Birch

I'd visualize my mother stuck inside the swiss cheese from where she can't get out and bug me. Or maybe just her eating a bunch of swiss cheese so she doesn't start in on me. I think it's far too "spiritually advanced" to ask me to be around my family for any real length of time. I know where my limits are with them and when I reach them, I leave. I've found it easier if I bring people with me, because my mother is too busy trying to impress that she leaves me alone. Works a charm Aside from that, i don't force myself to be with them or love them. Causes me more pain and suffering than anything else so I concentrate on the people I do want to be around and love. I know the "mirror" story gets thrown around a lot. I'm not so sure about that one any more.

Thanks for this. Has been borne out of my own experience too. Although I still don't have a teacher, except myself.

"If you like the teachings, learn them. But religion? Heck no." Top of da mornin to ya GIH. I've been trying to figure out how to change that one for a while. But when it comes to actual History, I'd probably change the way it's written to be more reflective of what happened. Because the thing is, I just don't know.

Thanks Susan and Santi. Sending the good stuff through for all.

Hey Mr West, Been a while! One of those posts I enjoy and feels close to what I've experienced (so far). It's always nice when someone abounds in one's "own" direction. Alway horrible when someone doesn't. Yet I suspect I ought to welcome them both and discard them both equally.

What makes you reckon I'm drinking? Is it because I'm in disagreement with you tonight? Are you drinking yourself? By "fellow bums" - are you referring to yourself? Would I let that other fellow bums speak for themselves? I think that was the spirit of my post. I'll take your response as an individual dissent (diss) on your part although my current practice is "don't take anything personally". I've found through your post that indeed I don't take it personally. Wow. That's so cool Thank you! Hopefully you "got"/"grokked" that that all I was doing was an attempt to widen the perspective of "what the purpose of life is" to somewhere just over (or under, or beside) what a person might consider it is. Just an attempt. Didn't work for you? Oh well, I guess I'll let some other folks have their own opinions. Of course if such an attempt is met with additional contention, I'll find it harder to re-attempt later on. Is it then best to shut up in such forums? I hadn't expected such dissing from you Xeno, but then I don't know you, so I guess now I know No need to be concerned about my stepping on your toes. Abdicating now

The Beatles werez British. Britishers are weird, ergo Beatlez are weirdz. To be very honest. All I "know" about them was that John and Paul were warring states/brothers. An I quite liked the muzic. Was Paul killed? No idea. Although the idea that he was killed is a long-standing idea. Bizarre IMO, since John actually WAS killed. What's this weird fixation with ideas of things (like killing people) that we can't "prove" vs real things (like people have been killed)? Which idea lingers on longer?

I agree it sounds nice. Doesn't mean it's the case. I mean, does it matter if there is no immediately grokkable purpose? Oh, ya, i forgot, was the question only about humans, or about "life in general"? - I keep forgetting I should ask that one. I find it tough that one even needs to ask. Reckon a cat asks? Or does a seaslug ask? Why ask? I suspect one only asks if it's going "badly". The purpose of a "badly going" life is IMO/IME to rectify itself.

"spending too much post-natal Jing depletes the pre-natal stuff." Wow, really? How??? I guess I can see that as plausible IF (and only if) one intends to send BOTH one's pre-natal AND one's post-natal jing down the line. Given what I know (sort of) understand about the effects of sheer living on one's DNA. "The 3 gates should work about the same for a girl, though you don't really lose much essence during sex but during menstruation (this will be less if you're in good shape down there) and you can lose Qi in case your muscles get loose from not using them enough, which is common with elder women." Ah, at last, an incentive, not that I needed one The real incentive is - um, the incentive you find if you try it Nah, seriously, unless I do "menstruation-stopping" practices then there's not much I can do about that (here I find the irony of people trying to hook up with the "big dipper" when I'm perfectly "hooked up" with the Earth's closest "heavenly body" already, geez). Forgive me, I'm always wary when a "practice" tells me not to do something. And if it does, it better replace that with something nice

Neat! Is the heart the only field that does that? Or just the only one, one (ok, some people, maybe just me :-() can measure so far, or talk about? Why is it being talked about now? Where did the person come up with that? Cat, why did you repeat it? Maybe it's been measured. I don't know. I guess I'd like to think it was like that, maybe it is and I'm too stupid to realise, too thick, too dumb, too I know I sound cynical, but I'd really love to know what the statement was based on. If it's speculation, then that's ok, but I'd just rather know. If it's personal experience, I'd like to know too. If it's hope, yes I'd like to know.

How's about one asks another "What is the purpose of your life"? How's about one answers oneself "What's the purpose of my life"? Life is not (IMO/IME) "impersonal". Which is why IMO such a question is, um, kind of difficult to answer in an impersonal manner. Of course, if you're enlightened and know the answer, clap your hands.

