silent thunder

Hey Charles, I'm not inclined to share much... I've only talked about three specific things to my wife and son, the rest is just really beyond words and I'm still processing. I will say it was remarkable and I am deeply grateful to Masters Wang and Liao for their efforts and compassion. I look forward to attending again and I'm truly stoked for your coming experience. The process for this retreat was to sit twice a day, mid-morning and afternoon. Couple days in, they added an early morning walking meditation and most evenings there was tree work and/or sleep meditations. One thing that is easy to talk about and I will share, is that at some point mid retreat, I realized I hadn't been using my reading glasses for a couple days and I haven't needed them yet, so I'll find out if this is a temporary effect of the field, or if Master Wang effected something more permanent in my case. I requested no healing as I am healthy. My entire focus for the retreat was to close down excessive shen, open up the heart and stabilize energy in the foundation. All of those things manifested and continue to play out as I continue to use what was shared.

All of my human teachers so far have displayed human tendencies. If palatable, I look past the human to the teaching. If not, I move on. Like Sifu Lee said.... It's like a finger pointing to the moon, don't look at the finger, or you miss all the heavenly glory.

I relate to the Virtue described by the concept De, in the manner that it is a virtue of grass to be green. Not that green grass is somehow virtuous. There is no morality in it to me. Property is a synonym for Virtue in the context of De, for me. It is a natural expression of essence. It is the virtue of a taoist to follow nature.. Not that this is somehow morally above, or beneath any other way of being. Merely a description of the properties exhibited.

Interesting question. I've always harbored the assumption and so far the forms I have studied all start with healing the body as the premise for all other work, once this foundation is established, then the other work commences naturally from this point on... I hadn't even thought of bypassing the body altogether. But then, I really enjoy my body.

Cool topic. Many experts. Much decisive knowing and fierce certainty. No consensus. But lots and lots of certainty. This thread has done me a service, a nice reminder that whenever I'm most certain, I should be most cautious, because I'm my most open to being completely, ridiculously wrong and given to statements of absurdity. My certainty births a confidence that fosters a mindset that all that can and might be 'known' is already possessed and further exploration is pointless. What a load of fuckery often flows in my life from this state. I have yet to encounter any state, in sleep, meditation, trance, or in my 'daily' life, that engenders in me a sense that I know everything about anything. Live in the question and just because I thought it, doesn't make it real both seem appropriate. Having said that, I can't imagine that I, or anyone making any statements, or writing a book who is not a yin ghost would know if Yin Ghosthood is good or bad. And even were a Yin Immortal to write a book, could I then take that one immortals perspective, as the one true and correct Truth. I can imagine many scenarios in which it might be beneficial, or preferential to other states after 'death' and just as many that seem downright terrifying. All are mere suppositions, albeit very entertaining. Sort of like life... how it seems to me, its goodness and badness, is based on how I perceive it. And how I perceive it, is not inherently right, or true, or important. The same state of yin immortality may be blissful to one and terrifying to another... who is to decide? who is right or wrong? To quote Spock... "fascinating." Deep thanks again for the presence of this forum. So many delicious bones to chew.

I yawned gloriously throughout this thread. Thanks!

I was at the LA retreat a couple weeks ago. Paradigm is still shifting in response to the effects of the field and the depth of its influence. Utterly, simply pervasive. Wang is a treasure and Liao the bridge bringing it to the West. My deep gratitude to them both. Enjoy!

I am 46 and recently had an interesting experience regarding eyesight and practice. I just finished the Wang Li Ping intensive 10 day retreat in Los Angeles. Each day, after third session, I would take my one meal at a great Ph'o restaurant near the hotel. I would sit and read while I waited for my food and for a bit after eating, while waiting for tree practice. One evening around day 7 as my meal arrived and I set my book down, I realized that for a few days I hadn't even thought about my reading glasses, didn't know where they were in fact. A year ago or so, my eyes shifted to blurry, and it literally happened overnight. I read to my son before bed every night. One night, I opened the book we were reading to find that I could not bring the words in focus, no matter how I tried and I've worn mild reading glasses since then, for anything up close, until now. It's been a couple weeks now since the retreat ended and the field we were occupying dissipated, but my eyes still focus well. I suspect it's a bi-product of the intense field created by Master Wang and the group and may not be permanent, but so far, no glasses needed to read. I'll post up again, if/when it changes.

I am developing a deep love affair with loose leaf teas. But really no 'supplements', other than good whole food, grown naturally, prepared with love and attention and shared among people I love whenever possible, with many sounds of relish and happiness as we chew and swallow... coupled with attentive walking, or qi gong and of late, several hours of sitting. Also, of late, my body will gently remind me that it is very helpful to be empty for some days. On these occasions, I abstain from food for usually 3-7 days, until the gentle urge to eat comes again. blissful bellows

I remind myself that perception is not truth. just because you, I, or someone else, thought something and felt strongly about it doesn't make it real, true, or even important... don't believe everything you think.

Same one for me, third year going. Remain silent, or say something better than silence...

