The Highest Level Of Immortality

[Wells]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAnpFHU87Og

 

„But the highest level some of those old masters achieved is what they called 'daytime ascending'. They could raise their energy so high that they could dissolve even their bodies into pure energy and just vanish and turn into a 'saint'. You can see this sort of event recorded in the old legends or notes of this sort of master turning up from time to time in the official records.“
~Waysun Liao, "Tao-The Way Of God"~

 

Rainbow Body, Diamond Body, Vajra Body, Daylight Ascension, Celestial Immortality.

The highest Level of immortality: Taking the matter of you body with you by converting it into pure energy. Result: Becoming a saint who can come and go into this dimension as he wishes and being able to appear in bodily form, visible to everybody.

It's also the highest Level in Alchemy: Mastering and alchemically transforming even the matter of your body into energy and fusing it to your spiritual being.

This achievement can be found as highest goal in different traditions: "Rainbow Body" in Buddhism, "Celestial Immortality" or "Daylight Ascension" in Taoism, "Vajra Body" in Tantra.

Was it even Jesus' Level?

Some masters achieve it during life, some masters die and then take the mass of their material body with them while the body sends out "rainbow" light.

Only hair and nails remain.

 

Please discuss:

How is it done?

Systems, practices, principles, evidence?

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Rainbow Body" in Superhero popculture: Dr Manhattan!

[RongzomFan]

If you want to be a physical immortal like Shiva, read:

 

http://www.khecari.com/styled/index.html

[Wells]

http://zhendaopai.com/mastership-of-celestial-immortals/

Great Vehicle – Mastership of Celestial Immortals (大乘天仙功) consists of three levels (8^th, 9^th, and 10^th), development of which lets
one achieve True Immortality. Having completed the 10^th level of the Great Vehicle, a practitioner transforms his physical body into a clear energy; and his Spirit joins the Spirit of the entire Universe. On this level, a person comprehends Dao and becomes a Great Immortal. This achievement is called a True Celestial Immortality.

 

There are no limitations and impossibilities for the Master of the Great Vehicle. On this level, death does not exist – he leaves this world when he wishes, by transforming body into energy, and can come back, transforming energy into a physical subject, when he wishes. Master of the Middle Vehicle, can also come back to this world. However, he will not be able to create a physical body for himself; he would have to be born again, as a normal human.

 

There have been many Masters who achieved the True Celestial Immortality. The most famous among them were Lao Zi, Zhongli Quan, Lu Dongbin etc. Energy field of people of this level sheds all colours of a rainbow, which shows the highest achievement. Nowadays there are also Masters who have achieved such a level, however, they usually live high in the mountains.

http://www.all-dao.com/immortality-achievements.html

5. Heaven immortal – Tian Xian ( 天仙 )
Let me remind you that even the previous stage can be stretched on endlessly. But the immortal spirit still has not- transformed body. Therefore there remains the possibility of realization of the highest stage which is possible on Earth according to alchemy - the transformation of this body in the body of light. This is the most difficult task because it requires about 9 -10 years of immobility. It should be provided either by faithful pupils and adherents, The Teacher, or by concealment by having immured in a cave according to certain rules. After its implementation the body and the spirit merge together in the "body" of light and when the achiever leaves the world nothing is left (except for remaining things as in case of with Bodhidharma’s shoe). If due to some reasons the practitioner does not reach the highest stage, he may either himself at his will or under certain circumstances "get rid of the corpse." Depending of the achieved level his left body may not be susceptible to decay but self-mummify or even burn from the inner fire.

[Aetherous]

May only people who are destined and permitted to understand the following be able to, because I share this info without knowing the repercussions or fully understanding it myself...

In the rainbow body paintings, you see that the heart and head are both open and radiating the "5 pure lights". You also see that the heart and head are connected by a channel of light, which is the "kati" channel in the Tibetan tradition. Something that opens this is gazing at a slight angle downward without focus, or basically looking at nothing in particular, into empty space (which is actually a Taoist method as well)...if you do that while meditating for a while, without blinking, you will see colored lights, which reveal that the mind and heart are more connected. I think it's similar to when meditators report seeing the blue sphere of light, or the nimitta (in Theravada). Being free of a guilty conscience or any concerns also opens it. This book discusses it a little bit, and in particular says that in the Tibetan tradition, closed eye meditation shuts the kati channel down.

