loving and loss

[ilumairen]

That is an interesting way to put it. I like this way of putting it, but perhaps it is to be considered to describe the expereince of the effect that applying negative mind-weight has on an experience rather than the mind-weight itself? And in that sense it is an attribute of an experience, or perhaps an experience in itself.

 

Now I'm confused by what an experience really is and what attributes an experience can have.. Hopefully this confusion is leads to understanding somehow.

 

What is meant with experience and attributes of an experience?

I'm confused too.

 

:half an hour of watching the wind make the leaves and flowers dance:

 

So, I think our natural state is a fluid one, and 'mind weight' applies to any thoughts or thought process we hold that causes us to forget this natural state. In my understanding these could be positive thoughts as well. So is it stagnation in the mind that is being pointed to with the word suffering?

 

If experience is nothing more than being one of the ten thousand things mutually arising and interacting with the other ten thousand things then there would be nothing that could be 'outside of' this - even forgetting our fluid nature.

 

:shaking my head in the same way I push the power button on my computer - hoping the reboot will stop the long running script that is locking everything up:

 

Experience is. Attributes are this experience stripped down to bits of what is. And mind weight are the things we tell ourselves about whatever experience.

 

I fall and break my foot. This is experience.

There is physical pain. This is an attribute.

I get upset over what I now can't do. This is mind weight.

 

My Putty cat dies. This is experience.

There is emotional pain. This is an attribute.

I get lost in my sense of loss. This is mind weight.

 

 

So deconstructed like this, pain is only an attribute. It is mind weight that causes suffering.

 

But in my most likely flawed understanding of Buddhism I'm supposed to avoid the attribute of emotional pain through non-attachment. Where as I have a preference to love, and accept emotional pain when/if it arises.

 

As always, thank you.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Des

[ilumairen]

It is certainly bad to be attached to the idea of non-attachment, for that is an attachment itself. But as is often with these perhaps that is the last attachment that should be erradicated if one is on the path towards non-attachment.

 

And what was the masters intention with braking the cup? I think this story illustrates that even the greatest of masters are probably not perfect, but aside from that, the master might've broken the cup as a symbolic gesture to destroy the attachemnt in it's mind. It can be interepreted in many ways, and i think any interpretion should teach us something. Though we can't possible see every interpretion i think it's good to widen ones view and try to find as many interpretions as possible. Then there is teh quesiton of what sort of interpretions and lessons one is read for in life. When on needs to understand the fallacy of attachment to non-attchment then perhaps one makes that interpretion and i think that is an important lesson.

 

Years ago I overdosed on religion and philosophy. The underlying theme of many was rising above the human condition. It was fascinating, and at first quite enjoyable, but eventually I just wanted to move my feet. I came to the conclusion that this rising above created it's own series of issues... this is the place I was in when I came across this story. And it shows. Haha

 

Thanks for sharing your (not so weary) thoughts.

 

I'm still keeping my favorite cup though.

 

 

 

[AussieTrees]

Experience is strongly aligned to memory,this is our personal diary.

Insight helps us manage our emotions,which is helpful in reducing our self created suffering.

 

Self created suffering will continue it's torment until we achieve acceptance.

Attachments distort us,especially when there is a loss,or change in our relationships.

 

We all have possessions and relationships,this is a good thing,but these are also attachments.

Understanding impermanence is helpful when the time comes,'to let go'.

 

Understanding these points is gradual and developes,understanding these points are at play with others is empathy.

Reading Buddha history and teachings will reveal a valuable psychology lesson,also very calming.

 

Please enjoy your life as no one else can.If this is not happening stop and have an honest personal review.

We achieve change quickly when change is our choice.

[manitou]

This is a lovely thread.

 

Keeping the proximity of  death in our consciousness adds to our awareness of life and beauty.  It keeps us from taking beautiful life for granted.   I recently read Eckhart Tolle saying that the society that hides death behind doors (such as the Western society) is a very shallow society indeed.

 

Perhaps this explains our Western shallowness and attachment to meaningless physical phenomena.

 

Love to everyone who has lost dear pets and loved ones.  The day I had to put my horse down left a hole in my heart that I can still feel is there, however there is no longer any pain when I think of her.  I still have a swatch of her tail that I take out of a little wooden box and smell once in a while.  A little tear of golden sweetness is what comes to my eye now.

 

I listened to an Anthony Demello CD today, and related the lack of attachments to 'passing through the eye of a needle'.  Too many attachments, it's not possible to get through there.  Ask the camel.

