rookie

Hey Chris, Pretty brave of you to express that. So hang on Could it be that you sense the weakness that these girls have, like a huge blind spot when it comes to men, and so you feel safer with them than with a girl who has more self-esteem or self-worth? So you can have sex/relationship with less risk? Do you find a reason to break it off first? Here is an experiment you could try. Make friends, or at least be friendly with some girls who are more normal in this regard. It would help if they are close to your type physically, that is physically attractive even if you are not attracted to them for this reason. See what happens when you are around them for a while. Do your feelings change? This is just a guess on my part, but you may feel more vunerable around them. Try and watch your reactions when you feel vulnerable. Get to know them if you don't already. In any case, regardless of what happens in this experiment, I strongly suggest just getting your house in order. Start taking steps toward physical health (no additive substances), exercise, eat right, sleep regularly. Start forgiving yourself and others. Try to heal. Little by little. Go for stability. Build a healthy self, and later you can work on loosing it. I'm not sure if there is anything like it in Daoism, but I would actually suggest AA or some other offshoot of that organization. I pray that you find peace and wholeness, dude

Mak, Now this is the real deal. More posts like this, and some teaching in this direction I would very much appreciate. I am not interested in the minor convenience use of FU. For healing, of major conditions, sure, everyone will desire relief. But what you are pointing to here is similar to what Stigweard was saying, which I will paraphrase if I may as "To Master Oneself" which includes interaction with the enviornment, i.e., nature or the Dao. I think it is these deeper teachings that most people here would be interested in. Can this be taught at a distance? Or must it be done in person? (edited for clarity)

Agape, Are you finding that thinking about these issues is fruitful for you? Is there a draw, a pull, something leading you in this direction? Sometimes reflection, something like correlating experience with the ideas, beliefs, or mental map, can be useful at integrating my experience, or more correctly, at adjusting my map But as you can tell, I'm quite into the experiental side right now. I'm wondering how this is working out in your experience. Peace

I agree with all you have said. The key, however is in the doing, or being. Not the thinking. This is why I am adjusting my communication to reflect more actual experience rather than repeat concepts. I'm not implying that you (or anyone else) is doing that YaMu, but that is a trap for me. Once you become good at it, or maybe even before relating to the world through your "schema" rather than direct experience is a hard habit to break. I remember a Star Trek episode where an alien species communicated in stories. This seems to be a better way to relate experience. I think that goes for poetry as well. What I mean by that is one can hear or read words, understand them in the mind, let it become a part of your understanding or "model of the world" = schema, and stop there thinking you have it. That is the thinking. The doing or being is to experience it. This is where communication in stories or poetry may convey a feeling, a resonance can occur. Then there is knowing through experience. I'm such a rookie Yes, I like that too and think the part about unnecessary belief structures and justification is particulartly true. I think a somewhat quiet mind is also necessary, but that alone didn't get me there. I'm not completely sure what helped make the shift occur. But there is another component there.

Whatever happened to reducing, taking away all that isn't essential, to get to the essential? "To find truth, retreat from untruth" With all these extra beliefs, it must be crowded in one's head. Beliefs become lenses that our experience is filtered through. Most are quite unnecessary. To each their own I thought Daoism was a path of simplicity, or maybe that is my belief

This is quite true. Be careful about projecting your inner battles on the outside world.

Right on!

live long and prosper blessed be

Very nice wudangquan Thank you for those

What kind of superstitious poo is this I suppose you can't step on sidewalk cracks either If anyone really believes this poo I feel sorry for you Free yourself!

