silent thunder

Nice one! My Mom had one of those awesome solid Walnut console stereos built in the 60's (man they had great resonance) and an extensive record collection. She loved to fire that thing up loud and dance around while she cleaned the house on Saturdays. Roger Whittaker, Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass, Ferrante and Teischer, Tchaichovski, Kenny Rogers and Charlie Pride come to mind as routinely shaking our walls with the bass on full.

Well said. I no longer see things as right and wrong. Right and wrong, normal and crazy is little more than what we were exposed to from the ages of 0-8 and shift radically from society to society (and even within one society they shift drastically according to individuals). Look at the range of opinions in this one conversation. All across the range of potential reactions. Individual reactions are not right or wrong to me, they are reflections of the ones who convey them. All facets of a gem are as they are, yet they don't all refract and reflect light the same, while still all are part of the one gem. We move collectively as a society. All input is equally relevant, though in action, some causes strife and other's bring peace. Such is the way of the manifest. So, though I can no longer experience things such as right or wrong, I do experience things quite clearly as tenable and untenable. Sustainable and unsustainable. Tolerable and intolerable. While I don't have energy for death penalty, I will not stand and allow actions I find reprehensible or harmful take place. I interfere when I see abusive behavior toward children and the elderly for example. It's just that once the violence has been stilted. Once the harm has ceased and the perpetrator isolated, I no longer have energy or desire to heap more harm on an already damaged individual. To me, society grows stronger and more tenable if we can rehabilitate and return to functioning society, healthy whole individuals. There will always be those who are beyond shift and change. These were I making the decisions, would be relegated to isolation indefinitely, but not harmed further. Sweeping notions of ridding disease by mass culling of the herd smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water and overreaction to me. At times surely some surgical means are required to deal with disease. But our 'modern medicine' approach to cancer is a good example of this overreaction to me. The notion that we will irradiate the entire organism, banking on the organism's ability to out heal the poison and survive the radiation while the cancer cannot abide, seems a result of the oversimplification of our notion of our own bodies. The Cartesian model of the body as a machine that can be taken apart and put together again and understood is vastly out of focus in my experience of a fluid interrelation of systems all interconnected and interfeeding. Many behaviors in society are untenable in the long run. In my experience these fall away under their own unsustainability before long. My actions seem better spent in healing my self and those I come in contact with, from isolating and then trying to heal those damaged ones who cause problems. Bucky Fuller put it very succinctly back in the 50's when he spoke of how to approach sweeping change in a large system... Paraphrasing he said "you never change the sytem effectively by fighting it directly, that only brings greater resistance and reinforces the system. (this is deeply reflected in the daoist cannon btw). To change the system, create a new model that renders the old model irrelevant and then wait. As the next generation arises, they will see the irrelevance of the old system and it will fall away effortlessly as they adopt the new model, no fighting needed." My uncle worked as a homicide detective for decades. The vast majority of violence and harm is caused by a small group of damaged, angry and rageful folk. Things are not as bleak as they may seem. Our human nature is not worse than before in my exprience. Things are not worse now, than before, but in our age of instant information, we hear about so much more than we used to, it lends an ease to the assumption that we are spiraling in disease. So my approach is a softer one now. No need to irradiate the whole. Just as great rage is not sustainable for long, poor farming habits, poor mental processes bring small yields and nature culls in authenticity.

Spent another dozen hours or so over the last couple days following records and have uncovered a few very interesting things in my tree. Now glad I decided to pay for the membership to access international records. I resisted for several years as it's pricey in my opinion, but now seems worth it. On my Father's side, records are very strong and run back to the early 1400's with relative ease (pun intended). I found one rather fun unexpected surprise. In my Father's Father's line, one of my ancestors Johanson Bjorngard born in 1560 Nord Trondelog Norway went Viking, left Norway and settled in the Virginia Territory where he died in at the age of 50 in 1610. No records of any children or marriages have emerged so far, but I'll keep digging. Found another who left Norway for England, landing in Staffordshire and passing there in the 1560's. There's far less info on my Mother's side. Info on my great grandmother stops with her cold so far. This is the line that was said to come from Germany. Found a bit on her husband, name of Lowe. Traced his line back to the 1640's where it turns out his family came from Switzerland, not Germany. By far the most enriching thing has been the host of names I have now to call upon. Some truly epic names... coming from Trondelog. How's this for a Valkyrie Warrioress Name? Gunhild Ivarsdatter Loksengard... 1639-1699. Or Ingeborg Sigbjornnsdatter Eikeland 1637-1701. I walked around the house calling out these names and my wife, watching a film, removed her headphones and said "if I wake up tonight with some Valkyrie Warrior named Gunhild sizing me up from the foot of our bed, I'm holding you responsible!" good times!