Edited October 10, 2015 by manitou

[ilumairen]

 

Experience is strongly aligned to memory,this is our personal diary.

 

The less experience is aligned to memory, the more open and genuine it becomes in my experience (and memory there of haha).

 

Insight helps us manage our emotions,which is helpful in reducing our self created suffering.

 

For me adding the mind weight of thinking my emotions need to be managed adds strength to the emotion and inhibits the natural falling away of said emotion.

But I understand, and accept, that your approach may be different.

 

Self created suffering will continue it's torment until we achieve acceptance.

 

This I completely agree with.

 

 

Attachments distort us,especially when there is a loss,or change in our relationships.

We all have possessions and relationships,this is a good thing,but these are also attachments.

 

Here I am unsure... It is the word 'distort'...

 

 

Understanding impermanence is helpful when the time comes,'to let go'.

 

Yes. I'm ok. I used 'lost in a sense of loss' only to illustrate my thought process regarding the idea of suffering. If that were to happen it would be due to my placement of mind weight.

 

I see this happen often, and am sharing my experience so that perhaps 'other' can realize they are ok too. (irl I am not nearly so verbose)

 

Thank you for practicing loving kindness with me. I am grateful for it.

[ilumairen]

Please enjoy your life as no one else can.If this is not happening stop and have an honest personal review.

We achieve change quickly when change is our choice.

 

This is worth repeating.

Again, thank you.

[ilumairen]

This is a lovely thread.

 

Keeping the proximity of  death in our consciousness adds to our awareness of life and beauty.  It keeps us from taking beautiful life for granted.   I recently read Eckhart Tolle saying that the society that hides death behind doors (such as the Western society) is a very shallow society indeed.

 

Perhaps this explains our Western shallowness and attachment to meaningless physical phenomena.

 

Love to everyone who has lost dear pets and loved ones.  The day I had to put my horse down left a hole in my heart that I can still feel is there, however there is no longer any pain when I think of her.  I still have a swatch of her tail that I take out of a little wooden box and smell once in a while.  A little tear of golden sweetness is what comes to my eye now.

 

I listened to an Anthony Demello CD today, and related the lack of attachments to 'passing through the eye of a needle'.  Too many attachments, it's not possible to get through there.  Ask the camel.

 

Love to you as well manitou, and thank for sharing your experience.

[hagar]

I feel you, and understand what you mean.

 

I had to take my cat to the vet 3 days ago, and put him to rest. He had gotten a terminal illness, and his health was rapidly declining. 

I was there when he got his injection. It broke my heart. Innocent.

 

Seeing the light in his eyes slowly going out. He trusted me. 

Going up the stairs to take him with me I broke out in tears. 

 

A little loving spark in the universe. One moment there, then he fades out, and is forever gone.

 

h

[steve]

My once strong, handsome, and demanding cat is in the final stages of dying. He is none of those things that once could easily be used to define him. This is the way of slow death. There is no comforting thought of at least he didn't suffer. There is only doing what I can to make him as comfortable as possible.

Yesterday I held the water bowl so he could drink. Last night was the first time in all the years we spent together that he turned away from food. Today he is incapable of getting up to greet me, so I sit with him.

Last night my SO asked if I was sad. I said yes. He said we knew this time was coming. And I replied yes again, and then added we also knew I would be sad. He said, 'Putty was a good cat.' I gave him a look before we both laughed and agreed that no, he wasn't, but he was cool all the same.

He is still here, and already gone at the same time.

But this is why I am not a Buddhist. I am ok with the moments of suffering that come from attachment. I am human. I love, I lose, I suffer, and I laugh.

 

My mother in law was sick for about a year. She and her eldest daughter fought against the illness fiercely as my wife and I watched the futile struggle. We respected her wishes and supported her the best we could. It was terrible to visit her and see this frail person, already dead but for the wires and tubes, the beeping and swooshing, the flashing lights, and sterile clinicians coming in and out, focused on data without even noticing the person beneath it all.

 

When the end came and the decision was finally made to unplug the technology, I watched as everyone's attention could finally tear away from the monitors and look at mom, long since dead, and finally allowed to rest. It was so utterly peaceful and beautiful to see the acceptance of the inevitable, to hear the silence and feel the stillness, and to feel the sadness and loss. I held her hand and whispered to her to have an easy journey and that I loved her. 

 

We will always have moments of suffering that come from attachment as long as we are human. Being OK with those moments is perhaps the highest level of practice, no matter what you choose to call it. 

[ilumairen]

He trusted me.

 

h

 

With good reason Hagar. You did not let him down.