Birch

I don't think you have misunderstood. I think there's something along those lines working in there. Although as far as I can recall from reading, psychoanalysis didn't actually 'cure' anyone. Indeed it got used elsewhere to make people sicker, but I digress. The understanding is given to you by someone/something else and you concur in one way or another. The understanding has to be good and resonant with whatever is bothering you for this to happen, as far as I can tell so far. Then the other person fixes it (although I suppose one can work it on oneself, but I haven't gotten very practiced at it yet) and then you don't have the thing bothering you anymore. If you consider how you feel about it, it's just sort of 'huh, what?, not anything." I feel it has more affinity with homeopathy and what I've understood to be "shamanic" practices. The other thing that I find interesting is that it seems to 'work' without me having to invest any particular belief in it. I guess the real test of it would be to use it on serious physical issues.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_globalupraising26.htm I should add that this video neither carried my assent nor my dissent.

Thanks for your report Jetsun. I've been reading all I can get on Ayahausca and DMT for a while. I haven't tried it (yet) as I don't like the idea of throwing up and crapping all over the place, definitely a control issue:-) From what I've read, the vine is a natural purgative (handy if you live in parasite-infected places). From what I understand the diet is to ensure proper digestion of the active principles while not adding competing stimulants to the mix. I was going to write a post about the attempts of many practices really being about getting to DMT-producing-level physiology. I don't think churchgoers would laugh if the whole sacrament and ceremony was actually about 'getting high' though However, more seriously, I do believe the plant allows people to access other dimensions of reality consciousness. There are a few 'Ayahausca churches' with branches all over the world, as well as non-denominational setups (OAS). I've also read that as far as 'healing' goes, it's tough to ascertain because it has been made a controlled substance in many countries. I'm glad you're finding help :-) I posted a documentary on it in the books section (because there isn't a films section :-))

Oh that. I had a direct experience with that and for a while. I was doing my very best to be the best, nicest character in everyone's dreams but I gave up. Too much work.

I just couldn't get past the "eats the dinner". Maybe if the aspiring enlightened man attempted cooking on occasion he might break out of his neatly-scripted little life and get somewhere. What decade were you referring to Mr Slopps? I don't think i've heard of this type of lifestyle since 1970 - something. Do people still do that?

One "thing" i don't "get" DB is to what conditions are you referring? Oh, another thing, this "illusion" idea. I don't see how there could be one.

Excellent post Steve:-) I read elsewhere (can't recall where) that other peoples have completely different words for different "truths". One of the words refers to what you have personally experienced directly. The other one refers to what someone else has experienced directly and then conveyed to you. The latter being how most children learn about the world (and the words). I personally find that people get caught up too much in the "but it's true" TV reporting.

I only just started dabbling with it. My "short summary" is that it's an intuitive "thing". If thing there is. From my "getting" of it so far it goes: - indentify what's bothering you (one tends to know:-)) - find reason (this is the fun part IMO/IME) for your hook into what's bothering you - resolve reason to point of no more hook And that's about it. But i just started dabbling so there you have my total understanding:-(

Great post DB! I'm not quite sure that I'm wholly either side of the "not mattering". I'm sure people who know can tell. I suspect there's "bits" left over here and there. It's a messy business IMO/IME. I don't know anything about the things you mentioned.

So just stop at the most recent "why" you can recall:-)

Hmm, from what i minimally understand about any text, if "examples" there are, then at best they are metaphors "pointing" at actual situations in which one could actually "know" anything. I appreciate that texts may have been clouded/coded to dissimulate the real "stuff" of practices under heavy symbolism that only folks "with the keys" ought to be able to unlock. But see here, if you have moved anywhere close to "enlightenment" then no keys are needed and paradoxically the very same keys are allowed to fall into the hands of people who would seek to have power over others. A44holes:-) Not saying you are one:-)

So what does that say about math:-)? I guess it says it ought not to be used in place of anything real:-) Oh, I'm sure a great mathematician could elaborate a pumpkin-bread equation.

Oh I know it is I just want to know why it is.

That's what I was trying to get at. WHY has 'everyone' experienced trauma? I think that by itself is very weird. Unless we're saying 'trauma' is just/also an accumulation that gets built up (would 'conditioning' qualify for this marker?) . I mean actually living, is that 'traumatic'?

The rest of the words. Not in bold. What were they there for? You could have just put the bolded stuff by itself. But I read through the rest and was attempting to 'get it'.

Ok, what I've read about this stuff is that: - alcohol is grounding. - sex energy 'dissipated' means its not available for 'other stuff' The 'other stuff' is what the practitioners want to get to so they say 'no' to the stuff that prevents them from doing it. How a 'practical' matter becomes a moral issue is kind of funny. But whatever.

And why not? I say be careful what you ask for OP, I guess 'a' reason for not giving you hints for the hookup could be that you'd blow a fuse somewhere and no-one wants to feel responsible for that kind of damage IMO/IME. Well, I sure as hell don't want to :-) If you want it, you'll find it :-) Not trying to be obtuse. What I'm referring to is IMO/IME a function of consciousness and attention. If you remain consistent in your goal but allow for winding roads sort of thing :-)

"deep trauma release which someone might not need every day " Which I really hope not! Bercelli wrote in the book that he was teaching it to populations who had seen some terrible violence/injuries/war etc. I mean, if folks who are otherwise not confronted with terrible violence/injuries/war are resorting to deep trauma release exercises, where is this trauma coming from in the first place?

That's alright. I didn't say I felt like I'm not it BTW :-) Just so I'm clear about that.

"Why does devotion need a gap between the subject and object of devotion?" Ur, because otherwise you'd be it? I see this Bhakti thing as an attempt to provoke feelings that may be 'natural' in some people 'post- 'it' a kind of 'fake it until you make it' like lots of practices. Perhaps imitation is a form of flattery but it's nowhere near sincere if you have to drag sentiments out of folks. At least other churches have the good grace to use stirring music, coloured lights and sex-death imagery. Oh well, I suppose, once you do it enough it becomes 'natural' - like other things. I don't think I could tell a 'proper' daoist concept from a foreign thing. Ironically the endgame of the foreign-thing being to drop all of those concepts, right? Or is that not it?

Cat-dragon with an overabundance of water (to spare!) to the, uh, "rescue" of my water-deficient fellow bums! What can i do fer ya ? Ok. Whatever;-) TaoMeow, excellent post as usual! Love to hear more about the coming rebellion:-)

Well, that's it. I think I'm just as much of an idiot with silly ideas as i was "before" i realised i was an idiot with silly ideas. It still hurts sometimes and i don't know what I'm doing. Probably something wrong as usual. Not to wave a hand over responsibility but sometimes i have no consciousness of what probably looks obvious to other people. Should i be "fixing" it all? Isn't that what buggered things up in the first place? I'm having a "duh" moment.

Alright, let's admit i like the less-travelled route:-) Doesn't devotion require a gap between you and the objects of devotion? I wake up in the morning because i've either slept enough or because i told someone i'd be somewhere to do something or i want to do something. The main stuff i think about before falling asleep is how to rid myself of my stupidity and dumb reactions and ideas. No, not much concerned about cars and clothes. A bit more concerned about lethargy and how little i care about anyone apart from myself.