 

Here we see a Buddha representation showing the right kind of gaze...

 

 

These photos from Kunlun Nei Gung might be some evidence of achieving a type of rainbow body during life (one could argue that they're just photoshopped...I don't).

 

Here is the 16th Karmapa in a photo that's said to be showing rainbow body:

 

Oh and also, you might want to check out the Bon Dzogchen teachings on the "Six Lamps".

Edited October 14, 2013 by turtle shell

[Wells]

http://www.thegreattao.com/html/taoofphilosophy.html

The body of the Celestial Immortal is completely spiritualized (not limited by space or time). The Celestial Immortal and God are one. Tao is the guiding force.

 

 

http://xuanfa.net/buddha-dharma/transitions/rainbow-body/

 

1952--Sonam Namgyal

• Dzogchen Lineage: Dzogchen Shri Singha Five Sciences University, “…an ordinary Tibetan hunter, Sonam Namgyal, secretly practiced the Dzogchen Nyingthig for many years in the sacred Dzogchen area and, in 1952, attained Rainbow Body in front of thousands of people.”
• Sogyal Rinpoche wrote in the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, “In 1952 there was a famous instance of the rainbow body in the East of Tibet, witnessed by many people. The man who attained it, Sonam Namgyal, was the father of my tutor at the beginning of this book.
  “He was a very simple, humble person, who made his way as an itinerant stone carver, carving mantras and sacred texts. Some say he had been a hunter in his youth, and had received a teaching from a great master. No one really knew he was a practitioner; he was truly called a ‘hidden yogin.’
  “. . . he then fell ill, or seemed to, but became strangely, increasingly happy. When he illness got worse, his family called in masters and doctors… “Just before his death at seventy-nine, he said ‘All I ask is that when I die, don’t move my body for a week.’ When he died his family wrapped his body and invited Lamas and monks to come and practice for him. They placed the body in a small room in the house, and they could not help noticing that although he had been a tall person, they had no trouble getting it in, as if he were becoming smaller. At the same time, an extraordinary display of rainbow-colored light was seen all around the house. When they looked into the room on the sixth day, they saw that the body was getting smaller and smaller. On the eight day after his death, the morning in which the funeral had been arranged, the undertakers arrived to collect the body. When they undid its coverings, they found nothing inside but his nails and hair.”

http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Rainbow_Body

 

Rainbow Body

rainbow body ('ja' lus).

• At the time of death of a practitioner who has reached the exhaustion of all grasping and fixation through the Dzogchen practice of Tögal, the five gross elements which form the physical body, dissolve back into their essences, five-colored light. Sometimes only the hair and the nails are left behind. [RY]
• See also: Rainbow Body of Great Transformation ('ja' lus 'pho ba chen po).

Rainbow Body ('ja' lus) the transformation of the bodily substance into multi-hued light. [RY]

Rainbow body ('ja' lus). At the time of death of a practitioner who has reached the exhaustion of all grasping and fixation through the Dzogchen practice of Tögal, the five gross elements which form the physical body, dissolve back into their essences, five-colored light. Sometimes only the hair and the nails are left behind. RY

Rainbow Body ('ja' lus). Passing away in a mass of rainbow light and leaving no corpse behind. [RY]

rainbow body ('ja' lus); sixteenth bhumi [RY]

Rainbow Body of Great Transformation ('ja' lus 'pho ba chen po). When, through having performed the ultimate practices of the Great Perfection, a yogin is on the verge of dissolving his or her body into rainbow light, he may concentrate awareness on the tips of the finger nails (which are considered dead parts of the body). As with Vimalamitra and Guru Padmasambhava, doing so results in a body of light remaining visible for the sake of all sentient beings. This is the wisdom form called the Rainbow Body of Great Transformation ('ja' lus 'pho ba chen po). If the yogin chooses not to do this concentration, as with Chetsun Senge Wangchuk (lce btsun seng ge dbang phyug 10th-11th cent.), his body will dissolve entirely into light. MR-ShabkarNotes

rainbow body. At the time of death of a practitioner who has reached the exhaustion of all grasping and fixation through the Dzogchen practice of Tögal, the five gross elements which form the physical body, dissolve back into their essences, five-colored light. Sometimes only the hair and the nails are left behind. [RY]

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Where mind leads, chi follows. Utterly open the mind beyond all concepts and dualities, and realise all things as displays of Tao lacking inherent nature. Your chi will then follow to express its deepest potential.

