SecretGrotto

As an ageing male I have recently focused a lot on boosting the kidneys as follows: Jing -> Yin + Yang -> Grasp Qi -> Store Qi 1) Replenish jing and yin jing with Goji. 2) Replenish yang jing with Cinnamon. 3) Balance yin and yang with He Shou Wu. 4) Grasp and retain qi with Walnut. 5) Store qi with Schizandra. Dean Rehmannia says that available Qi protects the Jing, so I understand it as Qi being a more readily used form of energy. Schizandra is an astringent so it helps to store the Qi that is produced through the interaction of Yin and Yang, after Walnut grasped the Qi that arose from the sufficient Yin and Yang bolstered by Goji and Cinnamon and brought into balance by He Shou Wu. Using the Walnut produces a very distinct sensation, which is different from the sensation of Yin and Yang replenishing. Walnut grasps the Qi and it causes an unusual warmth just beneath the surface of the skin. On the scalp it feels like it is feeding the hair follicles and circulating through the brain. Taking Cinnamon to replenish Kidney Yang feels like a more usual type of heat, like you are just hot. The feeling from Qi is different, since it's heat is more calm and healing.

Here is Paramahamsa Prajnananda, the current head of one of the first lineages I was initiated in, namely Kriya Yoga, with a message for the International day of Yoga: https://learn.kriya.org/video/message-for-international-day-of-yoga Look at the light in his eyes, watch how he almost does not blink. I attended a practice session in Sydney where they use his audio tapes as guidance through the first kriya. The energy in that room was palpable and I experienced spontaneous movements.

I'm excited about Goji berries and Schizandra, it has worked tremendously for me. Dr. Tso-Cheng Chang, 80 years young and owner of Dr. Chang’s Farm in Whately, Mass., home one of the largest bean sprout factories in the U.S. Here, Dr. Chang stands with one of Dr. Chang’s Farm’s other main crops, schizandra berries. Recently featured on the Dr. Oz Show, schizandra berry supports healthy energy, vitality, cell function, calming relaxation, mental clarity, stamina, immunity, detoxification, reproduction and digestion.

Songtsan, you're missing the following: Cinnamon (Kidney Yang support) Schizandria (Kidney Qi support and grasping) Wallnuts (Kidney Qi support and grasping) He Shou Wu (Kidney Yin and Yang support) You do have Goji, which is good for Kidney Jing and Kidney Yin support. I'm 30 now and experienced in the past couple of years the classic symptoms of Kidney Yin/Yang/Jing deficiency as a male. I've used a lot of supplements and diets to experiment, and lots of noots, but what made the absolute biggest impact on my health was 50g Goji berries a day. As you can see my emphasis now is pretty much to build from the base of the energetic system, namely the Kidneys. Based on Kevin Wallbridge's suggestion I don't use Ginseng or any other herbs that cannot be used every day. I prefer to eat the whole foods like Goji, Schizandria and Walnuts and I use Cinnamon in my tea a couple times a day. It's making a huge difference. My cold limbs are warm again, I feel like I'm 16 again in certain departments, if you know what I mean.

Brilliant, thanks so much Kevin, I welcome your posts.

I definitely get loose stools with one tsp prepared Foti powder as tea per day, but only for the first week or so, then the loose stools subside. Kevin, I just love your posts, you must make very interesting talk around the dinner table. What does it mean when they say the kidneys open in the ears, and which textbooks would you recommend to get such wisdom from?

Wow, you really know your stuff, thanks for the detailed analysis. So no daily Ginseng and Cordyceps then? Thanks for that, my wallet looked scared before. Will too much He Shou Wu at a young age also shorten your life?

I also use He Shou Wu and Goji berries daily, but swallow 4 tbsp/day of chopped raw ginger for dealing with phlegm that may arise. I also drink a shot of Aloe bitter/day to help the liver/gallbladder. To be honest, I have no idea what I'm doing, but my health and vitality has improved greatly since I've been using this combo. I'd add garlic too, but the smell issue makes it not sustainable, ginger is a very good substitute though. I'm just waiting to for local Ginseng stock to be replenished and then I'll add Korean Ginseng to my He Shou Wu tea as well. And when I have some money to throw away one day I'll get some Cordyceps supplements as well. Zhan Zhuang twice a day for 10 minutes helps maintain my meridian health, which is also invaluable overall.