Saying the things you do not have to say weakens your talk. WILLIAM STAFFORD, Crossing Unmarked Snow

While I understand the mindset and you're not wrong, no one in this conversation is. No one person knows the correct response to a tragedy or a crime. Your response is your response. But it is only yours. You don't speak for all and your words echo the sentiments spoken often by my wife's father. Whenever I encounter them, I now pay close attention to see when the justified actions creep in... The character of a society is seen in how it treats the least powerful among them. The animals, the slaves, the destitute, the transgressors. The next step once this level of certainty was arrived at is 'justified retribution' for perceived transgressions or strong corrections for 'lack of proper vision', or 'inability to see "the truth"... and once this has been established, then the real harm begins to flow and we enter the territory where the punishments for perceived crimes being 'justified' often become crimes of their own in my experience. Often far worse than the crime they are being dealt out in retribution for... such is life. The punishment becomes an obligation. His (my wife's father's) words reflected his mindset and belayed an inner torment, born of deep trauma, pain and fear. He utterly rejected healing. He was too tough for that. It was a weak man's business. He was out for blood and correction. I was too for a good portion of my life. The Viking in me is ancient and raw, visceral. When I was certain about something, I could utterly dissolve into justified rage. It nearly killed me, rotting my body. Itself the very core bad apple you speak of. That which rots us, I find, comes from within, not without. For as Sadhguru says so poignantly. "if someone outside of you, controls you, you are a slave... is this not so? How much more a slave are you then, if your inner state, is controlled by someone outside of you? If your inner condition of life is manipulated by someone other than you, then you are truly the slave of slaves." Hate is not healed through hate. My take on hate now, after long experience with it is 'be very mindful what you allow yourself to hate, you will surely come to emulate it.' But not all are interested in healing at this point. For many years, there were times I would sense a softening of my rage that arose naturally and I would rise up and reject it, re-establishing my anger to keep the ball rolling. Some have a pressing need to carry and nurture only that burning seed, it's what defines them, keeps them going, becomes them. While it saddens me, I'm not of a mind to even attempt to remove it for anyone any longer, I used to be... now I see it's not my place, nor within my abilities, nor my job. I'm not the world police. I have no idea what path processes will provoke awakening in others. I recall at an exhibit on buddhas at the Bower Museum some 20 years ago, being stunned at encountering the 'Buddha of Rage'. A buddha who woke up in the midst of his rage. I once bathed in justified anger, resentment and rage filled fantasies of retribution, it's part of my path. So I understand it. Though it caused such harm in me, it was not sustainable for long without manifestations in the body that debilitated. Whenever I hear this tone in folks, I prick my ears and put energy into paying sharp attention and watch them closely, if from a distance. For when this tone arises, harm is often shortly to follow and when I witness this harm, I have no compunctions to action. My wife is firmly for the death penalty. I have no energy for it. I'm not against it per se... but there seems no longer any point to it. Isolating the damaged, the violent is enough for me. Their rot cannot spread from isolation. And I don't inflict rot on myself from holding and nurturing a desire to inflict harm more harm for something already passed.