 

You just have to work on sila and samadhi (The Attention Revolution by Alan Wallace is very helpful), use that as a basis for prajna through vipashyana, and ultimately just allow realisation of Tao to bloom.

[Wells]

http://www.oocities.org/ftiso/rainbb.html

 

A Rainbow Body Story

My father was a hunter in his youth. Later he became very devoutly religious and practiced a lot. We didn't know that he was such an accomplished Dzogpa Chempo meditator. He was very secretive about his meditation . For most of his life my father spent his time carving images, mantras, and scriptures in stones in many places. He was very humble and no one
ever expected him to be such a special person, which is as it should be for a true yogi.
Once I was in a retreat. My brother came to me and said :"Father is slightly sick. I don't see anything serious, but he says he is going to die."

Then after a couple of days, on the evening of the seventh day of the fourth month of the Water-dragon year (1952), father died at the age of 79. A lama had advised my brother that they should take special care of their father's body when he died but my relatives didn't understand what that meant.

So, soon after his death they arranged the body in the same way as for an ordinary person.
But they began noticing rainbow lights and rainbow tents around their place, and the body started to reduce his in size. Then they realized that their father had attained enlightenment in the ultimate nature through Dzogpa Chenpo meditation and that his gross body was dissolving in what is popularly known as "Dissolution into Rainbow Body".
After a couple of days ( I can't remember how many days he told me ), his mortal body was dissolved . I hurriedly concluded my retreat and went home. Then everything had gone and only the twenty nails of his body was left behind on the spot where his body was being kept. We collected these remains and except for few little pieces that we kept for ourselves, we offered all the nails and hair to Jamyang Khyenste Chovkyi Lotro, as he wished to have them . Everybody in the valley was talking about my father's death . If a famous Lama died in this manner, it wouldn't be a surprise, but when a humble lay person displayed such a great accomplishment, it amazed us all.

 

The difference between Illusory Body and Rainbow Body:

 

http://books.google.de/books?id=bk-rDk_OyvwC&pg=PA227&lpg=PA227&dq=rainbow+body+hair+nails&source=bl&ots=cqNaDdd9fG&sig=V812oeQ485gTVhpJuehwJh1Ue-Q&hl=de&sa=X&ei=aU9cUpejLcPQtAbj8YCIAQ&ved=0CEkQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=rainbow%20body%20hair%20nails&f=false

 

 

 

http://yoniversum.nl/dakini/rainbody.html

 

 

The Rainbow BodyTib., 'ja' lus; Rainbow body
Skt., indracapa; Bow of Indra

Based on the Tibetan terms lus (that which is left behind, ordinary body) and 'ja' (rainbow, rainbow hue), the Rainbow Body or Vajra Rainbow Body ('ja' lus rdo rje'i sku) is not so much a "body" but rather a vortex of energy into which certain adepts can apparently transform themselves on dying.
Rather than leaving a corpse behind that needs to be cremated or chopped to pieces, highly accomplished men and women rather pass away in a mass of rainbow light. To use a Tibetan phrase, they "dissolve into space like a rainbow" (nam mkha' la 'ja' yal ba ltar); a process which - curiously enough - is reported as leaving the practioners hair and nails behind as physical remnants.

The Tibetan concept of the rainbow is different from the Western (five instead of seven colors). Each of the five colors corresponds to one of the five gross elements that form the material, physical body. Based on this, one finds expressions such as the sphere of five-colored rainbow light ('ja' tshon 'od lnga'i klong) and the light body of the five essences (lnga ldan snying po 'od kyi lus), both of which are poetic synonyms for 'ja' lus, the rainbow body.

Those who will attain the body of rainbow light ('ja' lus bsgrub pa), who - in other words - undergo the great transformation of the rainbow body ('ja' lus 'pho ba chen po), must have learned to cease all grasping and to have exhausted all fixations. This inner cleansing of all attachments, so difficult to realize for human beings, is at the core of the practice known as Thogal or Tögal (Thod-rGal), the "All-Surpassing Realisation" that is part of the Concealed Instructions Series of Dzogchen teachings.