What is the official terminology for the spiritual eye in Taoist literature? Where can I read more on the Taoist interpretation of this vision? My interpretation of the spiritual eye, which may be wrong or superficial. "The Trinity is reflected as spiritual-physical feature in the physical self, since it is seen as the spiritual eye, a tri-colored pattern of a golden circle surrounding a field of deep blue with a five-pointed star in its center. This is a reflection of the life-energy that enters the medulla oblongata, the negative pole of ego-consciousness, and is seen in the positive pole located between the eyebrows. The golden circle is the higher astral sphere of consciousness, the blue field inside the circle is the sphere of Christ-consciousness and the white center star is the highest sphere of God-consciousness. When this spiritual eye is beheld imperfectly, it is seen as a dim violet light with a faint surrounding circle and center dot."

I'm looking forward to his new book, I also have all his previous books. Damo once said in a Q&A that the way to enlightenment is really body-centric, so he focuses a lot on neigong. I'm finding more and more each day that Damo is right, the process starts and is fueled by focusing on cleansing, aligning, stretching, relaxing and conditioning the body. I feel like I'm getting to witness how Damo is growing into an adept, like how his focus is steadily shifting from neigong to neidan. He is young still and I'm younger than him, so I look up to him as a role-model and I'm looking forward to the culmination of his efforts decades hence. Of course the Neidan purists would cry foul over Damo's neidan methods of concentrating on cavities and igniting dantien fires, but I think the purists are being hypercritical and I've found that they tend to be dogmatic and they avoid questions that exposes their bias. Damo learned some of his Neidan knowledge on Mt. Wudang, and shares a lot of the LMP practices like ping heng gong. I hope to attend both Damo and Wang Liping's seminars in the future.

Far be it from me to judge someone like Wang Liping, but I do notice that has no gray hair, he does have rosy cheeks and looks in excellent health, he eats very little as if he doesn't have to, his qigong abilities and phenomenal power to influence the energy bodies of individuals and groups have been well documented for decades, the reports of his students in gaining clairvoyant abilities and astounding perception and energetic progression under his guidance are numerous, there are lots of reports of his amazing healing abilities and abilities to influence the weather and physical matter remotely. I have mentioned only a summary of the impressions I have received about Wang Liping from diverse sources, but I would love to read about the abilities and visible signs of good Neidan progress in WLP practitioners and teachers as well. Could you give me a similar summary, but for a WLP teacher? I'm genuinely interested to learn and to find information that can aid me in making good decisions on where to find effective teachings. Agreed, I only referred to the beginning practices of WLP/YXP to emphasize the comparative effectiveness of the Longmen Pai teaching of Wang Liping. I do know YXP daogong and I hope to learn JYSG in Russia soon. I could only make comparisons of quotes, since I don't have personal experience of SHO. However, the point I'm trying to make is that clairvoyant perception and intuitive growth that has been reported by beginners training with Wang Liping is surely a useful skill to aid in the aspects that eventually deal with Neidan. YXP and WLP uses qigong in the beginner exercises, as well as numerous other Eastern modalities, in order to aid in the eventual study of Neidan. Why dismiss such practices and only focus on arguments of Neidan when I want to make a constructive conversation about the effectivity of these foundational practices amongst different teachers? I can only quote on WLP's Master of Single Yang what is available currently, and I can only compare to those writings, as I have shown in this case the perfect correspondence between Master of Single Yang's description of real SHO and the Wang Liping's student's experience. Note also that LMP distinguishes between ~10 different types of qi, and when one extrapolates from the capabilities of a student of a student of Wang Liping to Wang Liping himself to estimate his ability to perceive energetic processes in the body, it seems highly unlikely to me that what Wang Liping experiences as Elixir is different to what WLP experiences as Elixir. Please clarify for me how it would make sense that the descriptions of LMP and WLP real SHO matches up perfectly, but someone with the perceptive abilities and pedigree of Wang Liping, trained in a tradition with so much overlap with WLP, would be mistaken so much? Moreover, if Elixir in this instance corresponds with only one of 10 different types of qi in LMP, and WLP and LMP does in fact have different names for Elixir, then the correspondence will simply be found in the remainder of the types of qi. How can LMP have such clear perception of so many types of qi and energetic processes and be so absolutely fundamentally mistaken? Do not disregard the validity of this question out of blind bias. Yes, there are a lot of false teachings, but WLP does not hold exclusively true teachings. Master-disciple transmission is critically important, even in WLP, as is group practice, since the result is greater than the sum of its parts. I did not say you can do group practice and become an immortal-saint, but indications are that you can accelerate your progress in fundamental skills and attainments that are absolute key to develop further, eventually, in Neidan.

