silent thunder

Ha! Most Definitely!

True enough. I am often building scenery outside in SoCal in 100+ weather, 12 hours a day for 60-90 days in a row... ugh don't remind me, another one is coming up soon. At work I can just focus on the work and it goes away for the most part. It bothers me more when I'm just hanging out. Although I have learned via experience and now follow a lesson from our brothers and sisters in the Middle East. I wear long sleeves and pants in the sun. All loose fitting, light material and light colored, with a Big Giant God Sized Hat! I don't even own shorts anymore and I live in Cali... ha! It always strikes me though, when working in that kind of heat, how much water we use. Drink gallons of water a day and never need to pee...

hmm I wonder what Joe's sacred would be.... ?

Good point! Roles is such a key word and it's totally artificial. If we quizzed each man about what a real man is, we'd get how many different answers? As many answers as men we ask. If we did the same for women, do we think there would ever be a real consensus? Read any news article about gender anything and there is the proof that there is no consensus. We are individuals within an amorphous system of conditions, constantly in flux seeking a solid unchanging definition of something that is always changing... I find much more peace when I stop trying to change everything else and simply allow things that are harming no one, to be as they are... but that's just me. "All groups are grammatical fictions; only individuals exist and each one is unique." RAW I meet everyone as an individual. Their actions and mine, dictate our reactions and thus define our relationship. When no harm is done, life thrives. When harm comes, it's time to stop it, or move on. edit: changed the you's to we's... I'm tired of my speech projecting onto others, trying to keep things closer to home.

I avoid the midday sun as if I were a vampire... Pale Viking Loves the Sun... but from the shade of a big beautiful tree

Outstanding Mate! Shine the light and let the rest deal with itself eh?

Well this is the longest I've been able to maintain an interest in an MP thread; as it's the one I've experienced that had solid, clear, adult conversation about someone's actual experience within the system. I say had, because the dogma crew has crapped on the conversation and hijacked it again. *deep bow* and respect to Son of the Gods, for proving, at least for 12 pages or so, that real civil discourse and information can be shared about this topic on this site, if one has a footing from which to speak and a motivation to help understanding... there are interested people willing to read and ask questions and learn. It's hard to attack someone's personal experience with merit, but it's not hard to just attack for the sake of attacking. The part that is mystifying to me is that the MP followers claim that this site hates MP and yet, they keep clawing into the site to tell us all how much we hate it. The real revelation of motivation is that this now comes in the one thread where real conversation they all have been bitching couldn't happen because of bias, was flowing and real information was being disseminated. I've been places where I was legitimately not wanted... guess what? I left. Why be somewhere you feel you are not wanted? Unless you have another motivation... which is where I'm not mystified anymore, because in people's actions and words, their intent becomes very clear. It's just so obvious why the MP'rs keep clawing their way in, they are lashing out. The serious cultivators here all have thriving practices in open systems and lineages with clear instruction from teachers who have results as powerful as MP's demi-gods. My teacher has done much more than anything I've seen in a JC video, to my own body. I think this might have something to do with all the attacks. When you are desperate to learn from a system which you believe is the only legitimate one and it's been closed to you and you see others blossoming around you and flowing freely, it makes for some very negative feelings which engender some serious cognitive dissonance. That engenders the pain body and then we have the mess which MP is known for... Again, well done SotG! Thanks for some solid info on MP. My taste is fulfilled and now MP is no longer an issue for me on the site as the easiest thing for me to do about 'the MP problem' is simply not click on the threads. Thunder Out...

I said straw man completely by mistake. I was intending to write straw dog and just wasn't paying attention. Sorry for any confusion there.

So: Sacred essence lies in the letting go of form in innate voluntary sacrifice to the process of returning to the source which we never left... ? that works for me for now anyway, that is ridiculously beautiful and participatory and acknowledges awareness without clinging... going to sleep on that one... thanks!

Wow this resonated for me. Thanks! *deep bow*

I was taught this as well and that distilled water being devoid of minerals by the distilling process will bond with and carry these particular inorganic excess minerals away. I've heard it provides relief for arthritis.

The way I read about Straw Dogs and how I'm using the term applies to literal dogs made of straw, loosely tied together in a rough dog shape, carried around and set out for the day of a festival, then at the end of the festival they are all just discarded into the streets and revert back to normal straw to be tromped, shat and walked on with no thought whatsoever.