As the above used term great transformation of the rainbow body ('ja' lus 'pho ba chen po) clearly shows by its use of 'pho ba, we're also dealing here with the technique known as Phowa or Powa; the so-called "Transformation Yoga" (Skt., samkranti; Tib., pho-ba) that aims at the conscious ejection or transference of consciousness (to a higher realm) at the moment of death. It is one of the six yogas or doctrines taught by Naropa and Niguma in their respective cycles of teachings; the Naro Chosdrug and Nigu Chosdrug.

 

 

http://www.universal-tao.com/article/immortals.html

 

Teachings of Immortals Chung and Lu

"Becoming an immortal is not the ultimate goal of cultivation. A being who is entirely yin with no yang is a ghost. A being who is entirely yang with no yin is an immortal. Humans are half yin and half yang. Therefore they can become either ghosts or immortals. If we follow our desires and do not begin to cultivate [the Tao] when we are young, we will become ghosts when we die. On the other hand, if we are willing to cultivate, we will be able to transcend human existence, enter the sacred realm, shed the human shell, and become immortals. There are five classes of immortals and three paths of cultivation, and the level of immortality that you will attain will depend on the quality of your cultivation."

"Spirit immortals are earth immortals who have continued their cultivation in the earthly realm. They have connected all the parts of their body; they have used lead to replenish mercury; they can channel the refined generative energy to the top of the head; and they can transform the jade nectar into the elixir. Their bodily form has been transmuted into vapor; the five vapors have reverted back into the one primordial vapor and the three yang essences have gathered at the top of the head. When their cultivation is complete, the mundane body is transformed into the subtle body. Their yin residues are purged and they are completely filled with pure yang. A body emerges from the subtle body as they shed their mundane substance and ascend to the immortal lands. Entering the realm of the sacred, they return to the three mountains and leave the dust of the world forever." "When earth immortals have refined themselves further through cultivation, they are able to shed their shell and become spirit immortals. When spirit immortals who dwell in the three islands have accumulated enough merits by teaching humanity about the Tao, and when their teachings have yielded fruits, they will be summoned by celestial decree to return to the celestial realm. Celestial immortals live in the celestial realm, fulfilling their duties as judges and officials within the celestial administration. They begin their duties as judges of the water realm. Then they are promoted to oversee the earth realm. Eventually they may become administrators of the sky [or celestial] realm.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Dorian Black

[RongzomFan]

Illusory body is just another weird bullshit Tsongkhapa teaching,

[Wells]

Illusory body is just another weird bullshit Tsongkhapa teaching,

Anyways, we are talking about Rainbow Body and techniques to convert the material body into pure energy and fuse it with our spiritual being.

Illusory Body shall not be the topic in this thread.

[RongzomFan]

well you are the one who brought illusory body up.

 

whatever.

[Wells]

well you are the one who brought illusory body up.

 

whatever.

 

I just wanted to point out the difference to the usual concept of spiritual immortality like Taoist Yang Shen or buddhist Illusory Body.

[RongzomFan]

I just wanted to point out the difference to the usual concept of spiritual immortality like Taoist Yang Shen or buddhist Illusory Body.

 

Well you should say Tsongkhapa illusory body.

 

 

The illusory body is in Bon as well, but they got the idea from Tsongkhapa and the Gelugs.

[Wells]

So how is it possible to transform your material body into an energy/spiritual body which can move between dimensions?

By pumping chi into it?

By increasing it's vibrational frequency?

...?

 

Any suggestions?

By letting chi stream through you?

Edited October 14, 2013 by Dorian Black

[thamosh]

Heaven Yang or supreme yang is highly refined energy. It is energy at a higher state. Like the air which has both properties of fire and water.

[Wells]

btw, I just noticed that according to this link, Laozi and the famous 8 Immortals of chinese folklore are in fact Celestial Immortals!

http://zhendaopai.com/mastership-of-celestial-immortals/

There have been many Masters who achieved the True Celestial Immortality. The most famous among them were Lao Zi, Zhongli Quan, Lu Dongbin etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Immortals

 

The Immortals are:

• Immortal Woman He (He Xiangu),
• Royal Uncle Cao (Cao Guojiu),
• Iron-Crutch Li (Tieguai Li),
• Lan Caihe,
• Lü Dongbin, leader;
• Philosopher Han Xiang (Han Xiang Zi),
• Elder Zhang Guo (Zhang Guo Lao), and
• Han Zhongli (Zhongli Quan).

