Birch

You may like http://neilkramer.com/reality-simulation-culture.html (Note: I just discovered this guy and his website which I'm shamelessly plugging because I agree with much of what he is writing, especially in light of this thread, this forum and current world events. However, as always, I could be wrong in this and just because I like and agree with him, lack critical distance. There used to be an old-school exercise where proponents and opponents would have to switch sides and argue each others' position. I'm tempted to suggest that here as a fun thing to do, but I see the folks are already neatly ranged into factions and probably wouldn't find that fun at all.)

Well the wu-wei thing could point to naturally resolving. I think it does but i have a hard time explaining why. It's like there's no "decided" course of action but action (included non-action) nevertheless springs forth with no effort. Whereas action from decision or effort points to something created. Oh I'm not getting at it very well but in experience there are feelings that go with this stuff. Karma comes into being at all points at which there is this created effort IME and disappears in wu-wei which is why IMO karma seems so unfathomable. It's non-linear. I don't believe that reincarnation is necessary for it either.

Interesting points Mr Slopps. Leaving practice paths aside for a moment, we could also look at the "healing professions" more widely and what use stories are in that context. Patient puts faith in doctor to do something because doctor has a map of patients that came at some price of effort (medschool) and (one hopes) practical getting of results with other patients. But who is actually doing the healing ( if it does occur)? Patient's body, albeit in response and in relationship with the doctor and the stories and the maps. Would the healing still "work" if every aspect of the process was explained in a transparent manner? "Oh i'm just using this desk i'm sitting behind as a prop to convey authority so i can seem to you to be more convincing." And "in order to make you feel less anxious, I'm going to send you for a general test i know i won't find anything on anyway." Or "Your flu should clear up with 5 days of these antibiotics". (The latter is a bad call, however. Over-prescribing antibiotics in non-necessary situations paving the way for bacterial resistence, apparently...) It's possible that some patients would be outraged if doctors were more transparent. Does this mean they currenly lack integrity? That does sound like an interesting approach 5ET has.

It all seems a bit complicated to me. Couldn't a contemporary practice just come out and say "here it is, here's what to do" without the bells and whistles and made up stuff? But then people probably wouldn't even try it. I think bells And whistles and rattles and feathers and snakeskins work, which is why they get used. If i recall correctly, Ya Mu has a crazy narrative in his book intro too. in fact, get anyone to tell you their story and how they got to be where they are and explain their current understanding and i almost guarantee there will be some falsehoods in there somewhere. I've explained before about where i stand on "taking advantage". We all know when we're doing it. Don't we? (I don't know the answer)

You may like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH4idCfj2x0&feature=related

You may like http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation

Oh no wait 'chica'. Scam-pie-man. I really didn't want to 'white-knight y'all' pffffff. Yo MPG, you look hot :-) -----not very spiritual moment ends----

Well the 'willfull' part is really the part I'd like to get to. If, as you say, all that sh*t has been going down for over half a century then yeah, maybe a very faint line. But it's freakin fainter by now. SB, my media posts are *serious* with respect to Global Issues, I just happen to have a different take on many things. I feel like adding another one. What is produced 'art-side' ought not to be neglected in understanding IME/IMO The Zeff-Side folks were tongue in cheek. Maybe the Young Joc video was, I dunno. Colbert is tongue in cheek. The Office - well. But why is any of this funny? At various points in cultivation, 'laughing at it all' is mentioned. I'm curious about that. Edit: more Zeff-Side on my PPF

I don't feel like ignoring it. The scammer-dude apparently ripped a bunch of people off. Then came back to attempt to id-theft MPG and then came back to...well, now I don't know what he's back for. Sure, he must have lost some $$$ with being called on it but if he was a real operator he'd have closed case and gone scam some other folks IMO. My take is he's hanging out here for some other reason but I don't know what it is and I'm still curious (sorry, yes it's a 'personality defect' ) Need help scam-pie-dude? I mean aside from getting banned from a forum:-)

"Anyone who thinks, as do plenty on this board, that the aberration on one of Jupiter's moons is actually a spacecraft of a benevolent alien culture gearing up to save us actually deserves what they get" I don't know if they believe as much as they hope for it. IMO it's just (another) messianic transposition. And I don't even know if they 'deserve' it or not. Might they just have a specific type of blinder on? Kind of like the 'all's well in the free market' mantra (note I'm not against free markets but I don't think I even have an example of one). Can you really fault people for being wrong? I suppose you can. Can you fault them for believing what they've been spoon fed? I suppose you can. I dunno, it seems to me to be a tricky question.

Suggest he get help of some kind?

Wow! Way to go Apech! Oh well, guess I'll keep a lid on my curiosity on that one:-)

"once the research is very thorough and detailed it will be pushed on people by all doctors, all therapists, by personal trainers and gyms, by corporations who want their employes to be healthy, by universities who think it will lead to better results amongst ste students, by schools who think the same etc. In addition people will start doing it more on their own because they see it as a way to a happiness beyond what they even thought possible. " Um, I'm not very happy about this "pushed on" idea. Is that what you meant? IME meditation is as much about understanding one's impediments to happiness as it is about actually generating it. I'm not in favour of the "spiritual cow" who chews on the cud of her own suppressed emotions while doing nothing to change the situation. I also believe it's possible to be generally "happy" while also being enraged at certain "world"'situations. That's what rage is for IMO, it's a "change agent". Now this doesn't necessarily equate to taking to the streets and bashing people over the head. In fact IMO that's a misuse of rage. A "good" rage IMO is a slow-burning fuel, much like desire:-) Not to be misunderstood as the need to act immediately, just the need to act.

