Is it possible to remain in the Non-dual state and function in the world?

[Karl]

Whether one can function in non-dualism comes down to whether it is possible for a person to function outside the realm of the intellect mind or thought. The mind itself will say that isn't possible because to admit otherwise is to create cracks in its dictatorship over your reality, which is pretty much the default position of the vast majority of humanity, because they live primarily in their minds it is assumed that it isn't possible to live in any other way.

 

But if you go beyond the mind then you have what Nisargadatta Maharaj calls "direct experiencing" where there is no separation between the experience and the experiencer, I believe people like Nisargadatta spent the majority of their awake lives in that place and would talk to people and interact from that place, there may be times when old conditioning took over and times where the dualistic mind is needed to take over but overall I believe those people who are considered "awake" are like the reverse of most people in that their default position is non-duality and occasionally lapse into being controlled by dualistic thinking. While for most of us it is the other way around in that we are "dreaming" or in other word living in our dualistic minds and occasionally get a glimpse of the real reality which is non-dual.

 

To "awaken" is to make a permanent shift out dualistic thinking to some extent, if it were only a temporary thing then it couldn't be accurately compared to waking up out of a dream. In my opinion to have samadhi experiences isn't the same as waking up, it is just a means to put a crack in the vase. 

 

No human functions outside the mind, or without intellect, if by that you are referring to conscious awareness. Reality is reality, there is nothing more to know or learn about it, except to test for it. Conscious awareness is self. If I'm 'aware of myself' then this-I suppose- might represent an idea of dualism, because there are obviously not two selves, but that's just conceptual thought. 'I am aware of this body, chair, cat, thought' is direct perceptive conscious awareness. It is impossible to relapse into dualism because we aren't dual. We made it up, just as we made up non dual. They are not concepts that we can apply to self even if we can create them, they still do not stain the self.

[voidisyinyang]

No human functions outside the mind, or without intellect, if by that you are referring to conscious awareness. Reality is reality, there is nothing more to know or learn about it, except to test for it. Conscious awareness is self. If I'm 'aware of myself' then this-I suppose- might represent an idea of dualism, because there are obviously not two selves, but that's just conceptual thought. 'I am aware of this body, chair, cat, thought' is direct perceptive conscious awareness. It is impossible to relapse into dualism because we aren't dual. We made it up, just as we made up non dual. They are not concepts that we can apply to self even if we can create them, they still do not stain the self.

 

This isn't true - humans can function without conscious awareness - I have given examples already of Poonjaji creating other physical bodies - bilocation - without knowing he was doing so - or the college of Phra Achra Mun in Thailand - levitating without knowing he was doing so.

 

As soon as he became consciously aware he was levitating then his body dropped back down to the floor.

 

So there is "direct perception" as it's called in yoga - it is psychic knowledge and this is done with the ego through the pineal gland.

 

The pineal gland transduces qi information or qi-shen information and then turns that information into conscious awareness - or into the manifestation of  qi energy in the body.

 

The mind in the yoga tradition is Menes as in menstruation - the lunar psychic energy.

 

The real spiritual energy is the formless awareness as the source of light - I call it the spacetime vortex.

 

But the irony again is that a person can manifest abilities from the spiritual source without being aware they are doing so.

 

So the question raised in the OP is can a person be aware of their spiritual abilities - without it being a psychic ego trip - the difference between shakti as spiritual abilities and siddhis as direct perception of the mind.

 

Now realize that neither of these things are left-brain conceptual awareness.

 

For example when I practiced tantra I could read a book while in full lotus and at the same time being having mutual climaxes with females - at a distance. So my left brain conceptual awareness was reading the book while my pineal gland and right brain direct perception was having mutual climaxes with females.

 

Now the two were mutually complementary in that the climaxes cleared out lower emotional negative blockages that otherwise could hinder mental focus. To have a strong mental focus for speed reading your mind can not be "possessed" by lower emotional blockages - which is to say to have a thought circling in the head based on an emotional blockage of anger, fear, sadness.

 

that is what makes tantra different is because lust is a lower emotional blockage and so obviously in a psychic mutual climax there is that thought of desire but since it is an internal climax it actually reduces stress instead of increasing stress which is the ultimate effect of ejaculation.

 

But in nonduality training instead of consciously sublimating sexual energy - the person represses the sexuality - and indeed represses all conceptual thought of the lower emotions - represses it by logically inferring it's all based on the I-thought and so just the I-thought should be focused on.