 

Does anyone know something about the practices of these guys?

 

Let's see:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Woman_He

Hé Xiān Gū was the daughter of Ho T‘ai, of the town of Tsêng-ch‘êng, in the prefecture of Guangdong.

At birth she had six long hairs on the crown of her head. When she was about 14 or 15, a divine personage appeared to her in a dream and instructed her to eat powdered mica, in order that her body might become etherealized and immune from death. So she swallowed it, and also vowed to remain a virgin.

Later on by slow degrees she gave up taking ordinary food.

The Empress Wu dispatched a messenger to summon her to attend at the palace, but on the way there, she disappeared.

One day during the Jīng Lóng (景龍) period (about 707 CE), she ascended to Heaven in broad daylight, and became a Hsien (Taoist Immortal).^[2]

Edited October 14, 2013 by Dorian Black

[silent thunder]

My instincts say, raise vibration by clearing blockage.

Release mind/thought/self.

Clear like light.

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

The illusory body is in Bon as well, but they got the idea from Tsongkhapa and the Gelugs.

 

Alwaysoff, you should clarify your statement.

According to Tenzin Namdak (OLD BON), the illusory body is not the rainbow body, but Tenzin Namdak says so his book called "Bonpo Dzogchen Teachings". Your blanket statement that the illusory body is in Bon is not entirely correct.

 

The Tantra View

In the Tantra system, we find a different method described

where it is not necessary to be reborn first in the Akanistha

heaven in order to obtain a subtle body of light. This method is

known as Mayadeha, the Illusion Body or, in Tibetan, Gyulu

(sgyu-lus). In this case, during our lifetime here on earth, we do

the practice of Dzogrim (rdzogs-rim), which is the second phase

of Tantric transformation, and we create in our heart center a

very refined Illusion Body by way of a union of subtle prana and

mind. This Gyulu, or Illusion Body, provides a suitable base for

the manifestation of the Sambhogakaya, and so it is not necessary

to seek this base in any other dimension of existence. We create

this Gyulu during our lifetime on earth by way of our practice,

and then, at the time of our death, we transfer our Namshe, or

consciousness, into it and it then becomes the vehicle for our

Sambhogakaya manifestation.

 

There are, however, two kinds of Gyulu, one pure and the

other impure. If at the time of our death, we have not attained

perfect realization and purified all our subtle obscurations, both

emotional and intellectual, then this subtle body born of the

unification of prana and mind is known as an impure Illusion

Body. In that case, we must do further purification practice in

that body in order to realize perfect enlightenment. Only when

we attain that state can we speak of a pure Illusion Body. The

manifesting of this Gyulu has wrongly been called a Rainbow

Body ('ja' -Ius) or a Body of Light (' od-lus). It is neither because

the manifestation of this Sambhogakaya form depends on our

prior practice and realization of both Kyerim (bskyed-rim), the

process of generation, and Dzogrim (rdzogs-rim), the process of

perfection. [1] Where the view and the practice are different,

then the fruit or result will be different. So these manifestations,

the Illusion Body and the Rainbow Body, are not at all the same.

 

The Dzogchen View

From the standpoint of Dzogchen, this creating of a Gyulu

through the unification of subtle prana and mind (the Tantric

method) and the attaining of rebirth as a Deva in the Akanistha

heaven (the Sutra method) do not represent real Buddhahood.

Nor does an Arhat, the state realized through the Hinayana

method, represent a real Buddha. Once the Arhat has attained

this state of having cut off all his kleshas, or defilements, at their

roots, he need no longer be reborn as a human being. Nevertheless,

at a more exalted level of existence, he must continue the

process of purifying his stream of consciousness because he is still

afflicted with various intellectual obscurations. [2]

Finding himself now at a higher level existence after his last

human rebirth, the Arhat must enter into the practice of the Mahayana

path in order to realize Buddhahood. Similarly, the Tantric

practitioner who has realized the Gyulu does not need to take

another human rebirth. But since this Gyulu is something that

arises from causes, and the same is true of rebirth in Akanistha, it

is therefore not permanent. If knowledge of the Dharmakaya

were brought about by such antecedent causes, it also would be

something that is impermanent. We cannot proceed from our

conditioned existence to an unconditioned state. There is no way

for this to occur.