I figure learning detachment is useful for whatever you deem it useful for. Even those buddhists suggest not to get attached to detachment either. It's sort of like learning to drive, rather than being driven IME/IMO. I still maintain the 'self' to be gotten rid of is the conditional construct created to protect oneself (true-self) in situations that require it. But I should add, 'remembering' is just as important. It's important post-circumstances/event in which you 'constructed' because you want full faculty of consciousness for all the other moments.You don't want the new moments getting understood through the previous (now not appropriate) construct(s). Oh yeah, it's like being a Transformer then getting 'stuck' in airplane-mode when you need to have wheels. Or something like that.

I dunno witch. I think there's precog in a "know thyself" and "know history" kind of way. I don't know how it relates to a "collective" future since IMO timelines are quite personal and everyone and everything are at different stages of development. Folks that go on seemingly linear routes maybe find them bizarrely circular in retrospect. It would be easier IMO if i knew more about reality itself IMO but i don't. I know quite a lot about "this here reality" but only because I'm living it. I have had moments where I've felt an actual branching of "my path" in a different direction as a result of choice but that's about it. What one might speculate about are probablities based on current conditions but those seem to turn up weird results because most things that are recognized as "future" have to be so radically different from now or before in order to be recognizable as such. Which is exactly how the folks willing to lead others where they want proceed. Softly softly catchee monkey:-) So to get to "what's up" one would have to IMO look at what looks like something familiar but not quite.

Yes it is! Wouldn't however be the first time a "spiritual teacher" did something like that- or worse. What i do find kind of strange, if the pie-thief is one and same with the pie-less then why also go online to taunt the folks they have hypothetically scammed? Anyway, since the pie-piper is here, why not just ask? No_pie, are you one and the same person who allegedly scammed Mo_pie out of $100? If so, what's your reason for coming online with that screename? If not, same question:-) I'm really really curious now:-)

I'm more in favour of having the ridiculous have no pie and eat it:-) Unless it gets nasty and the pie-bald one infringes insult policy or whatever. If ridiculous were banned i'd have been so several times:-) If Mr Mo_pie is able to suffer the ridiculous as nothing personal then IMO some amount of fun could be had with this pie-rat:-)

What if i don't believe in any of that? I'm not saying it's neither not the case nor a wonderful metaphor. And i'd certainly not want to irk a talented energy-worker:-) It just happens to be (not so, not yet) (for me) as much as it was so (then) for that other person. Why should my "just so, so far" have to be set against an experience i have not (yet) had? I'd love to concede and reassure that I've had other experiences that might/could fit as "something like" what was expressed. I don't think that would be honest of me. Hopefully you won't find this difficult of me Gerard because i am willing to accept that all manners of beings and events take place in the multiverse. And i don't think they're all necessarily significative of specific belief systems. Although they might be, which is in itself pretty rockin' IMO:-) The book i linked to is right up your alley with this stuff btw:-) Very well written IMO.

Sicker :-) http://www.ted.com/talks/view/lang/eng//id/814

Hmm, it's an online forum. And a 'spiritual' one at that. It's a fire phase. It's going 'off-track' because that's what fire phases do (if I can remember correctly). You come to TTB's and don't want 'weird'- that's like going to Austin and hating the "Keep Austin Weird" bumper stickers. If you want something 'on track' go to Mensa - tied up tight:-). Sierra club. Skeptics society. Those guys who can count cards. The comments section of Huff post or Slate. Freemasons... There's a LOT of smart people out there. My only problem with many of them is that they are 'system smart' and their system is IMO/IME limited :-)

I read it already. See thing here Mr Sinfest is if you establish yourself as the judge of smarts, well, damn near implies that you wouldn't recognize other smarts unless they came up behind you and shouted 'Hey I'm smarter than you are' in a way you'd 'get it' and that would still be inside your definition of 'smarts'. But you seem to want something else. I'd wager, if you're looking for a difference in mindset and thought-process and understanding in all kinds of ways, well, I'd just kind of hang around differences.

Now that's just annoying and insulting :-) Who do you need to show up to be convinced? Oh yeah, a 'smart' person. If I've told you buddha's want off the wheel, it's not something I made up. WHY they want off the wheel, well that's their business. Something to do with 'suffering' apparently.

"Buddhas can't reincarnate." Hmm, I reckon they can, I just don't think they 'want' to anymore, is all. So there it is. And why wouldn't one 'want' to? Under what conditions would one prefer non-incarnation nowhere to incarnation somewhere? I happen to prefer incarnation, which make me biased. Obviously :-)

Nice Gerard. You might like http://www.amazon.com/Farther-Shores-Exploring-Near-Death-Experiences/dp/0006386245