I would ask why your sexual feelings are unwanted? I think the body's natural intelligence is missed by so many cultures, including what I am seeing from the Chineese. We are so egotistical and think that we know what is truely best for ourselves with our mind. The mind sure has its place, for sure, but I would suggest really listening to your body, really allowing it to talk to you. There is so much there. So you have sexual feelings. Ok. So I have sexual feelings. So what? Maybe I act on them, maybe not. I'm not going to beat myself up over it. I am a man, I have a body, no matter what else is true, this part is true until I die. Sexual feelings are so natural and a part of being alive. So what? Why do so many think that sexual desires are bad or harmfull? Closet Catholics? heh heh just a joke there I don't want to offend anyone just pointing something out that may be overlooked

Yep, Maher is really trying to persuade you to accept his point of view. No doubt that some "religious" fanatics are very dangerous becasue of what they believe. It is not religion itself that would lead to violence and destruction like Maher is suggesting, but the content of their beliefs. Plenty of examples are out there. Quakers. How about our own Mak_Tin_Si? no doubt he practices a religion. Tibetan Budists today, early Christians before 300 AD, the examples of religious people being persecuted and not reacting with violence are out there. For some, a set of beliefs called a religion, can be a very useful and helpful tool. (Mak_Tin_Si as an example) A case could be made that each of us has our own religion consisting of our beliefs about life, death, meaning, causal relationships, or just how things work. These beliefs are there whether they are assumed, borrowed, picked up by conformity, or conciously chosen. Also, how many of you caught Maher's assertion that you cannot possibly know something about what happens to you after you die because he does not? Very high impression of himself I would say

Just a little rationality injected here....... If you consider what it takes to make some information available (writing a book, article, making a video) it would be pure charity to do it for free because there is a monetary cost involved. Teaching is even more expensive in terms of resources consumed because it requires the interaction of a teacher. Beyond the time and materials, there is no doubt that if something is offered freely then it tends to be undervalued by those who recieve it. If you are expecting your information or teaching to be free, you will be very limited indeed. If all information and teaching were free then there would be very little available. These are just the facts of life in our global society. Some of the things you see in here, and out there, are more about making money. But most are pretty fairly priced I would say. And most are sincerely offering something that they believe will benefit the users.

I know, layers and layers of FU I wonder if the community around the "Fu temple" that gets it all the time is without all these practical problems? probablty not. I'm not so concerned with FU. The power of belief is very powerful, I believe

That's a very interesting story Taomeow. Hope that egg doesn't come my way Have you heard of the documented case of the fellow who had a cancerous tumor and was given a few months to live? Then a cure was reported for this form of cancer. It was administered by his doctors and the tumor completely disapeared. It was later found that the cure was a mistake and didn't really cause the remission in general cases. The doctors didn't want to tell him this, but it came out in the news and the fellows cancer came right back after he heard the news report and believed it. He died in a few months. This is real proof of the power of belief. This is real magic I would say, all within your own being. If you truely believe in magic, it will be magic for you. I am interested in your statement that Fu magic, or any magic, is scientifically true. I'm not sure what oyu mean by that. Can you elaborate?

I'm in for $20. Merry Christmas

great, thanks for clearing that up I'm glad it was my misunderstanding. There has been so much weird "bleep" posted here lately I could have believed it

Obviously he has a lot to say It is more than I can or care to read, but some of it is very interesting. If it were up to a vote I would say let him do his thing

Really? And what are the effects on you when you do this? I haven't followed every post in this thread, but why would a person do this? Are you trying to harm someone? Control someone? The question that comes to my mind is what are you made of? What would motivate you to do such a thing? And how do you know you are doing anything except having a full fantasy?

To my knowledge the dark night is refering to the work of the christian mystic John of the Cross. Fr Thomas Keating describes it as a normal part of the chriatian comtemplative path that follows a period of being touched by grace. In this period the experience is so sweet and deeply pennetrates ones heart with the holy spirit. When it passes one is left feeling empty and dark. One has passed through a level where the ever present grace was needed. Now one is in a new stage that is dark partly becasue one cannot see on this level. Some consider it a test of their faith. I consider it a new space that one has entered. I am surprised to find the term used outside the teaching of christian mystics. It is particularly relevant to faith based systems because of the deep love and gratitude that is felt to the holy spirit after recieving grace through contemplative prayer. When this stage passes, it seems dark.