 

This is called the "direct path" because you turn the left-brain conceptual thought around to its source - so you still have left-brain focus but the only conceptual thought is the only self-transcending conceptual thought - the I-thought itself.

 

The I- thought has no signifier and does not signify anything - and so it is the key to transcend the dualistic structure of phonetic-based language.

 

It's just that advaita nondualism does not define this in terms of complementary opposites, instead it's taught that the I-I awareness rises out of the right side of the heart. This I-I is then the embodiment of infinity as formless awareness - a contained symmetrically logic of infinity - a tautological structure.

 

Whereas say for Milarepa when he was in deep samadhi then his energy was increased or fed by the cosmic goddesses - the dakinis - so it was still a tantric relationship - and we could say that formless awareness itself is a female source of infinity - and so the complementary opposite dynamics are preserved to the end. I call this the female formless awareness or in Taoism - the Emptiness is the Wu Chi - the mystery of the valley - that is again this secret right side of the heart.

 

The key here is that even the yuan shen visions of the astral realm are not the goal of this training - nor is using the energy by the mind but in reality since the yuan qi is the focus as the goal of the path - then this energy will overflow and affect reality as much as other people also tune into it.

 

And so someone like Nisargadatta - I do not trust his training at all. Poonjaji said that Nisargadatta had the correct philosophy but he did not manifest any shakti energy - the same with Krishnamurti. So while Nisaragadatta may have had some results in his training - if he had really achieved the sahaja samadhi state then the shakti energy would have manifested naturally.

 

The thing that has to be realized is that the mind is very weak on its own - that is why the kundalini energy is necessary and so the body has to be purified. Otherwise the mind will just stay in the conceptual realm - only when the qi energy is built up does the mind have the power to really stay focused.

 

And so we can say that the mind - the spiritual ego also includes the astral realms and the yuan shen energy - and for it to have power - for it to manifest shaktis - then that yuan shen spirit light has to return to its source in the Yuan Qi energy - and this recharges the yuan shen - it actually increases the light energy.  that process will manifest shakti in such a way that it will inherently heal and balance blockages because it resonates from the source of reality. It doesn't matter if the mind had the intention of healing or not - all that is needed is the intention to go into the Emptiness and when in the Emptiness the mind is not aware of what takes place but when out of the Emptiness the mind is made aware and the answer is given and the healing occurs.

 

The unified triad is then never an isolated consideration - is it the ego doing it? There is no escape from the mind in the sense that the Emptiness will manifest into the spiritual light as mental insight or prajna - even though it is still not conceptual consciousness or words in the head. By the time of words in the head then it is the yuan jing energy - the physical energy - or as the unified triad - the tamas, rajas and sattva. In other words - these are temporary states of energy but yet they will eternally cycle as complementary opposites, as long as the Emptiness is maintained as the intentional focus of the practice.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[Karl]

This isn't true - humans can function without conscious awareness - I have given examples already of Poonjaji creating other physical bodies - bilocation - without knowing he was doing so - or the college of Phra Achra Mun in Thailand - levitating without knowing he was doing so.

 

As soon as he became consciously aware he was levitating then his body dropped back down to the floor.

 

So there is "direct perception" as it's called in yoga - it is psychic knowledge and this is done with the ego through the pineal gland.

 

The pineal gland transduces qi information or qi-shen information and then turns that information into conscious awareness - or into the manifestation of  qi energy in the body.

 

The mind in the yoga tradition is Menes as in menstruation - the lunar psychic energy.

 

The real spiritual energy is the formless awareness as the source of light - I call it the spacetime vortex.

 

But the irony again is that a person can manifest abilities from the spiritual source without being aware they are doing so.

 

So the question raised in the OP is can a person be aware of their spiritual abilities - without it being a psychic ego trip - the difference between shakti as spiritual abilities and siddhis as direct perception of the mind.

 

Now realize that neither of these things are left-brain conceptual awareness.

 

For example when I practiced tantra I could read a book while in full lotus and at the same time being having mutual climaxes with females - at a distance. So my left brain conceptual awareness was reading the book while my pineal gland and right brain direct perception was having mutual climaxes with females.