Right on, so the essence of sacred would be the Sage's Virtue, which stems from his equal faithfulness to all. I can hang with that. but, purely devil's advocate here in the interest of chewing bones: This pops up... Say a tumor is on a patient's liver... the liver cells are sacred and the tumor is... How would a Sage view this? Is it just a matter of balance of Yin and Yang? I don't have much of a sacred view of viruses, or leeches, etc... Yet my son... family... friends... Somewhere in here is an inroad to be able to extend my compassion, but it's muddy, muddy water. Maybe it's not meant to be understood logically, but experienced... but I really enjoy chewing bones so... back to the tumor... Restore balance to the system and remove the conditions that allow the tumor to thrive? If so, then is balance considered sacred?

I suspect that those who really fit the 'normal' gender roles in society are pretty few. Who doesn't have a few 'odd' habits and tendencies? So far, no one I've ever met and got to know even remotely well falls in line with 'normal'.

I think humor is a great indicator of where the work lies. Wherever I am not permitted to laugh, it's bound to be that there is something to work on there. The humor to me reinforces the point he's making, since it 'demystifies' the topic, or 'brings it down' to the base, common level, much like water settling in its lowest point. The laughter in an of itself, to me, is proof to the non-sacred nature, for we are not permitted to laugh at the sacred are we? Aside from the Jesters, Fools and Heyokah, etc. The presence of this one in nearly all cultures, reminding us that these dogmas and clingons we support and prop up with 'strong belief' is naught but a straw dog. Albeit, maybe a really nice straw dog that we enjoy very much for a time. I really appreciate how he advances the hinge though, that there is life that is sacred and life that is not. Which gets me to my point about what is the definition of sacred. What does it mean to be sacred? Does it exist in anything/way other than in a thought?

I don't? whoa, wait till my son hears

Interesting question, but far more important to me is how to restore it?

For me most of the issues come from identification within duality under false pretenses. Yin and Yang are not separate, nor are male, female; light, dark; or any other 'opposites'. The process of gender identification is expressed individually, and forms within the parameters of family and culture and each individual expresses qualities of both in varying degrees throughout life, in a cyclical flow. Yin and Yang traits flow throughout all life in varying degrees of balance and extreme and no where is there an example of one without the other. Male and Female are not separate things, they are expressions in varying degrees of extreme, of the same thing. I possess and foster/cultivate many feminine qualities and I'm a six foot viking guy. My wife excels at many masculine activities and yet, is still utterly and literally a woman. For me the most effective focus to express peacefulness is to allow expression of full being in myself and any/all others. This includes all life, not just humans. The way I act in order to achieve this, is that I follow an impulse. The impulse comes in reaction to the conditions that I'm experiencing and it operates on a fairly simple premise from what I've gathered in observing it... - if no one is being harmed, leave it alone - if harm is being done, do I possess the wisdom to make it better? then act completely, without hesitation. - if not, leave it alone. - silence is often my best answer

I'd probably spend the day doing a few of the things that connect me to source. Hit the beach and listen to the timeless time-keeping of the waves. Always a deeply, instinctual and beautiful reminder that I am like a wave, unique and individual but one with the ocean simultaneously. Share a great meal with those I love. Tickle the bejesus out of my son and play. Take some time to just watch him. Stare into the eyes of my wife and hold her precious hands. and listen... so often these days, I see so many people desperate to 'teach' others. I'd take some time to listen, to the world, my family, my body, my breath. Which is cool to realize that I do these things daily already even a broken clock (analog) is right twice a day side note: after the recent and very unexpected death of my Father; I've followed his example and have predesignated my family on all of my accounts and deeds of property, so that when I pass, they will have no need to involve the probate courts or any lawyers. A few simple forms and all relevant funds will transfer to them without hassle. So the mechanical life stuff is no longer weighing on my mind. That's a freedom for me while I yet live. What a gift he gave my Sister and I when he did that for us. Allowing us the freedom to simply mourn, rather than wade into the wrestling match of court documents and legal processes.

and filled to the brim with water, that sparkles and refracts the lovely light... good stuff! life is stunningly amazing...

Kajenx is stirring the pot in a few threads, it's that same impulse that kids have to stomp on a calm puddle. The words are mostly meaningless, it's the desire to stir up shit that shines through...

watched the second half of that match... won't make that mistake again... lol gotta remember to watch the matches that matter...

The point he's making that I think gets to the heart of the straw dog principle is that the Tao is neutral and our innate sense of self gives us the false idea that some life is sacred and others are not, which I find to be patently ridiculous and untenable. Human life is not treated any differently in the Tao than advanced melanoma. Nor are stones given favor over flowers. Tao treats all as straw dogs.

Haven't noticed distilled affecting me that way. One Shaman I spoke to doesn't like distilled water as it's 'dead' to him. For me, I like the lack of minerals in it, as it can then carry excess minerals out of the system as it passes through the body. Side note: I also charge our water with sunlight and each 5 gallon bottle gets tuned with music tuned to Solfeggio Harmonics before we use it.