Birch

"In any case, gods are created by human belief, and the mutual combined power of the belief gives power to the god, and this can be real power, and it can be accessed by some." Or used by some to wield power over the believing humans. "God" of money, anyone? Anyone?

I ought to be clear and explain that I'm not looking at myself in a mirror, I'm looking at the shapes formed by the steam on the mirror from an angle, much like one might look at clouds and discern faces, animals etc in them. As far as I can tell, us humans have this pattern recog thing down pat and we just forget we're doing it until we come up with weirdo practices like this to show us- especially for things that "look" like they could be living entities. Snake/rope/snake? The "mirror" in this case is just my own perception. I haven't played with any of the "soul gazing" stuff other than associative meditation, or just sitting and watching what comes up. Mind-material sometimes does take on scary forms, which I guess is why one is told to pass on by. Trying to work out what is "real" vs "not real" is just a potential head-frying pan. Fun to relate to other people on TTB's but I probably wouldn't start trying to explain what I'm doing to anyone who doesn't practice (consequences ) Still, I find it funny sometimes when there's a huge disparity between how I think I "look" to other people and what they actually give me in terms of feedback. The classic one is that I get up in the morning and feel great, think I look radiant and then the first comment I get is "Wow, you look tired".

I don't have experience with AA but I do know people who have and for whom it has worked. A lot of the stuff they do sounds very cultish and from my understanding is intended to break ego and rebuild it towards sobriety. I'd guess, as others have said, that you know yourself if you have an issue with anything. Also, as others have said, being emotionally volatile could stem from anything, including past abuse and trauma, diet...oh the list is endless. Meditation can be rough as hell which is why I'd rather suggest an established system with built in safeguards. There are lots of them discussed on here.

"then spiritual stuff happens" What exactly happens? How is it "spiritual" Thanks Scott

The cow visual on my bathroom mirror changed to: - Head eating hand And - Cartoon dog changing to wolf if I stare at it...Oh, also to be found there was a certain G Morris (in the shaving mirror of all places!) So I do stare at such things, quite often. Question now being is are actual spirit cows, hand-eating heads, cartoon dogs and wolves and G Morris actually inhabiting my bathroom mirror OR...is something else going on? I suspect there is a reason a few traditions suggest to not make too much of the "scenery". To all intents and purpoises, the cows, heads, hand, cartoon dogs, wolves and Glenn are "there", but...you get my point...and some understanding? Now when I met a red-skinned, red-eyed, blazing female "goddess", THAT was weird shit. Knowing I have her (and the cows, heads, hand, cartoon dogs and wolves and G Morris) in me is even MORE weird shit - and awesome. People live some crazy stuff. Well, this one anyway

"the water analogy - if you want to get water somewhere, lead it" I will approach this as an other-defined "water person". Water isn't "lead" but will flow to where things are needed, also where things are open. So open it and water will come. That's what it does Of course this is pure analogy and speculation and invective on my part.

"This is because chi follows your attention so it makes sense to watch what youare giving your attention to. Everyone knows this" - yeah, but I (at least) forget. All the time, which is why I practice I may burn this screen with all the attention I'm giving it (sound of someone's hardrive going down ) Nah, seriously. Starjaumper, you're a smart guy but I find you somewhat heavy on the snarkasm. Must be the mirror getting dusty again

"I'll be content knowing my breath isnt warming the planet up." Yeah, but would you be content knowing that someone is making it into ca$h? How do you protest that? Stop breathing ? Scott, we need a currency converting algorithm for cultivators. All that deep breathing must be the equivalent of a few ounces of gold

"You can't reliably discern the size of the ego from outward behavior and appearances." Isn't that a bit physicalist ? I suggest ego doesn't have a "size" per se, but it might have a long tail and fluffy ears. Now go try to catch one and then we can look at how big it might be I reckon it's not a "thing" at all, it's a "doing" that doesn't realize what it's doing. How long is a piece of string??

Thanks Mal! Very cool. I will def pick that book up.