 

Now the two were mutually complementary in that the climaxes cleared out lower emotional negative blockages that otherwise could hinder mental focus. To have a strong mental focus for speed reading your mind can not be "possessed" by lower emotional blockages - which is to say to have a thought circling in the head based on an emotional blockage of anger, fear, sadness.

 

that is what makes tantra different is because lust is a lower emotional blockage and so obviously in a psychic mutual climax there is that thought of desire but since it is an internal climax it actually reduces stress instead of increasing stress which is the ultimate effect of ejaculation.

 

But in nonduality training instead of consciously sublimating sexual energy - the person represses the sexuality - and indeed represses all conceptual thought of the lower emotions - represses it by logically inferring it's all based on the I-thought and so just the I-thought should be focused on.

 

This is called the "direct path" because you turn the left-brain conceptual thought around to its source - so you still have left-brain focus but the only conceptual thought is the only self-transcending conceptual thought - the I-thought itself.

 

The I- thought has no signifier and does not signify anything - and so it is the key to transcend the dualistic structure of phonetic-based language.

 

It's just that advaita nondualism does not define this in terms of complementary opposites, instead it's taught that the I-I awareness rises out of the right side of the heart. This I-I is then the embodiment of infinity as formless awareness - a contained symmetrically logic of infinity - a tautological structure.

 

Whereas say for Milarepa when he was in deep samadhi then his energy was increased or fed by the cosmic goddesses - the dakinis - so it was still a tantric relationship - and we could say that formless awareness itself is a female source of infinity - and so the complementary opposite dynamics are preserved to the end. I call this the female formless awareness or in Taoism - the Emptiness is the Wu Chi - the mystery of the valley - that is again this secret right side of the heart.

 

The key here is that even the yuan shen visions of the astral realm are not the goal of this training - nor is using the energy by the mind but in reality since the yuan qi is the focus as the goal of the path - then this energy will overflow and affect reality as much as other people also tune into it.

 

And so someone like Nisargadatta - I do not trust his training at all. Poonjaji said that Nisargadatta had the correct philosophy but he did not manifest any shakti energy - the same with Krishnamurti. So while Nisaragadatta may have had some results in his training - if he had really achieved the sahaja samadhi state then the shakti energy would have manifested naturally.

 

The thing that has to be realized is that the mind is very weak on its own - that is why the kundalini energy is necessary and so the body has to be purified. Otherwise the mind will just stay in the conceptual realm - only when the qi energy is built up does the mind have the power to really stay focused.

 

And so we can say that the mind - the spiritual ego also includes the astral realms and the yuan shen energy - and for it to have power - for it to manifest shaktis - then that yuan shen spirit light has to return to its source in the Yuan Qi energy - and this recharges the yuan shen - it actually increases the light energy.  that process will manifest shakti in such a way that it will inherently heal and balance blockages because it resonates from the source of reality. It doesn't matter if the mind had the intention of healing or not - all that is needed is the intention to go into the Emptiness and when in the Emptiness the mind is not aware of what takes place but when out of the Emptiness the mind is made aware and the answer is given and the healing occurs.

 

The unified triad is then never an isolated consideration - is it the ego doing it? There is no escape from the mind in the sense that the Emptiness will manifest into the spiritual light as mental insight or prajna - even though it is still not conceptual consciousness or words in the head. By the time of words in the head then it is the yuan jing energy - the physical energy - or as the unified triad - the tamas, rajas and sattva. In other words - these are temporary states of energy but yet they will eternally cycle as complementary opposites, as long as the Emptiness is maintained as the intentional focus of the practice.

 

The human body can function without conscious awareness, we do so in deep, dreamless sleep when we are said to be unconscious. There is nothing contradictory there. That is not the argument.

 

Awareness and consciousness does not exist apart from the physical body. You are saying it is prior to the body and therefore prior to physical reality and so existent apart from reality. That is clearly illogical. If there is nothing to be conscious of, then there is no need for consciousness.

 

We can rabbit on all day about the 'I' thought. It is only an expression of conscious self awareness. In deep dreamless less sleep there is no 'I' thought yet the concrete reality of things continues to exist regardless. Awareness is present, but not consciousness. There is nothing special here either. That's exactly how we experience it. When we are conscious we get direct perception and conceptual thought.

 

It's quite difficult to try and explain that which is most obvious. It's as if you are saying that it couldn't be that obvious and so you have to imply some complex concepts which better suit what you want to believe. Its as if you wish to paint the Lilly or Gild gold. To create your own version of reality instead of observing what is real.