Foundations of Internal Alchemy - Wang Mu Master of Single Yang says real SHO has Elixir flows top-down dropping into LDT: Student of student of Wang Liping describes the same real SHO: http://longmenpai.blogspot.com Student of student of Wang Liping manages to make astounding progress in gaining clairvoyant perception of energetic processes: Wang Liping knows the difference between clearing of Ren and Du & real SHO and LHO, and knows the prerequisites for the formation of the foetus: (continuing from above) Longmen recognizes difference between clearing of Ren and Du & real SHO and LHO: http://taijidandao.blogspot.com/ : Student of Wang Liping says: Daigong with Master Wang Liping at least produces a good foundation in record time, which may take years with more passive approaches like YXP's Daogong and WLP's ЦЯШГ. I mean here I have given record of a relatively new student's clairvoyant capabilities and adeptness at perceiving and manipulating energetic processes in the organs and meridians. We may not yet call this Neidan, if we were being conservative like WLP, but these records should at least make you think twice before dismissing some other school's methods as being ill conceived or even harmful. http://taijidandao.blogspot.com/

I don't think opendao really believes that, all he is saying is that abstinence is not required for the entire duration of the process, but only during certain key stages. If it comes across as him directly stating that one can ejaculate regardless, then it is just opendao trying to emphasize his position that there is more going on, things that are too difficult to explain. So he is making a stance at the risk of being brash and ultimately inaccurate. I welcome clarification or rebuttal from opendao.

I have both "Foundations of internal alchemy" and "Taoist Yoga". They are complementary and "Foundations of internal alchemy" confirms popular beliefs on Neidan. So I'm very interested in studying Opendao's contradictary interpretations and to learn from his lineage to see where the misinterpretations arise from.

Thanks for sharing, really heavy story, glad you came out alive and wiser. Ibogaine is no. 1 for breaking addictions. Micro-dose over a week or so for true life change. I have never done drugs, and even though I have easy access to Ibogaine as I live in South Africa, I will never use it. Ibogaine can be transcendent and really give one incredible glimpses of heightened consciousness, but I have a belief that there's no free lunch. I won't break my spiritual 'virginity' with LSD or Ibogaine, but I would rather struggle through Taoist Neidan for years to achieve lasting, deeper results taken to its conclusion.

I realized again the usefulness of this apt advice: "Don't feed the trolls."

I agree with you. I did not mean to imply any connection between celibacy and virtue. It does not make sense to say that you cannot be virtuous if you're not celibate, you are right. That is not logical, as you say, in fact it sounds inane. I was referring to something else, namely the notion that true realised Neidan masters would hide forever their attainments and teachings just because of some strange interpretation some people have of old human texts. A real master that has achieved Wu Wei would naturally be virtuous as we understand it, on the level of humanity. Also, the greatest masters like Jesus actively displayed their divine nature, to remind humanity that they are too divine. They didn't do it to "compete in a pissing contest", but because humans would only believe if they see the signs. And for how long do you think secret methods would remain unrecorded on some medium, just because some old text says it is never to be recorded? We're rapidly progressing in technology almost to the state shown in Minority Report, faster than you would imagine. Three things cannot long be hidden: The Sun, the Moon, and the Truth.

