Birch

Oh no. I find myself agreeing with VJ Nice posts! As I tend to see it (these days) I suspect that any 'all or nothing' perspective might be off the mark (of reality). I also agreed with H_E that self-blame/ hatred is dangerous. IMO/IME in an 'everyone for themselves' culture that already teaches people to self-blame/hate, adding additional weight of responsibility for every single thing that happens to a person could (and likely does) tip some folks over the edge. Perhaps not everyone has that 'warrior' stance in life and some have been so battered by it that to suggest they chose the circumstances is IMO added cruelty and may even precipitate further illness and hardship by, ironically, the same mechanisms that might have helped them to heal and prosper. The 'blame the victim' stance is not something I choose to endorse (note, that I'm not a "victim" although I might be a target sometimes.) At the same time, I do believe we have some choice in how we consider our experience of any given circumstances and respond. I think that's where 'responsibility' comes in. I think it also might be an easy 'set it and forget it' technique to consider that everything is manifested by oneself but IMO/IME that leaves little room for others' sovereignty and, paradoxically, their responsibility and one's own compassion towards them. I don't think I explained that last part very well so hopefully you get the idea I want to convey :-)

Interesting post GIH. But why always with the 'either or' stuff? If I consider it, I see consciousness like a flame that is passed on. Saying it arises from the brain only is like claiming virgin birth IMO

"spiritual programming." Can you explain this???

DOH! You said the r-word in a thread manifested by me and co-manifested by VJ and Center and Jetsun and Clarity. I might have to 'unthink' that. And Mr Cow and Mahberry. Edited to add co-manifesters

Mind uses body? What gives with the samksaras then? Sometimes I feel like my body is using me :-) Anyway. it's interesting. Please dogoon

Oh you

Yes we are, because I was actually thinking about becoming a very serious Catholic Not tormented neither :-)

"Well, I think it is only fair to repeat the entire sentence. Hehehe. "From what I have read of you, you like to think too much for yourself and that would be an obstacle to your being too serious about any religion."" Point taken. Nicely done. However, there's still that 'too much' in there :-) And the other stuff about religion. I don't doubt that there are people in religions who fully understand what they're doing:-) Just you watch me become a 'serious Catholic' ;-) (BTW, as close to Tantrism as I can figure for now )

Why??

" you like to think too much for yourself" Yes, it seems that doesn't always go down so well with other folks :-( Hence an outlet on a forum :-) Anyways, what's 'too much' Mr MH? I'm not some 'rolling head' either :-)

"there is no wisdom, no attainment, no buddhahood" Right on Xabir :-) Here's my take. So why oh why persist in suggesting there might be (wisdom, attainment, buddhahood)? How many people are lost down that path? And I don't mean that lightly. It's a big deal to play with one's sense of self/identity/faith/beliefs. I'd say maybe (for me) even more today than in the past. It's all fine IME/IMO to suggest that we have moral conduct (as if people would otherwise be naturally immoral, jeez, have some faith :-)) But I have a preference for giving people the techniques, tools, acceptance and support they need/want to realise whatever they need to by themselves (anyway, who's going to do it for you ?)

Thanks ZerosTao. That was well weird. Hellfire and brimstone...

Oh, that was very good. Reading it as a predominately 'water' person ;-) Are super-e and e split from each other? Do they 'talk'? Do you figure some people might have more of a tendency to be 'run' by 'super-e'? If so, why? What would be the conditions? I'm asking so that if we know what they are, we might do something about them :-)

Good post Mr MH. Snake people in South DKTA? Show me! "I know you are interested in Buddhism" Yes, like a flower is interested in the composition of weedkiller :-) Although I can't say whether it's the religion itself that I have at issue or the people who speak for it and lead others (badly?). Ultimately, one leads oneself, although I've had a few run-ins with some buddhists of various stripes in dreams. But that's a whole n'other thread :-)

Well, see, Mr MH, I have to question this one :-) Your whole self knows that you can't fly (given you're not a flying form) so where on earth would any desire to fly come from in the first place? Except from something that is not your whole self. So even considering this flying thing in order to discount it is a tricky play from something other than your whole self IMO. BTW, I'm not in favour of ego-destruction, rather integration and understanding it in relation to whole you. Hence my bias against mind-yoga only and my bias for real-life meat-space actions combined with mindfulness. But lets have some fun too :-)

Excellent post Ralis! I think a lot of mundane 'belief-systems' fall down or cause harm in the face of reality. An example might be that one can expect to stay at the same corporate job for life today or that your bank manager is really looking out for your interests ;-). I think we (me?) tend to want go 'higher' all too fast and talk about 'love' and 'self' and things when there are belief-systems that could do with being binned for very practical reasons like health and financial sanity and good relationships with self and others. Are all belief systems tied into your sense of identity? Well, here's where my understanding of 'no-self' works it for me (and not the other way around) Since I am NOT this collection of beliefs, I can drop them in the face of reality without any real discomfort. And even if it turns out that I AM this collection of beliefs, if can drop them in the face of reality without discomfort then where's the problem? I guess it's a problem if I want it to be. I mentioned in a post to TaoMeow about the idea of 'going hunting' for all my lost time. Should I also go hunting for all my erroneous beliefs? Or wait quietly and pounce on them when I see them show up and cause me or others harm in the face of reality? Sometimes I don't think they're all (the beliefs) going to show up at once because there's nothing real for them to break against. Besides, I went through a real period of 'shit hitting the fan' with this stuff so I'm quite glad for the break :-)

oh.

" elitist spiritual types " "You rang...sirrrr"?

Um, point made here ----- It was actually Osho's crazy suit that reminded me of BF. Here My link

Or just take longer Anyway, turns out I'm lazy as hell, so I gave up yoga and took up qi-gong.

The 'what' world 'must also be emptied' of 'what'? Sorry, I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I'm not very sure I understand why you have to 'empty' anything. And if you do, what do you empty it of exactly?

Wonderful share. Thank you Would you mind if I asked what people would rate as their top 5 without being anywhere near a deathbed?

"leave me wanting more" More of what? Oh alright, I should explain that IME there's a point at which we (or maybe just me) 'practice-hop' because the one we have it's actually working It might not be your case and certainly, many things do not work for many people. But I felt I had to point that one out. Sorry if it's not applicable :-)

Excellent post Otis. Have we had that discussion about mind vs body yoga in a while? Might be time for one of those :-) My take is that it's all together :-) The 'splitty' stuff is off-path IME/IMO whichever way you slice and dice it. I was pondering the Shen (s?) earlier today and I was feeling pretty happy they were all with me and not off roaming places. But I think to have them want to stay with you, well, that's IMO/IME part of practice. I think I prefer the Shens to just the one or two considerations when it comes to self. I recall one of my teachers mentioning the body as a garden.

Closet Taoist