 

The problem is that if you deny reality then the false conceptual reality will eventually conflict. If you believe that the red traffic light signal is green then you get into a road accident. It does not matter how much you convince yourself it was green because reality has given the signal it isn't to be messed with. This causes suffering. You can go an entire lifetime believing your own story which is in conflict with the facts.

 

If you convince yourself a man, unaided and in full contradiction to physical laws; levitated, walked on water, or was in two places at the same time, then you are denying reality. If you say you are dual, non dual or any other such thing, then you deny reality. You must accept reality first, but you can only do so when you have the capacity to determine it, if you deny that capacity then you remain with Alice in the rabbit hole. Know the rope from the snake. There isn't any trick to it. It's the natural state.

 

 

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

Karl - I'm sorry I didn't realize at first that you're a greater spiritual master than Ramana Maharshi! haha.

 

 

Awareness and consciousness does not exist apart from the physical body.

 

This claim by you is truly a wrong understanding of nondualism.

 

Formless awareness is what everything else exists within - and so it's not dependent on any physical body.

 

But still this is the whole problem with the nondualism philosophy - it is so easily co-opted and misunderstood as some conceptual mind game.

 

I've met several people like this - the white male meditation dudes - one guy his sister was a student of Poonjaji - directly in India - but then he got so convinced of his nondual enlightened state - a stuck conceptual realm as you are in - that his other sister declared the dude to be schizophrenic and so he was put into a state residential building and put on psychotropics. Last time I saw him - he said the drugs really didn't affect him and he would go hang out in the same hippy bohemian burn out joints that he'd been in previously.

 

Anyway another white male meditation dude in that same scene told he how he had gone a whole day without thinking - just walking around.

 

I didn't point out to him that as Master Nan, Hui-chin says - to think you are not thinking is itself just another concept about not-thinking.

 

So Vivekananda stated that Jnana yoga - the mind yoga of vichara as nondualism - is the highest and hardest level of yoga. Yet the  Western white male enlightenment scene is so egotistical this most difficult path is turned around into some mind trip conceptual game.

 

Ramana Maharshi emphasized that repeating the I-thought is not some route repetition practice as you have mislabeled it - instead repeating the I-thought is an investigation to its source and so as progress is made then the space between thoughts does increase.

 

Poonjaji stated this clearly - that the first step of nondualism is to focus on this space between thoughts.

 

As for formless awareness being dependent on a physical body - as you have stated - that goes against Ramana Maharshi saying that even the whole physical universe is an illusion since it is temporary while only formless awareness remains.

 

Again nondualism as a philosophy makes this very unclear due to the symmetric dualistic structure of phonetic language.

 

In actuality the formless awareness as Emptiness is the eternal process of resonance of complementary opposite energies.

 

So as for deep dreamless sleep - to be aware of that state is to see the light that emanates from the heart - but this state is achieved in nirvikalpa samadhi which is the first stage of real vichara investigation. Again nirvikalpa samadhi is an advanced meditation state - the body's qi or prana channels all have to be open to achieve it. That's why full lotus is a great test of the progress in your meditation. Yes even if mind meditation is advocated - the body's channels should open as a sign of the progress of mind meditation.

 

So yeah I realize you are beyond all this gobly gook of thousands of years of yoga meditation tradition in India - you've found the new white male Westernized Neo-advaita path of instant conceptual enlightenment. haha. No one can shake you from the real truth you live in.

 

Congratulations!

[ChiForce]

Karl - I'm sorry I didn't realize at first that you're a greater spiritual master than Ramana Maharshi! haha.

 

 

 

This claim by you is truly a wrong understanding of nondualism.

 

Formless awareness is what everything else exists within - and so it's not dependent on any physical body.

 

But still this is the whole problem with the nondualism philosophy - it is so easily co-opted and misunderstood as some conceptual mind game.

 

I've met several people like this - the white male meditation dudes - one guy his sister was a student of Poonjaji - directly in India - but then he got so convinced of his nondual enlightened state - a stuck conceptual realm as you are in - that his other sister declared the dude to be schizophrenic and so he was put into a state residential building and put on psychotropics. Last time I saw him - he said the drugs really didn't affect him and he would go hang out in the same hippy bohemian burn out joints that he'd been in previously.

