Birch

"...ability to reincarnate" Ha, you weren't smart enough to pick up on this one. All of this 'get off the wheel' gig when you've hardly even had a proper go on it :-) Anyway, why are you asking that question here?

"For one thing (unless we're talking about organized crime, violent crime, etc) a poor or middle class person simply doesn't have command of as much resources to assist in being venal, spiteful, greedy, scheming, backstabbing and bastardly. At least his/her bastardly ways are limited in scope to the reach of the resources under his/her command. As control of resources increases the damage done when under the Dark Side of the Force increases as well. " If this is the case (unfortunately meaning i'd have to give up my "people are basically nice" idea i was trying to plug in the violence thread) then it only requires the system change, not the people. Simple! I dunno, i'd have a hard time trying to philosophically defend such a change to people who are obviously benefitting from it. What i don't get though, is why people who are obviously not benefitting from it defend it. So they must be getting something out of it??

Yes, crisis! No to arresting said crisis for...well, why exactly? Oh yeah, forgot, we have a pill/procedure for pretty much every aspect of life:-) I should add there do seem to be a lot of switched-on folks who have experience with and can support difficult awakenings. I still count TTB's as a place worth stopping by on path:-)

"(Remember, I have been married three times.)" Not to me you haven't:-)

You were taught the same thing as my old Dad Mr MH. I think his Dad taught him. He explained it to me:-) It's cute Mr MH but i doubt it gets us anywhere :-) "yes dear" :-p And if you think about it a bit, it might be pretty uncool...

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I do have a bit more faith in the young however. What i see are the hippy trailblazers who brought many of these practices back to cultures not articulated to deal with them. That could be a good thing because it could rip the culture apart and show us what's not working very fast. On the other hand if we're ill-equipped to deal with spiritual casualties due to our culture, i think that might need to be fixed first. Stop throwing people who report unusual experiences or perceptions of the world into psych-wards:-)

Difficult, doesn't mean impossible Mr MH. When i hear people defending their violence i have to wonder what's at stake. Conflict, yes, due to differences in ways of getting needs met. Agreed we're in a violent system. Always wary about justifications concerning "nature" within contrived circumstances that seek to justify the existence of said contrived circumstances. "we had to chain that dog up he's so mean"

not me.

Mr MH, A child raised by violent people could just as well turn out to abhor violence of any kind. I don't think anything is carved in stone Mr MH. It does IMO say something both about leaving children to be raised by less than a few people (see TaoMoew's timely 'Mother's curse' thread) and the stories that we are fed/feed into about 'our nature'. I figure the former and the latter very much carve things out for us and may influence our behaviour much more than one would like to admit. This is IMO the 'conditioning' many 'paths' seek to rid a person of and many other 'bodies' (for want of a better word) seek to take advantage of. What does it say about our conditioning, if many 'spiritual' paths refer to the outcome of of a human on that path as being a loving, peaceful, etc etc human being AND which is also referred to as what we started out as. So I'd personally make a distinction (sorry) between 'conditioned human nature' and actual 'human nature' which is what people come in with. Y'know "if you want a mean dog, beat the puppy". Then we say the dog is a mean MTFR.

Great post TaoMoew! Another one I'll need to slink away and ponder for several years before I can re-express anything much related to it:-) Do you think this is why TTC refers to 'getting the family right'? and then the 'rest' is 'right'? Of course, I don't know what 'right' means when it comes to people who actually use(d) the TTC to govern, but I'm assuming they understood/understand the role of the mother (any mother).

I liked that Kin Wilbur article about it - if I can find, will post. Something along the lines of (to paraphrase very badly) 'if it's going through your genitals it's sexual energy, if it's going through your heart, it's heart energy, if it's going through your knees, it's knee energy which is why you don't have knee orgasms' He mentioned something about it (paraphrasing to the point of my own (mis?) understanding) being the clamping down or resistance which results in the sexual organs getting to 'drive' above and beyond any other expression. That has a lot of implications, not least of all some ideas about the 'drive to reproduce' which might have nothing at all to do with the wish to see a lovely new person incarnate, but a person that can do the things I didn't/couldn't. Sorry, it's a bit Freudian-sounding but I wonder... HJNT, IMO everyone could do with a good lay from time to time

Mr Vortex, i rely heavily on emptiness as an antidote to the rantings your silly alpha-delta scheme seems to bring to my mind. I know it's unlikely you'll stop this stuff but i wanted to cheerfully remind you that men and women are individually as different as collectively similar. Continuum Mr Vortex:-)