I've come to a place where there is no mountain. All rigid forms of mind and body and practice have fallen away for the time being. Nice description, as you say, there's a deal of paradox in these processes. My body was healed thoroughly in the first two years of returning to this work and the forms laying the foundation and a fair amount of 'doing' were part of that. The last years have seen the affects of the form work shift into the mental and ephemeral aspects of non-form, thought and no thought. Release has been key and has gone farther than I ever expected. During parts of this process any engagement of 'doing' became untenable and released of their own accord. All process has shifted in the last 15 months to a deep resonant releasing on all levels... there is no mountain. Though as all has steadily fallen away and an experience of that which remiains is what is here naturally of its own accord and not maintained by excess grabbing, doing, reaching, striving or seeking... I sense the mountain returning and this approach I've glimpsed through your words may be an indication to test the waters again. a balance and a dance, wei wu wei... allowing action to flow unimpeded. action without forcing... mind without rigid, or excessive mind. I recall the period I used to work in sand on the beach, the obsessive fun and joy of playing with simple shifts of foot placement and angle in the sand, flattening and arching the soles and how that affected knees/hips and energetic flow lines to the body overall. As you say, much fun for the obsessive types. Absolutely. Thanks again for sharing, it's appreciated.

Zhou never mentioned it, but then, he didn't speak much when I studied with him. It was show and follow, not show and tell. Wang Li Ping talked about a variety of things going on in the nine palaces of the head space, the central orifice, the back mirror and entering and exiting the top of the head after the third eye opens, but not a pillar in particular like you describe, or anything related to an aura in that manner that I recall. edit to add: here's a reference pic from the cover of Wang's book

That's from memory. Though I would imagine in his career, he used it thousands of times in a variety of ways. A true master social commentarian. He reminds me of a modern version of Chuang Tzu in many ways.

your presence and sharing is appreciated mate. sad to see you leave, but fully understand the need, when it arises. travel well and thrive!

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity. ~ George Carlin

It certainly seems the one set free when forgiveness arises, is the one forgiving, not the one forgiven. That was my experience. Forgiveness for me is not condoning, accepting, or accomodating the one forgiven. It's at its core a decision that I no longer am able or willing to spend energy in resentment, anger, rage and bitterness. When I forgive, I'm setting my burden down. I'm letting myself live free of resentment, unknotting anger. When I burn in resentment, I burn. The one I'm resenting is not burnt, they are living their life, oblivious. I watched my Mother carry a burning seed of resentment over her divorce for years. She'd be boiling about it sometimes for hours a day, many years later; meanwhile he was on his boat, mixing martinis and enjoying his life. Don't forgive because they deserve it, forogive because your life is worth more than living in resentment. Or don't... no one holds a gun to anyone's head for this stuff. It comes when it comes or it doesn't... no right or wrong on timing of grief, trauma and healing.

The border between the Real and the Unreal is not fixed, but just marks the last place where rival gangs of shamans fought each other to a standstill. - Robert Anton Wilson The web of life is a beautiful and meaningless dance. The web of life is a process with a moving goal. The web of life is a perfectly finished work of art right where I am sitting now. - Robert Anton Wilson Pregnancy is a kind of miracle. Especially so in that it proves that a man and woman can conspire to force God to create a new soul. - Robert Anton Wilson Anyone in the United States today who isn't paranoid must be crazy. - Robert Anton Wilson (1970's lol) Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. - Robert Anton Wilson

further quotes: if interested, here is the entire article

Intriguing to encounter this thought. update for those who may not follow the news: (I've been taking it in daily for about 3 months now and will soon cease) The man convicted to death in my quote of the opening post died in Texas on Wed as planned. One thing seems certain. That man will never drag anyone to death behind a truck again. And yet some of the victim's own family sought to stay his execution. Perhaps it's the victims who should decide the punishment once guilt has been established? Why leave it to a judge or jury who were not involved directly? Deeply appreciate everyone's thoughtful and passionate sharing here. I consider no one wrong, or correct in this conversation or their take. It's all invaluable.

Bearded Dragon... enjoying some of your old posts recently and missing you mate.

Perhaps I reengage with forms, not to achieve something desired, or lose something unwanted... but simply to experience and 'be with it'.