The disciples of Lahiri Mahasaya wanted to advertise his name across India, but he forbade them because he wanted to stay hidden. A real master becomes known and famous regardless, because he is like a rose and the powerful scent wafts throughout the land drawing people to him naturally. One Chinese saying goes like this: "During ten years of hard practice one is unknown; once he has achieved success, he is known by all." Where are the true Neidan masters that are still alive and known by all as a consequence of their achievement? Or are they hiding in the mountains to cultivate still, perhaps even leading a Celibate lifestyle because of their isolation? Yan Xin sets the Gold Standard for how virtue should be practiced on the level of humanity. He absolutely emphasises virtue as we commonly understand it, because virtue must first be practiced on this level before the lesser known virtue of heaven even becomes relevant. The cultivation of virtue on the level of humanity is as important as the cultivation of xing and ming, because it 'makes heaven glad' and removes the obstacles one inevitably encounters in cultivation. I get that Virtue becomes different the higher one advances in cultivation, but virtue on the level of humanity comes first and should be emphasized.

Lahiri Mahasaya most probably "laid with his wife" only for the purpose of recreation, as seems to be the custom with spiritually inclined Indians. Yogananda stated this explicitly of his father and mother, that they only did it for procreation. It is, after all, the overwhelming impression that after procreating these masters were wholly celibate and to simply point to the fact that they had children leaves a lot to be desired. Of course, there is Chaste, and there is Celibate, where Chaste allows for procreation. In any case, when we refer to Celibate we ultimately refer to the active avoidance of any Jing loss through sexual activity, but India has a familial culture so procreation cannot be avoided easily. The only reports I've ever seen of Yogananda is that two female reporters intended to seduce him in an interview but he sent them on their way.

The majority of users are here to learn something new and to share knowledge, and not to boast about how everyone is wrong without giving useful advice. It is a strange world where all of the sudden agreed upon concepts and terms get redefined at will to support notions of superiority, and where the clear advice of texts gets ignored in favor of strange exclusive interpretations. Indeed, it is strange when everything we know about Virtue gets kicked out of the door and godlike masters suddenly withhold their bountiful blessings and advice from humanity so as not to violate centuries old human texts. What has this world come to that all of the sudden all the exemplary masters, who have actively displayed the Divine nature of man for the upliftment of humanity, are the propagators of half-truths?

Hey Innersoundqigong, excellent post to which I fully agree. When I see people saying that meditation and celibacy are not critical components of cultivation I am dumbfounded, like they are saying "water is not wet." Almost all of the accounts I've read in all traditions of masters enlightening and becoming essentially superhuman stress meditation and celibacy. All masters who's lives are written up have stressed meditation and celibacy. All the real gurus and yogis whose lives I have studied have emphasized meditation and celibacy. Do I follow their example and achieve real cultivation, or do I doubt their methods because of some purported secret would have me believe the methods are ineffectual? Yogananda has said that the acid test of a real master is the display of the breathless state. Swami Rama displayed his ability to voluntarily stop his heart, measured beyond doubt by doctors and scientists in a USA hospital. My point is, if you cannot even reach such a 'middle' result as breathlessness then what does it matter if you're not using secret methods when the masters who have displayed such feats already gave effective methods. First reach the state of breathlessness then start to worry about secret Neidan teachings that nobody has ever written about or confirmed. Celibacy is much avoided and downplayed even on these forums, and it's not hard to understand why. Like Innersoundqigong says, if it was easy to be celibate there would be many more masters. I firmly believe in the effectivity of meditation and celibacy over some odd secret methods, until I can see you demonstrate the breathless state and a true sincerity that demands that known methods are ineffective. You do not need to perform odd practices, otherwise how could self-cultivation be easy? Just still the heart in quiescence and let Divine guidance lead you on the Great Way.