 

Anyway another white male meditation dude in that same scene told he how he had gone a whole day without thinking - just walking around.

 

I didn't point out to him that as Master Nan, Hui-chin says - to think you are not thinking is itself just another concept about not-thinking.

 

So Vivekananda stated that Jnana yoga - the mind yoga of vichara as nondualism - is the highest and hardest level of yoga. Yet the  Western white male enlightenment scene is so egotistical this most difficult path is turned around into some mind trip conceptual game.

 

Ramana Maharshi emphasized that repeating the I-thought is not some route repetition practice as you have mislabeled it - instead repeating the I-thought is an investigation to its source and so as progress is made then the space between thoughts does increase.

 

Poonjaji stated this clearly - that the first step of nondualism is to focus on this space between thoughts.

 

As for formless awareness being dependent on a physical body - as you have stated - that goes against Ramana Maharshi saying that even the whole physical universe is an illusion since it is temporary while only formless awareness remains.

 

Again nondualism as a philosophy makes this very unclear due to the symmetric dualistic structure of phonetic language.

 

In actuality the formless awareness as Emptiness is the eternal process of resonance of complementary opposite energies.

 

So as for deep dreamless sleep - to be aware of that state is to see the light that emanates from the heart - but this state is achieved in nirvikalpa samadhi which is the first stage of real vichara investigation. Again nirvikalpa samadhi is an advanced meditation state - the body's qi or prana channels all have to be open to achieve it. That's why full lotus is a great test of the progress in your meditation. Yes even if mind meditation is advocated - the body's channels should open as a sign of the progress of mind meditation.

 

So yeah I realize you are beyond all this gobly gook of thousands of years of yoga meditation tradition in India - you've found the new white male Westernized Neo-advaita path of instant conceptual enlightenment. haha. No one can shake you from the real truth you live in.

 

Congratulations!

I think you are wasting your time.  Karl is a new member and I think he should sit back and read some more, instead of trying to discredit various cultivation methods as fancy beliefs and etc.  Very simple minded.  I think all the discussions should be stopped if someone is claiming to know what is the non-duality state without knowing what is a samadhi.

[Karl]

I know and accept my intellectual poverty, fallibility and lack of developed rationality. I learned to become a lover of reality, to begin developing the tool of reason which I had left to rot in some corner of my mind whilst I fantasised other worlds. I have learned to tend it, to accept the pain and effort it extracts, to cherish and maintain it at all costs.

 

I do not live in truth. I search for reality. Like a squirrel testing for a rotten nut. Neither am I enlightened, non dual, dual or any such thing. I have not been on a path, because there isn't one. Reality is the only goal and then I began to see for the very first time what I had hidden from myself for years. To see what a flower looks, smells and feels like without the mental hash and fantasy.

 

That is what I will sit down and discuss with you. A shared love of reality. To see the world as it is and not through the clouded lens of false ego. To engage directly and fearlessly with reality.

[Karl]

I think you are wasting your time.  Karl is a new member and I think he should sit back and read some more, instead of trying to discredit various cultivation methods as fancy beliefs and etc.  Very simple minded.  I think all the discussions should be stopped if someone is claiming to know what is the non-duality state without knowing what is a samadhi.

 

I only wish to discuss, to engage to seek reality and dispel fantasy and fear. I have no need cultivation methods. I have read far too much already, many thousands of books. I filled my mind up with words to remember, all concepts.

[Marblehead]

I have read far too much already, many thousands of books.

I call that "information overload".  Eventually it all starts getting mixed up.

 

Duality and non-duality are mental concepts but they can be related to the realms of Tao if done cautiously.

[Karl]

I call that "information overload".  Eventually it all starts getting mixed up.

 

Duality and non-duality are mental concepts but they can be related to the realms of Tao if done cautiously.

 

Eventually it is seen for what it is :-)

 

There is no need to relate to any realms.

 

If you hold in your hands a ball, then you hold a ball. If you then proceed to look for a ball, then I can only point out the obvious. You already have a ball. Am I then a fool because you insist there is no ball ?

 

If you tell me there is a magic, multi coloured unicorn hiding under the bushes at the bottom of my garden, then what do I care? I was never looking for a unicorn. I am happy for you that you enjoy it.

 

 

[Marblehead]

What a response!!!  How to respond?

Eventually it is seen for what it is :-)

Or not.

 

There is no need to relate to any realms.