dao zhen, Thank you for that incredible post. I have read some descriptions of the process you went through with your teacher, but your personal experience and plain english make it much more real to me. Relating it to sexual feelings and desire and showing an example of, what is the right word, "transmutation" ..... well I just find it incredible to find something that really makes sense and is based on an individuals experience. Quite a lot of the things I read from translations and other traditions make little sense until someone explains them. I hope it would not offend you if I ask who was your teacher and how did you meet him? I dobt I will have the opportunity to do as you describe, find a teacher who could teach this, accept me as a student, do all the prepatory work........ But I do what I can from where I am. Starting from the begining I can answer your first question. Where do I wish to go? I am answering a call from deep inside me. I have no external tradition path to follow, so mine is to listen, feel, follow and abide with it the best that I can. The most accessable tradition to me is christianity, but the inner traditions of the monks and mystics are burried under far to many extra layers of junk that I could not wade through them. I don't tolerate dogma very well. I question most every belief. Everything I practice is in support of my own experiential internal path. I am not seeking power. I am seeking the truth of my being, existance, who or what I really am. I am seeking truth. Or maybe it is seeking me. Qigong and meditation support this path very well. The physical effects on my nervous system and tendons would be enough alone, but it is now part of a dailypractice that helps me try and build/keep a contemplative state. If I am cultivating anything I would say it is a state of conciousness, not necessarily a particular energy although I would not be surprised if there is a corresponding energy event or state in the body (one of them). On sexuality, celibacy is out of the question unless I wanted to part ways with my wife ;>) but seriously, I have always enjoyed sex, and have sometimes over done it (been too into it in my younger years), but have found a pretty good balance. The question of lust is a little more complex in my experience. I workout at a gym almost daily, and I find the presence of a healthy, attractive, physical female form very pleasing. Not to the point of getting an erection, not like that, but I feel a magnetic attraction, almost a physical pull. I don't know where it comes from. I cannot sense any harm in it. At worst it seems to be a distraction. I do not act on it, but I do feel a draw towards this healthy female energy. Every once in a while I wonder if I should do something about it. It just seems to be a normal part of life. I know that it is frequently a mutual attraction based on experiences and conversations with females who have become friends, and I have a pretty healthy and attractive male physical form and energy. So I am trying to be careful not to send encouraging signals. I keep it natural and innocent, but supressing this energy feels very wrong to my system. I always wear my gold band on my left hand and will even bring up my wife in conversation to get the point across. I obviously don't understand the female psyche very well. More than once I have had to make the point that I am in a commited relationship after what I thought was innocent friendship with a woman would turn towards her start making the sexual attraction signs. You know how women emanate the neutral, red light, or green light signal? When it turns to green light and you do not want to end up going there then it can get awkward. When I was single I would never pursue a woman with a wedding band on her hand. So I don't have this resolved yet. But I'm not sure it is a big deal as long as I can keep myself from these uncomfortable situations by controlling my own signals. Maybe that is where I need to work. Again, the practice that feels right to my system is not supressing, but maintaining an open and innocent state of mind and intention. Attraction comes, then goes, like the weather. Maybe I have gone a little far, but these are some of my personal experiences with sexuality and lust. Peace to all Said like a true 20yr old Please don't take any offense in that statement. Enjoy the ride. I would be suprised if it remains quite that clear cut and simple as you go on. But that is what makes the journey worth taking, all the unknown in your future

Thank you for the link markem. I will look into it.

This implies that the proper state of a human being is non-sexual. I would assume procreation would be ok. But should it be done without physical enjoyment? You are basically saying that all sexual feelings are harmful and caused by present or past thoughts. Would you take this philosophy to the point of saying that all forms of good feelings, pleasant sensations, are harmfull? What about enjoying an experience like a sunset? or anything in the present moment? Is enjoying the taste of a ripe peach the same thing? The sensations are enjoyable. I wonder why. Why is eating rotten food not enjoyable? How about a good nights sleep? Anything that feels good in any way is bad? Or is it the attachment to it that is the problem?

So if you are a taoist living in the southern hemisphere do you do this in June? How about if you are living on the equator where there are no seasons?