Thank you for this topic and in particular thank you @freeform Your choice of words have been settling through me for a few days now. There is some discomfort with some of it, which seems a good sign lately. For some time now, I've been unable to engage in any of my old forms. Yet upon reading, rereading and allowing this conversation to settle... I sense the potential to re-engage with a degree of you and your teachers filtered perspective. I'm curious, what lineage he teaches from? your sharing reminded me of this thought that arose to me, shortly before I needed to walk away from all formal 'practice'. muddiest waters left undisturbed by process rest in clarity Perhaps mind is quieting enough for me to approach again... perhaps sung is settling. anyway... deep thanks that you and all involved take their time to share here. I often delete my posts instead of publish them, for every one I publish, many are deleted as unworthy, useless. Deeply grateful you all chose to share here. Great benefit arises from unlikely places these days, places i used to overlook.

Dylan was raised in the Iron range in Minnesota, not far from where I grew up. Tough place to grow up. Harsh. He once said of his youth... I ran away 17 times, they brought me back 16. A workmate friend of mine toured with him in the 80's. He said Dylan was extremely private and so reclusive, he almost never spoke a word to anyone, nor came out to engage with others except to convey set lists and then walk on stage. Still waters run deep. What a wonderful poet, thanks for the reminder, haven't listened to him in too long.

Upon thinking review, I guess it's disingenuous to say thoughts are totally intangible, when they seem to be comprised or associated with energy, at least as it applies to brain. They directly and sometimes deeply impact physiology. Though I don't and so far can't accept that thought is generated by the physical brain. Brain seems a focusing agent, a tool so to speak, not unlike a radio or television for tuning in frequencies. Thought seems to arise from awareness, as does the physical to me. Not vice versa.

Thoughts are intriguing. I experience them, yet they have no substance and no tangible reality. Yet they seem to exhibit great impact on my experience of reality. They occupy a bit of time. They begin endure a bit and then come to an end. Yet they occupy no place in space. They are never a 'thing'. While portions of the brain are active during various types of thinking there is no where we can look in the brain while someone is thinking of an apple and see an image of an apple. Curiously, live imaging of the brain has shown that whether I am seeing an apple with my eyes, or conjuring the idea of one in my mind, the same portions of the brain light up in each instance, lending credence to the modern notion that we 'hallucinate our reality'. Transduction of signals from outside to inside the brain aside. This seems very key to me... madly important, yet I can't put words to why. That aside. What is a thought? Seems there are levels. Thoughts have no shape or substance and yet give rise to the manifest everyday. The Wright Brothers thought long about airplanes and then built them. To me, a physical sensation is also a thought. Awareness of my feet on the floor is a thought... the body and its processes are all thought, or perhaps thought inducing. I've always appreciated the Greek language for its distinction of nouns. There is one word for an apple I'm holding in my hand and offering to you to eat. There is a separate word that is used for apple when we are speaking of conceptual apples and not specific physical apples. Well enough spit-balling. Sometimes when I am mulling something over a lot, I'll write about it, or talk about it, even when no one is around, as we use different portions of brain and mind when talking/writing, than when just 'thinking'. Sometimes I sense that may bring in a new avenue of perception and perspective shift that may bring insight. No insight, but a thought just crept in... my coffee cup needs refilling. cheers thinkers!

We tend to spend our expendible money on experiences instead of stuff. Travel is big. But even then, we prefer camping over hotels and hiking over resorts. Things get boring and used up so fast... memories really shine, as long as ya get to keep em anyway. Mom lost almost all of her memories toward the end... that was a wild ride. Really just isn't that much that's needed for a full open throttle life when it comes down to it. I have a collection of small invaluable emotional totems. Items associated with the folks that I love with all my being. Each has a vivid memory, and a specific person associated with it. Through the ease of modern life, all of my closest friends are now spread out across the globe, so these small items are treasured all the more. Books. Books. Books. I freaking love books and have begun collecting (psuedo-hoarding) again after winnowing my collection down by 70% in a deep purge about a decade ago. I doubt I'll ever purge like that again. My son will inherit the library. Books shine brighter than gold for me.

Interesting. We're crossing over heavily in central Norway with Hedmark. My norse almost all hails from Nord-Trondelog along the coast, but the second most featured is in Hedmark. I've found solid records placing one family line from my Father's Mother in Stange Parrish in particular, on the South-Western portion of Hedmark.