Perhaps your physicality runs deeper than does mine.

 

If you hold in your hands a ball, then you hold a ball. If you then proceed to look for a ball, then I can only point out the obvious. You already have a ball.

If I were to hold the ball and then wonder where the ball was I would likely have been eating too many mushrooms.

 

Am I then a fool because you insist there is no ball ?

No.  But then, perhaps "fool" is too strong a word?  Were this to happen I would likely again have been eating too many mushrooms.

 

If you tell me there is a magic, multi coloured unicorn hiding under the bushes at the bottom of my garden, then what do I care? I was never looking for a unicorn. I am happy for you that you enjoy it.

This is important.  Some people look for the multi-colored unicorn.  It might be said that they are wasting their time but who are we to say that they have no need to seek out the unicorn?  They either find it, realize that it doesn't exist, or continue their search until the end of their days.

 

But I will suggest that the continued seeking will never allow for peace and contentment to enter their inner essence.

[3bob]

Btw, several types of mushrooms are good for you health wise, while others not so much thus choose carefully when looking in the garden.   (and surely don't forget to thank the mushrooms you harvest and eat)

Edited July 9, 2015 by 3bob

[Karl]

It is no business of mine if they are searching for that which does not exist. I wish them well in their quest :-)

 

If, on the other hand they say they are searching for that which they already are, then surely it's impolite not to point out they are most certainly exactly what they are looking for. Unless that isn't what they are really looking for, in which case perhaps I should just point out the unicorn. :-)

 

 

[Marblehead]

Yes, pointing to the unicorn might help.  Most would likely just look at your finger though.

[forestofemptiness]

I would argue it is the other way around. In consciousness studies, there is the "methodological problem." The methodological problem is that the study of consciousness is done in the light of consciousness. There is no way to study consciousness apart from consciousness. 

 

The body, as we perceive it, is an object of consciousness. There may be an unknown outside of consciousness that generates the perception of the body and also consciousness, but it is unknown.

 

Because the body is an object of consciousness, saying that it generates consciousness is like seeing a projector in a movie and saying that the projector creates the movie. Of course it doesn't. Now there may be a projector outside of the movie creating the movie and the projector, but at this point, I don't think that's verifiable. 

 

 

The human body can function without conscious awareness, we do so in deep, dreamless sleep when we are said to be unconscious. There is nothing contradictory there. That is not the argument. Awareness and consciousness does not exist apart from the physical body. You are saying it is prior to the body and therefore prior to physical reality and so existent apart from reality. That is clearly illogical. 

[Karl]

I would argue it is the other way around. In consciousness studies, there is the "methodological problem." The methodological problem is that the study of consciousness is done in the light of consciousness. There is no way to study consciousness apart from consciousness. 

 

The body, as we perceive it, is an object of consciousness. There may be an unknown outside of consciousness that generates the perception of the body and also consciousness, but it is unknown.

 

Because the body is an object of consciousness, saying that it generates consciousness is like seeing a projector in a movie and saying that the projector creates the movie. Of course it doesn't. Now there may be a projector outside of the movie creating the movie and the projector, but at this point, I don't think that's verifiable. 

 

There isn't anything controversial about either the first or second paragraphs. Although I would wonder why you wished to study consciousness in that respect.

 

The body does not 'generate' consciousness. That isn't what I said. I said it did not exist apart from the body as a separate form. Neither does consciousness generate anything else, it is in effect passive.

[Bud Jetsun]

Even the best authors book or the most wise man's words can only be construct delusions if they are in word form rather than the realization itself.

 

The purpose of meditation or 'practic' is realization of the nature of reality.

 

The realization does not require a given race or instructors training or ancient rituals, those are just potential tools from someone else's path.

 

The realizations are all available to every conciousness at this moment of now should they choose, no book or teacher or chant or vows needed. Discovery of what to realize is the challenge words can't help you with, as they can only hold human delusions of constructs, interpretation and conotation. If words could do it we could all just read a paragraph and awaken.

 

To argue details about the arrangements of words or styles of practice or belief sets is like proclaiming the virtues or strength of ones own imaginary friend vs someone elses imaginary friend. It's still all equally delusion fixated thought if it can be expressed through external means.

 

Recognize you inherently always had perfect mindfulness, and that it's only an illusion of ego that gives rise to your thoughts running by themselves, as nobody else can be thinking your thoughts for you. Use realization of perfect mindfulness to conclude practice for practice sake, and push for liberating realization.