Deci-Belle, you've nailed it (no pun intended:-)) Not that i believe in karma. I do believe in resolution, no, rather I've experienced resolution in many forms. One can accelerate it by acheiving wu-wei (right as in appropriate relative and not "good or bad" to all conditions prior, present and future) and one can acheive it by living one's life with no conscious intention to acheive anything better or fear anything worse than whatever is at any given anything. However, personally i enjoy metaphor and narrative and moments and life in general. Cutting chords with people is something I've tried too. But the effects are weird IME. I'm currently experimenting with other stuff that's not quite as brutal, nor requires anyone else to get "cut off" from whatever they're getting from "me". That's their business:-)

I took at quick look at the eugenics-watch website this morning. Interesting. Look, religion is a construct that informs people how to live, not to explain reality. IME/IMO if you're going to get anywhere near reality, the vehicles of religion have to be dropped. Do people need to be told what reality is? If so, why? If not, why not?

A quick gander at Wikipedia's "population control" entry doesn't mention them but does mention some other "well-knowns" and i found the references interesting. Indeed, some days I'm surprised to be still alive despite everything:-) I think as long as people who research and share information get labelled "conspiracy theorists" then some alternative solutions to many of our collective issues are going to escape the "people at the top". I'm already pretty used to having many of my "choices" nudged or "gently steered" as if i were patently incapable of making choices for myself. I find it infantilizing and downright disrespectful. In times like these, i crave for karmic retribution i would otherwise shrug off as an idiocy:-)

Hmm, interesting. Time to go gopher hunting again. Thanks Manitou!

Nah man, you've noticed it:-) You'll also notice I'm not always in agreement with every aspect of it (hence the 'talking stick' jibe to Manitou). But IMO/IME the 'job' is to understand on what level anything (anything at all) 'manifests'. IMO/IME it's one thing (sic) to establish oneself as a mental/physical/emotional causal agent and quite another to understand that, rather than the reverse (i.e. "everything happens to me" or "I do everything".) there is an interaction of some kind. And here, kindness to Manitou and 5ET for their attempts (and probable successes) in getting this stuff across. See also "Attribution theory" - go Google it;-) for a 'contemporary' take. What about 'things' that are 'manifest' at different levels to which I am not privy? Since my attention is "elsewhere" (might also be termed 'ignorance' or 'denial' based on a different perspective, or 'seeing' what I cannot) where is the "manifestation"? In other words, the world economy can be tanking despite me. And most likely in spite of me. See other thread where we discuss 'what to do':-) Many levels :-) Edited: Here's a few http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribution_(psychology)

I agree SB. I also figure that while that stuff is definitely valid, it's also 'slower' - and we could also get into what I'd term "time-distortion" related to this at some point. What would you do, what could you achieve if you had "all the time in the world"? It's related IMO to what I'd call "lineage". Ok, I admit it sounds a bit barking batty 'off the top', but the consistent (what I'd call) 'modern insistence' that the person become/embrace the 'individual' while at the same time insisting that he or she is also part of the 'public' is IMO something worth looking at. Not because individuals or the public are anything 'negative' IMO but because there's a point in doing so. What's the point?

This one is for Informer. There was another thread that might have seemed more appropriate but I couldn't find it anymore http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/doublex/2011/09/pregnancy_evolution_a_new_nature_genetics_paper_may_explain_why_.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_plugin_activity ----caveat alert ----- make sure that the journalist has correctly reported the experimental results. ---caveat alert------

Wonderful expression of it Everything :-)

Another one http://www.amazon.com/Dictators-Handbook-Behavior-Almost-Politics/dp/161039044X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317766015&sr=1-1 Thing is SB. All this reading is great. But...well, it's like reading about qi-gong and not doing it. I figure if TaoMeow is right then there are other ways that don't involve standing around Wall St while folks comment that it's not up to much.

I've considered it but it looks like too much work. And I don't want to spend evenings in a chilly church hall or dance studio with a bunch of women who have suddenly decided to "empower" themselves. I find that kind of thing depressing as hell. But maybe I should check it out

How about moving from 'conspiracy theorist' to 'economic relations theorist'? I believe many in the world are somewhat past thinking their beloved authorities are either wholly good or wholly bad. Isn't the point to find solutions that don't reside on previous 'systems' that have pretty much proven not to 'work' (depending of course in whose favour?) http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/04/15/the_dictator_s_handbook No sign in http://www.amazon.com/Dictators-Handbook-Behavior-Almost-Politics/dp/161039044X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317766015&sr=1-1

I wasn't ever one because they didn't have them where I was. But beware, I did do modern dance Manitou, your talking-stick is in my eye again. isn't that interesting :-)? Karma-clearing suggestions between us warmly received :-)