 

 

Further, Tenzin Namdak also recognizes that Tsongkhapa's influence had extended to the 'new' Nyimgmapas and Bonpos, it does not affect the Old School Bon, for in Bon Dzogchen, there is no grasping at emptiness.

 

In general, the Sutra system of the Gelugpa school, as well as

the other Tibetan schools, is based on the Madhyamika tradition

as expounded, for example, in the Bhavanakrama of Kamalashila

and in the Bodhipathapradipa of Atisha. This Sutra system became

fully elaborated in Je Tsongkhapa's great work, the Lam-rim

chen-mo. After the eleventh century, all the schools of Tibetan

Buddhism came to adhere to the Prasangika Madhyamaka system

of Chandrakirti as their official philosophy, in the same way as

the Gelugpas did later. Even the Nyingmapas and the Bonpos

adopted Prasangika Madhyamaka for their understanding of

Shunyata in relation to the Sutra system. However, their

descriptions of the path according to the Sutra system may differ

in some details. The great Tsongkhapa discussed his understanding

of Shunyata in his commentaries on the Sutra system as

well as in his Legs-bshad snying-po, and elsewhere.

 

Although nowadays all the Tibetan schools use only the

Prasangika Madhyamaka interpretation of Shunyata, in the early

days it was quite a different situation for one could alternatively

use the Chittamatra interpretation of Shunyata. Whichever view

was adopted was up to the individual practitioner. Shantirakshita,

the first abbot of Samye Monastery in the eighth century,

accepted the doctrines of Kunzhi and Rang-rig from Chittamatra,

although he rejected the Yogachara teachings in general. His subschool

of Madhyamaka was known as Svatantrika-YogacharaMadhyamika

(rang-rgyud rnal-'byor spyod-pa'i dbu-ma-pa) and

this was the original Madhyamika tradition in Tibet. Only after

the eleventh century were the writings of Chandrakirti translated

into Tibetan by Patsab Lotsawa and then his interpretation,

known as Prasangika-Madhyamaka (thal-'gyur dbu-ma-pa), gradually

became the fashion among all the schools of Tibet, as far as

explication of the Sutras is concerned. [2] As said, this was true

even for the Nyingmapas and the Bonpos. However, the interpretation

of the Tantras in the two Old Schools is a different

matter.

 

In terms of the Tantra system, the Gelugpas follow the

system of the Guhyasamaja Tantra, the chief of the Father Tantras

and, in particular, the commentary of Je Tsongkhapa on that

Tantra, as well as his famous sNgags-rim chen-mo which is a

treatise on the New Tantra system generally. [3] However, in

terms of the interpretation of the Tantra system, the Sakyapa

school emphasizes the Hevajra Tantra and the Kagyudpa school

emphasizes the Chakrashamvara Tantra. According to all these

schools, both the Sutras and the Tantras are recognized as the

authoritative word of the Buddha. However, the Gelugpas

interpret the Tantras in terms of the Sutras and when these

scholars explain the view of Tantra, the foundation for their

interpretation is the Guhyasamaja Tantra. This is the principal

Tantra practiced by the followers of that school and they rely

upon the view of the great master Tsongkhapa. In his commentaries

he makes much use of, and has many quotations from,

Marpa the translator, especially from the latter's commentary on

the Naro chos drug, or the Six Doctrines of Naropa. He did this

because Marpa wrote from the Guhyasamaja Tantra point of

view. But this view is not the same as that of Dzogchen.

 

Nowadays, there are some Lamas who assert that the

Madhyamaka view, the Mahamudra view, and the Dzogchen

view are all the same. But this is not true, because Madhyamaka

belongs to the Sutra system and Mahamudra belongs to the

Tantra system. Both Sutra and Tantra rely on the mind and its

operations, such as the thought process. Hence, Sutra and Tantra

apprehend and grasp at thoughts. But Dzogchen says that we

must go beyond all grasping (' dzin-pa), which is the apprehending

of an object by the subject, even when this is just a thought. This

Dzinpa or grasping represents a working of the discursive mind,

an agitation of thoughts, even though this movement of thoughts

may be very subtle, perhaps only an unobserved undercurrent.