 

I had no awareness of eastern religion beyond than that some guys sat around in colored robes. With no teacher, no books to quote other folks delusions from, and no awareness anyone else even bothered to ponder the nature of reality, the core truths in Buddhism were realized.

 

Awareness of the ego, and meeting the ego and the subconscious further guided realization.

 

Awareness that only this one moment of now is real, and that in this moment one can not contain thought and remain experiencing the now, as the thought has a beginning, middle, and end like everything else.

 

Oneness is inherent to the limit of a humans feeble ability to know it, as we only have our own perception experience at that moment, all the rest is illusion we pile ontop covering the infinitely blissfully worry free state of Being inherent to the nature of all types of conciousness.

 

Religion means re-link. The link is your mind linking awareness of the always present the natural state. This can only happen through realization, and no two paths to this realization can be alike.

 

These realizations occured just through stumbling in the dark exploring the nature of reality.

 

It wasn't until I felt so overflowing with joy I wanted to share that I wrote some realizations down and shared them with others. It was only then that a friend mentioned I should find some Buddhist philosophy to read, as someone else had already kindly wrote them down and did a much more elegant job. I then became immediately grateful of reality Wisdom in Eastern religions already being written down relieving my own need to write.

 

The portions of religion that aren't about making the realizations of the nature of reality are delusion/distraction. One requires nothing more than looking inward with realization of perfect mindfulness to recognize the liberation one always had, but could not perceive because choosing to perceive the illusion of ego.

 

With unlimited Love,

-Bud

[Karl]

It's interesting that we confuse the error we can make about the nature of things, with that of the reality of things. It is entirely different and yet we treat it as the same. If we think the Sun goes around the Earth, then this is simply a theoretical error, but if we believe the Sun is a God, or that the Sun only exists in subjective consciousness, then we make an error of reality.

 

Like you, it was only when I began to explore reality that I dispelled the errors I made about reality. I will happily continue to make theoretical errors and to experiment to expose them, but they do not impinge on my love of reality, and it is that love which is pure. To love what is, in every moment, without question or condition, yet to accept that there will also be liking and disliking . Then that is an end of suffering.

 

I find that it must be continually worked at. That it is not enough to say, or believe a thing, it must also be done. Maybe this is the essence of the Lord's Prayer. 'Thy 'will' be done on earth as it is in heaven'. That you must engage your will, not only in thought, but also in deed. Thy 'will' is conscious reasoning it is free will. The ability to choose.

[Marblehead]

You got a little too religious for me in that post but I still liked what you said.

[allinone]

Non-duality has no conditions. You don't realize it or attain it because you can't, it would defy the non-duality and it couldn't be called non-duality then anymore.

 

Choosing is a function what arises from discrimination. So its up to you if you believe in free will or not since it arises from conditions.

If you have a thought "i want to do this", you are holding some kind of bias already. Because of not seeing what is your bias you are wandering around aimlessly thinking that the things you do is what "you" have chosen.

[3bob]

a "you can't" also falls under the same quandary...

[Seeker of Wisdom]

[...]Because the body is an object of consciousness, saying that it generates consciousness is like seeing a projector in a movie and saying that the projector creates the movie.[...]

I don't think the body creates consciousness either, but purely to be argumentative - IMHO here you are mixing up ontology and epistemology. It is theoretically possible for A to cause B (ontology), and for A to be unknowable until B exists (epistemology). How something comes to exist and how something comes to be knowable are two different issues.

[Karl]

You got a little too religious for me in that post but I still liked what you said.

 

:-) I couldn't help seeing the similarity-not that I am religious in any way except for cleaning my teeth, which I do twice a day.

[Karl]

I don't think the body creates consciousness either, but purely to be argumentative - IMHO here you are mixing up ontology and epistemology. It is theoretically possible for A to cause B (ontology), and for A to be unknowable until B exists (epistemology). How something comes to exist and how something comes to be knowable are two different issues.

 

I like it here :-)

[Marblehead]

a "you can't" also falls under the same quandary...

And I dislike "you can't do that" very much.  It is used to keep down; to keep them from growing; to keep them from bettering themselves.

[allinone]

Is it the moment, i admit defeat and ingest the soar pill?

 

Its impossible to imagine perfection. I regret using the word non-dual, i hate myself..