To the Ravens and Gulls outside as they divvy up the loot we put out

Click bait no thanks

Psychotic and unconscionable.

My experience is that the distinctive cause of healthy teeth is the ph of saliva and the persistent presence of it flowing. I have gone long periods without even owning a toothbrush, and flossing?... only when something is jammed and I have no toothpick. Since the age of 17 I have been to the dentist twice when old fillings came loose... I turn 47 in a few months. Each time they put in a new filling, give me a cleaning and off I go for another decade. No flouride use here, we drink distilled water. I am intrigued by anecdotal accounts of oil pulling and remineralization though.

I would constantly be distracted by the meaning of the secret message revelaled by the highlighted letters...

I'll join you in a toast. No disrespect taken mate... it's a good topic and a great question and in the end I didn't actually answer your question because as I perceive it, the only one who can answer for you if hatred has a use, is you. I can't conceive of knowing how and what contains meaning in the context of anyone's perspective. However, as I've spent a good amount of time in anger and rage in my younger life, I just shared my current view as I have come to find real, practical benefit to the quality of my daily life from it. When confronted with a rabid dog, I will isolate that dog and ensure that within my abilities, I will not allow that dog to cause damage. I will isolate, but once this is accomplished, I have no interest in increasing the suffering of the being isolated. There is no hate, no desire to punish. I react as necessary in a bad situation, but have no interest in increasing the suffering of any involved. I'd rather spend my awareness on love and healing. There was a person I used to work with/for, who engendered a lot of malice and hate from many who worked under him, or along side him over the years. I remember one day, someone asking me, after a particularly vile interchange if I wanted to smash his face in, or if we should go slash his tires. My response was 'I'd rather go out for a beer with you and talk about that book you were reading on the nature of consciousness (which was The Origin of Consciousness by Julian James, highly recommended!)... as for him... I can't think of any punishment I could heap on him, that would be more painful than for him to wake up tomorrow and continue to be himself'. My buddy laughed and that was it, we went out for beers. I could have brooded and festered, but any more, to me that is more akin to emotional masturbation/addictive thought loops. I don't, won't and, can't abide violence, or abusive behavior to exist in my space, when confronted with violent ignorance, there is no choice for me, I just find myself acting when these things crop up. Yet, when I act, either in word, usually, or deed, when required, it is not fueled by hate, nor is hate involved in any way... instead, my feeling in the moment I would describe as a deep repulsion at the situation, then upon review later, a sense of sadness at the state of the situation. Hate isn't something that I feel in the moment. In my experience hate needs to be fed, usually in deep, obsessive brooding about a specific event, or a perceived slight after the event has receded. Hate in my experience, must be fed and its source is actually me, not the event. By the time I am experiencing hate, the event is no longer occurring. Verse 31 of the Tao speaks to it effectively. This is from my haiku adaptation of the Tao. Weapons: tools of pain, used for violence and fear, decent men abhor. Yet in direst need and if compelled, will use them, with utmost restraint. Peace. Highest Value. When the peace has been shattered who can be content? Glory in fighting? Those who delight in killing do not know true self. Your foes not demons. Simple beings like yourself. Sage desires no harm. No victory dance. Victory by force? No joy. How rejoice in pain? Sage battles gravely, with sorrow and compassion, like tending a grave. I used to spend much of my daily life, raging at all that was wrong with the world. Now I spend much of my life loving whatever I can find within reach. I don't hide my head in the sand. But I no longer get off on the perpetual, masturbatory cycle of feeding anger and fear.

Perhaps I've just grown tired, but as it stands now, I have no interest in pursuing or feeding hate or its cousin anger. Too often, they both lead to ugly actions in the name of 'justified' reactions. That word, justified, is perhaps, even more disgusting to me than hate and by far it's the most terrifying to me these days, for under its guise, the most abhorrent actions of hatred are deemed, not only acceptable, but 'necessary' in many cases and in the end, I find it impossible to distinguish the 'justified retaliatory acts' from the original acts upon which they are focused. In the end, actions taken or not, I have come to really watch hatred and anger closely, for this about hatred rings truer for me than anything else... "take care what you allow yourself to hate, for you will come to emulate it". Matters not if it be just in the mind, or in the realm of action/reaction. Also, just because I thought something and felt strongly about it, doesn't make it real, true, or even important... I don't believe everything I think and don't take the world so personally any longer, much to my benefit and that of those near me. I spend what energy I possess and cultivate on stuff I love, rather than things I find abhorrent. Life is too short to take personally. Life is hard enough without feeding the nastiness.

In good Winter Solstice form I slept about 14 hours and had potent dreams. Tonight will be multiple stillness sessions and then some more dream work. Happy Solstice fellow oneironauts!

Never gave it a chance, now I think I will check out Andromeda. Looks like a good concept.

(Grandpa gave me a roundtuit once... wish I still had it, buncha stuff needs doin.

Ling Bao Tong Zhi Neng Nei Gong Shu: Master Wang Liping translated: Richard Liao Solid stuff

Spontaneous Laughter

Deep bow of respect and thanks for those cycling out and to those who cycle in...