I'm just trying to get more facts, and I appreciate you sharing. At quick glance Yuxian Pai uses Shen Gong standing active exercise to replenish Yuan Jing as the first Neidan step, as from http://www.northerndao.org/events : "To introduce a first step of Yuxian Pai Internal Alchemy method: empower and clean the kidneys using a set of movements called Shengong." So the first step of your Neidan method is not a secret at all. Thanks for the clarification. I thought the first step of Neidan was never written down, but if it is so easily available I won't be surprised if somebody documented it somehow. So the first step is really a preparatory exercise, even though it does not work with Yuan Jing. So it almost seems to just be Qigong conditioning, and it is not really Neidan, since the real first step of Neidan is to replenish Yuan Jing in order to move on to its refining. The thing is all-dao.com makes it seem like their Shengong is the secret first step, but like all false advertising the poor student only finds out afterward that the real first step can only be learned after spending a lot more time and money. It's only after provocatively garnering information that one finds the truth, and then it is made out to be this obvious thing. Why can't people just be honest instead of trying to trick and mislead?

So how would one then replenish Pre-Heaven Essence (Yuan Jing)? At quick glance Yuxian Pai uses Shen Gong standing active exercise to replenish Yuan Jing as the first Neidan step, as from http://www.northerndao.org/events : "To introduce a first step of Yuxian Pai Internal Alchemy method: empower and clean the kidneys using a set of movements called Shengong." Could this Shengong be Nine Yang Magic Power or Jiu Yang Shen Gong, which is the secret first step of WLP and Yuxian Pai, which would look just like simple Qigong to an outsider? Since sitting exercises for the beginning stages of Neidan would be explicitly criticised by WLP followers, they opt for something that does not violate the long list of "fake" Neidan practices, and the result probably looks like Qigong. Which is very ironic, since WLP followers would claim that masters like Wang Liping and Yan Xin are really doing Qigong and not Neidan. "Simply repair by yourself this Essence with your Essence, and this Breath with your Breath. You do not need to perform any odd practice, or how could self-cultivation be easy?" "Just settle the breathing of the Spirit and rely on the celestial spontaneity." I have read Foundations of Internal Alchemy translated by Pregadio, a text effectively recommended to me by a Yuxian Pai follower. And it clearly states on multiple occasions that Sitting in Quiescence and controlling breathing does the bulk of the work in real Neidan. "Therefore the initial stage involves collecting the mind, guarding Unity, ceasing thoughts, and entering the state of quiescence. These four expressions show that, at this stage, one should perform practices to eliminate the impure thoughts." "Therefore when you are sitting in quiescence, you should first of all practice the method of stopping breathing." If you understand the expressions, you will see that this the most widely preached practice, i.e. sitting meditation, focus on LDT, and stilling the heart/5 thieves/desires. "Therefore when the alchemical masters sit to practice, they coagulate Spirit and stabilize breathing, press the tongue lightly against the upper palate, concentrate the Heart and eyes inwardly, look down at their Cinnabar Field, and can rapidly enter the state of Quiescence." "Therefore Laozi said: "I always contemplate the Heart, and attain the Dao in the blink of an eye." "During the refining on should apply flexibility, and should not adhere too rigidly to the literal meaning of words." However, it would seem that WLP and Yuxian Pai do not agree, and instead chooses to interpret ancient texts out of context with lack of logic and failing to see the bigger picture as long as they can gather evidence of superiority. They take as evidence the documented lifespan of "fake" Neidan teachers to show that those teachers could not have know the right teachings. Yet they forget to factor in that when a Yang Shen body is created, it is a double and the old body has to die. Yogic literature is replete with writings of masters like Babaji, Lahiri Mahasaya, Pranabananda, and Sri Yukteshwar who have thrown off their old bodies so that they could operate in their Yang Shen body. Some of them even worked out the karmic load of their disciples as cancers on their own body, yet they healed countless of people, how does the math work out here? The old body is just a tattered old jacket, not needed anymore when they have a Yang Shen body. The message of WLP recommended texts are clearly this, harness the mechanisms of the three dantians for refining the various forms of life energy, let the process unfold naturally and allow yourself to be divinely guided by relying on Celestial spontaneity. In this way prolonged meditation, with the observance of certain key principles openly available, will result in the highest achievement.

