goo are never covered up, ever, they are on permanent prominent display so you have to see them whether you like it or not. And I am very tactile-impressionable. But I can't go around cradling mine in public, though the impulse is there.

 

Hahaha, it's mostly my own fault for imagining it in the first place.

 

But yeah, thinking about it I guess I am pretty delicate. I felt very flattered by that, actually.

 

Tactile-impressionable, I like that. Good description.

 

I'm sure some (maybe many?) in SoCal wouldn't object to you cradling your tender bits in public.

[ChiDragon]

1. Not a bad idea to focus on things taoist. But please don't assume an "absolute beginner" level. "I am a taoist" is quite within the range of my to-date Mandarin capabilities.

 

2. Narrowing it down further:

is there a program in existence that uses taoist principles in teaching Chinese?

 

1. I didn't mean to assume that you are an "absolute beginner". I have to start somewhere to probe your mind. That was why I ask you to tell me something in advance. Without really talking to you, I won't know what is in your mind and what you are capable of.

 

2. Sorry, there is no such program that I am aware of. I have seen some self learning recorded language teaching tools in the stores. To learn a language, one is really needed to have someone to talk to with some tutoring guidance.

 

We need to communicate more as we did in the last few posts. As a result, I am getting to find out how much you know without guessing on my part. Maybe we can learn more from each other in the near future. All these stuff that I know, I don't want to just have it in my mind. I like to talk to somebody that knows what I am talking about. I felt great that we have exposed ourselves in this thread and communicated well. Best of all, we come to a mutual understanding on the Stick-Adhere-Follow principle. Thus we can only learn from each other if we are able to communicate on a common ground.

[Brian]

This is an interesting conversation about tai chi and philosophy (and I'm enjoying reading it!) but it really has very little to do with the mosquito & the raindrop.

 

A "near miss" is due to the pressure differential preceding the raindrop -- it is "pushing" a curved wall of air and that tends to push the (very lightweight and not very stable) mosquito out of the way. The case of a direct hit is a bit more fun.

 

The mosquito isn't really "doing" anything other than getting hit by a raindrop. Because of its very low mass, it has little effect on the drop and the mosquito only absorbs a very small amount of energy in the momentum change. As a result of its thin structure, it slides easily through the surface tension of the drop without breaking it (sort of the reverse of a water-strider walking on water...)

 

Once trapped by the drop, it just goes for a ride. When the ride is over, the combination of the energy absorbtion by the deforming surface (pre-break) and the cushioning hydraulics result in an extended impulse period so that the already low kinetic energy of the falling mosquito is reduced, distributed & prolonged in transfer. No need for the mosquito to employ taiji principles because simple Newtonian mechanics already has it covered. The mosquito has little choice in the matter.

 

On the topic of the housefly, it is worth pointing out that flies, in addition to remarkable vision, have lots of little hairlike sensors that detect pressure differentials so they can "feel" your swatting hand approaching (flyswatters with holes in them work better because of this). As a bonus fact for the day, flies jump up and backwards when they take off so the spot to intercept one is slightly above & behind it (should you have a desire to intercept (with a catch or a clap?) a fly in mid-air...)

[ChiDragon]

On the topic of the housefly, it is worth pointing out that flies, in addition to remarkable vision, have lots of little hairlike sensors that detect pressure differentials so they can "feel" your swatting hand approaching (flyswatters with holes in them work better because of this). As a bonus fact for the day, flies jump up and backwards when they take off so the spot to intercept one is slightly above & behind it (should you have a desire to intercept (with a catch or a clap?) a fly in mid-air...)

 

I almost never miss a fly with my Tai Ji hand. Smack a fly with my palm is a good way to test my Tai Ji skill level. The trick is not to let the fly see what is coming. It is more effective when my palm goes down directly above the fly. Even the fly can move in any direction, if the hand is quick enough, the fly may not escape in time within the palm area.

 

The real trick was to hold the hand still in the air; do not move the hand up before the strike. That will give a less chance for the fly detect any movement around it. By the time it takes off, it was too late because it got hit at the same time during take off. Even it took off, but it still cannot escape within the palm area.

 

When the fly is flying close to the wall, I use the 'follow' method to track its movement and smack it against the wall. This was happening when I was playing MJ with my friends and this fly was flying around within my territory. Without any hesitation, I just follow the fly with my palm spontaneously and smacked it.

 

Needless to say, I did not born with this mental control and body coordination ability. However, I have to give credit to the long time practice of Tai Ji.

 

Regarding to the mosquito, if you look at where the water droplet is on the mosquito, you might give it a second thought. From the picture, the droplet was on the tail end of the mosquito which indicates that the mosquito had planned that way...

 

 

Edited to add:

PS...

A flyswatter with holes was for less air friction during the strike on the way down.

Edited June 8, 2012 by ChiDragon