I know this might sound stupid. But is post-natal jing really the jing you want/need to retain? I was considering this and I was wondering, isn't it pre-natal jing the "stuff" you don't want to be depleting? What is the relationship between pre- and post-natal jing? I sort of remember a post a while back but not enough to successfully find it. I have understood so far that one "ideally" just needs to be running off "enough" "chi" (i.e. food/air/...um, "chi") to avoid depleting any "jing" at all. I'm such a n00b. And is the "jing-chi-shen" cycle (yes, I reckon it's happening anyway ) doing so based upon post, or pre-natal jing? Do the 3 gates "work" if you're a girl? I can do them a bit. 2 of them are stronger than the others. But that's from MCO, maybe I've been doing it wrong (as usual )

Nice post. I reckon - for myself - so far - that the point of "spiritual practice" is to get yourself "back" into a situation where you recognise your body/mind/spirit as one and the same AND you recognize anything that is not any of the latter to be the case.

Oh, I finally "get" where you're coming from. I wasn't putting the "will" on Tao, I was actually doing the opposite. I probably didn't say it right. Things are the way they are and no depiction can suggest otherwise. However, I have some inkling that whatever is going on is doing so in a "balanced" manner. Despite it's emptiness. Gah. Which is why I said the vid was an exaggeration. Huh, maybe just showing the damn vid and talking about it was what "balanced" things out. How the hell would I know? I'm just a person. Man, I should spend more time with animals.

Good question. What do you reckon? (I don't know the answer, which is why I ask questions, not like some people who ask questions because they're afraid their assumption isn't true).

"All institutions, laws, religions, churches and powers are nothing but a sham and a trap, the perpetuation of an age-old deception." Yes, I agree. And once one agrees, what building should one walk into (or out of) in order to nab the b*st*ards? Is nabbing multiverse-level beings feasible? I highly doubt that it's sufficiently rewarded. Still, I'm in with the humans - being one n all. So there we go.

I think it depends on what you want done. Some parts of "want done" involve you "doing stuff" and some parts of "want done" involve you "not doing stuff". I've (so far) found it easier to consider what I "want done" and then the doing or not doing stuff comes accordingly - except when I forget and attempt to do things that can't be done because: - not up to me to do them - no influence on them - I suck at doing them and someone else does better - what I think has to be done is in fact counter to what needs to happen - I don't know what needs to be done I think it's too hard to try and work out ALL of the contingencies, so I sort of look at what I want done and then, well, try not to get in its way too much. Still messing that one up, quite often, but less

Oh. Sort of a, er, nicely exaggerated example. Wouldn't Tao have intervened somewhere in the several equations to "make sure" that at least one of the "elements" of the sequence was "timely"? If not, what are we looking at? An approximation? A really awful situation (where I suspect we might be...) Should it have been up to any of the characters to ensure THEY were doing something in a timely fashion? What if the guy who jumped actually wanted to kill himself? I know the fact the fire was shown was supposed to say otherwise. What of the cab driver, he was driving the "right speed" - wasn't he? Or are we looking at an assumption that men can't do otherwise when they see a woman in a pink dress? ----wraps head around unfathomable------ The guys in that ad were hot

This belief thing. I think it's a good idea to get rid of it and then see what happens. The faith thing. I think it's a good idea to get rid of it and then see what happens. I don't know just how much I'm operating under beliefs right now. I'd wager, quite a lot. I resume faith as "feeling alright in the face of everything". But at some point, no-one needs (or should) need faith.

I'd like to hear the Taoist version too

Thanks Cat! It's a website with some really interesting stuff, not least of all that docu about the use of Freudian psychoanalysis for social control...

"Experiencing pain seems to be requirement of childhood." Ah, I think this is a fallacy. It only seems that way because it is so widespread. I think true forgiveness is wonderful. I think fake forgiveness as an attempt to live up to some moralistic ideal as a "spiritual" person is a waste of time and energy. Why should the abused and mis-treated children have to work twice as hard to enjoy their lives, their work and their relationships? I'll bet if you take a poll of the bums you'll find a bunch of us with "skeletons" and stories to tell about how we were treated. I've read a few here that are just insane. Oh, and it also doesn't help that the long term effects of such mis-treatment play into the current social environment so well. Want to change the world? Change families first...

Becoming overly cryptic in my current understanding mr Cow. Thank you. I had also read (elsewhere) that "tu-mo" was just a term for the "sushuma" (sp?) and not an actual practice. I'm coming to consider that "practices" are in fact "anti" or "non" or just "opposite" whatever I feel. Letting oneself get rid of "this" more than adding that. A while back I considered that "practices" (many of the ones I tried) were just there to irritate one into a sense of "this is enough" and purge the channel. Then I get to this weird point where I know there's a channel and it's just my silly channel but it works anyway.

Ralis, mon amour, you wouldn't happen to have read the "I'm a strange loop" book, would ya???? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_a_Strange_Loop Yet I don't agree I'm a loop but a resolution. Can a loop become open at one point? Not that I'd know personally. But I guess at least I know I don't know.

I thought the website was really neat. Thanks again for posting it. I think the criticisms of "WTF is Tummo for" are interesting. I don't know what Tummo is "for" - except, I guess, for when it's really cold out and to show you that you can do real awesome stuff both objectively and subjectively upon yourselves. Maybe that's the point? I think I prefer wearing a coat but I guess if I need to do Tummo (outwith a monastery demo) then I guess I could train for it. Do I need to? Not sure