Yet it is agitation nonetheless, and so it represents delusion

('khrul-pa). Therefore, according to Dzogchen, the practitioner

must go beyond this Dzinpa, no matter how subtle it may be.

Moreover, if this Dzinpa, or grasping at an object by a

subject, is present, then that practice is not Dzogchen. The

capacity of the Natural State to be aware intrinsically is called

Rigpa and that Rigpa is not thought (rnam-rtog). Some Lamas

assert that there must always be some subtle Dzinpa, or thought

process present, for otherwise there could be no knowing or

apprehending of anything whatsoever. If there is no Dzinpa, they

maintain, there is nothing because everything is known by

thoughts. Therefore, the Dzogchenpas are "know-nothings"; they

aim at a state of "no mind," like the followers of the Hwashang

who attempted to teach Ch'an Buddhism in Tibet. [4]

 

 

-Further, as per topic in this thread, any body that is created out of prana and mind is impermanent. The logical conclusion would be that any body built out of Qi would also be impermanent.

 

TI

[RongzomFan]

I would respond, but I don't know what you are talking about as usual

[Tibetan_Ice]

So how is it possible to transform your material body into an energy/spiritual body which can move between dimensions?

By pumping chi into it?

By increasing it's vibrational frequency?

...?

 

Any suggestions?

 

By letting chi stream through you?

DB,

The answer to realizing the rainbow body, according to Lopon Tenzin Namdak, is sort of at direct opposites with cultivation or 'doing anything' other than just letting it be. There is mentioned some preliminary practices (Rushan) of focusing on the white letter 'A', and then turning around to dissolve the self, then learning how to dissolve the visions, but the main practice is remaining in that resultant state and grasping at absolutely nothing.

 

The best book I have found so far is "Bonpo Dzogchen Teachings" by Lopon Tenzin Namdak. It contains comparisons between the various traditions as well as instructions for practice. It also tells about the Kati channel, the four lamps, and very clearly explains the relationship between Trecko and Thogal.

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/138921378/Lopon-Tenzin-Namdak-Bonpo-Dzogchen-Teachings

 

TI

[RongzomFan]

Your blanket statement that the illusory body is in Bon is not entirely correct.

 

Christian_Ice,

 

Your own quote contradict you.

 

They view the result of tantra as ending in illusory body.

[9th]

http://youtu.be/ojuL6OCvo2A

[Tibetan_Ice]

Christian_Ice,

 

Your own quote contradict you.

 

They view the result of tantra as ending in illusory body.

 

Maybe you should read it again.

[RongzomFan]

Maybe you should read it again.

 

I am telling you to.

 

They view tantra as having to do with Tsongkhapa's definition of illusory body

 

As far as I know, the mother school of the Gelugs, the Sakya, have nothing like Tsongkhapa's illusory body.

[silent thunder]

http://www.rainbowbody.net/Shabkar.htm

 

The root of all that exists, Samsara and nirvana, is one's own mind. Primordially, mind is emptiness.

Merge then into the sky-like absolute expanse,
Empty, luminous, beyond clinging.

Outside, inside, eyes open or closed,
Day night; asleep, awake:
No difference

During practice, after practice,
Mind, appearances;
blend them.

Continuously, without wavering.
Merge completely with this vibrant, sky-like state.

Even if you died right now, you would have no regrets. Death is release into the luminosity of dharmakaya;
Out of the expanse of the absolute body, the body of form arises.

Although on this path, there can be no mistakes,
It is still wiser to avoid complacency.

Once you have achieved stability in meditation, do not remain satisfied with that alone.

If you persist, practicing the instructions to transmute the body of this life into a body of light, you will become like deathless Lotus Born One (the Primordial Buddha).

outside inside

eyes open or closed

 

clear like light

[h.uriahr]

My instincts say, raise vibration by clearing blockage.

Release mind/thought/self.

Clear like light.

 

Advanced Charge Up and Drain Form from Taichitaocenter. Master Liao's finest work IMO.