Thanks Innersoundqigong. We just have to be careful when we use Neidan terms like SHO that results from "false" teachings that is not Wu Liu Pai, because as opendao will point out the SHO we reach from such "false" teachings are just the imaginings of a deranged mind. Also, sitting meditation, as opendao will probably point out, cannot possibly lead to real Neidan results because of an interpretation of an ancient text. Even though hundreds of amazing yogis and masters from all times have achieved countless wonderful attainments from sitting practice, including some for whom there is strong evidence that they created their Yang Shen body like Babaji, Lahiri Mahasaya, Sri Yukteshwar and Pranabananda as captured on yoganiketan. WLP will be adamant that most of these people, even though they show time and again very worthwhile attainments, have nothing to do with WLP Neidan, and their attainments are probably not up to scratch and would be severely lacking and imaginative. These so-called masters have done amazing things and displayed grand virtue, disseminating their techniques freely both in live teaching and in text. Maybe I'll rather waste my time pursuing their example than support an ultrasecretive system that is practically out of reach for many worldwide practitioners and that cannot find a way to communicate part of their teachings even in this modern day and age with rich media and video! And if a lineage energy transmission is the secret, then a simple disclaimer could suffice; but alas, like in religion blind faith and centuries old militant tradition overrules common sense and the opportunity for cultivation of grand Virtue and to do good in the world by disseminating real teaching or part of it freely to the benefit of all mankind. Instead it seems like the objective is one of elitism, the disregard for Virtue and the inability to effectively communicate the teaching in a new age striving for upward spiritual mobility. Maybe I'll rather stick with those masters who have actually showed their power, undeniably, and have given free, effective teachings. Masters like Yan Xin who openly healed thousands upon thousands of people publicly, and Wang Liping who has tremendous success leading his students into advanced neidan states. Or am I taking too many liberties on your interpretation, opendao?

No worries I found the following at http://all-dao.com/heavenly-circle.html: "These practitioners, feeling as "qi moves through the channels Ren and Du", accelerate the process of loss of their own Jing. This is a way of speeding up the approach of death, it does a lot of harm and has no benefits. It's just a wrong, a “side-road” method of practice. Our School of Wu Chung-Xu – Liu Hua-yang teaches a dual perfection of Xing and Ming, and what is called "heavenly circle" - it is really the "heavenly circle of the elixir’s way. " Once a student of the School produces a "true seed", then it will be not qi but rather the “true water” that will circulate through the Ren and Du Meridians, also the locations of its awareness will be different too. In the elixir way these channels are passed using the qi of the Previous sky, in that process of circulation from top to bottom a "sweet dew" will flow, directly sinking into the lower Dantian, and it happens in reality, not in imagination." Sometimes I get the feeling that all these warnings, even in classical texts, refer to clear violations of common sense based on understood mechanisms. So one has to be weary to not make blanket statements without really knowing the nature of the specific situation at hand. For example, in the above, if someone feels like Qi is moving in SHO, but it leaks Jing and is harmful, then the situation must be one of clear deviation where the practitioner is probably forcing a visualization with strong breath so as to actually move what seems to be the SHO. When in reality, he is clearly just expending energy to achieve a forced result, as opposed to the SHO actually starting on its own after sensible practice and progress over a relatively long time. The same with sitting meditation being a false practice. I appreciate that one of the 8 Immortals says it's false or whatever, but one shouldn't throw logic out of the window and possibly misinterpret what could just be a hyperbolic statement blown out of proportion. Be scientific, look at people's results, like Wang Liping's students. Can we really discredit countless accounts of opening the SHO under the supervision of a widely regarded Master as daydreams and imaginings? I'm specifically thinking of decades of teaching document by Shen Laoshi, Wang Lipings disciple, and how he manages with Daigong group meditation to open hundreds of people's SHO stably and lasting in just a couple of days? Are they all mentally deranged, and are their attainments and efforts to be disregarded? Sure, maybe "fake" Neidan teachings do have flaws that will get you stuck at certain stages of the Internal Alchemy process, but if people can reach opening their real SHO with "fake" teachings, then wouldn't you call that a good start. Then, maybe, if you fail to create the Foetus you can turn to WLP and get some "real" teachings.