"This is the true realization of immortality, in which every moment is a new live." Which is pretty much the conclusion I'm contemplating. For clarification, what happens when/if Jing, Qi and Shen are NOT united? If Jing is not with Shen - what then? If Shen is not with Qi - what then? If Qi is not with Jing - etc? I see this as the reunification of body/mind/spirit.

*Sigh* - the Slop and Paul are both right.

Thanks Mal! What's the blue thing?

If the "New Agers" bothered to train themselves in the skills required to help people (so how many would go the full 7 years it takes to train TCM in China?) then I suspect they'd be a little less "helpful" - or at least they'd know enough to know they don't know and should stay far away On the topic of "as within, so without" I'm interested in it. Not because I want the universe to become like a very big Sears catalogue to exert my materialist desires upon (I have a few left )but because I'm interested in the construct of that. The I ching is a good "litmus" test IMO. If you want to know what you're "putting out there." The other option is just constant mindfulness. Belief systems deal with "probability" whereas reality is something else. We even have our own rules in place (cf "Society") to attempt to mediate our relationship with this something else (and, I'd add, each other). Attributing human agency to the wrong part of reality is just misleading IMO.

"He is not very grounded according to my TCM friends who have taken his classes and tends to be overly affectionate with the juicy Shaktis say some of my dear female friends/students who have taken his classes. 'Nuff said, yes?" Hehehe, that's pretty cool. But I can see why it might not be for everyone. "Grounded" seems to be a good idea as far as I can tell.

Hi Susan! I think you've hit a nail. The difference between polarities playing out between us all and actually choosing a person to do that with mindfully as a lover. I'm starting to understand why people get confused with this and end up in futile relationships and situations as a result. The shaking stuff is also very interesting from a (can I dare say?) "physiological" perspective. I'm getting to convinced that the following are worth doing simply because of the way people are, and especially the way they're socialized (of course it depend on how the society goes): - shaking - spontaneous stuff - dissolving - vipassana And pretty much all the above for very similar reasons. Someone who looks as healthy as this guy probably doesn't have many hangups about anything much and that's a joy to see. I think I'd save up and go there

"Wait, I know, a scantily clad adept of the way of power doing the dance of life, with nice music playing in the background." Where????

Good news! You can feel your body, means you're still alive Aside from that (good news) I'll let the TCM people weigh in. My personal call is is to STOP TRYING TO ATTRIBUTE CAUSALITY AND MEANING TO EVERYTHING. But if you want to do that then check out BK's dissolving or Vipassana. Have fun with it and don't get stuck. But if you get stuck, it's ok, stop doing the thing that you think "causes" the feeling and if you want we can debate it for a few hours/threads. Always fun on TTB. Joking apart, TCM will "cover" a lot of stuff if you're willing to suspend existing system beliefs and belief systems (and don't get too caught up in the ones here). Likely your Spleen system is playing up from too much philosophy - especially if you get off on it.

"read poetry" - alright, I like a bit of Yeats but you have to be kidding me " or watch healthy men dance." - and one would find this where? Most men can't/won't dance (---makes sweeping generalisation before attempting to go hang out with Zorba---) "Men are visual" - And women I suppose are not??? -"don't blame human nature." I wasn't aware that I was, thanks for pointing it out to me

"i doubt this is possible solely through beats." What I'm very much interested in here is the parallel between things like "healing sounds" and certain meditations and these entrainment products. There was an article Drew referred to about a guy with a "Shakti helmet" - another guy with similar (or same guy) could pattern interrupt speech by flipping a switch. I will go and Google for the mechanisms of BA beats and how it "works" to entrain (off the top of my head it feels similar to the way 3D movies work).

And what are us women supposed to do for long life exactly???? I'm almost serious. I'm getting fed up of being fed off of. So's my mother. Now, I'm going to go off and find that psy self-defense book.

I haven't tried any yet but my hypothesis is that anything that acts on a system like crack is probably a bad call. A dose is a dose is a dose. Whatever it's made of (mantra, yantra, mudra or anything else you want) Besides, why pay for something you can make yourself?

What Sloppy and MH both said is the real deal. Another reason to stop believing things we think. Not a reason to stop thinking.

Wow. I just had a "Matrix moment" there. If it works, I would stay away from a lot of the stuff on there.