Birch

Possible explanations for crop circles: - what farmers do with their tractors to protest their treatment by farming subsidy awarding bodies - what farmers do with their tractors when they're bored - what farmers do when they're trying to attract better farming conditions to fields that have been exhausted by overfarming - what farmers do to laugh at stupid people

Thanks for the, euh, clarification Drew... Fine to (re)define what you mean after you've pissed some people off It also (somewhat) calls into question where "you're" at IMO. I thought part of your activities and research was some kind of honouring of men and women (or something)- if not embodied per se, at least "energetically" - or are you operating the base-level language for some other reason? Either way, calling women "sluts" really annoys me, so please stop doing it. Thank you!

I didn't understand any of the OP. But that would be par for course. The OP is correct and would be helpful to add some other pointers. Thank you!

"Buddhist model is quite accurate" As you know by now;-)...THIS emphasis on: - model - quite accurate Possibly "as" accurate as other models, still, model is as model does. I really feel in an extraordinary place right now to have as many options for models as I do (and yes, it has been my choice to learn them) and so doing I have: - come to recognize, in many ways, unity amongst all - come to desire to defend the multiplicity (the 10,ooo things) of ways of understanding - become concerned that although Buddhism is very much a structurally "right view" - a danger lies in it's adoption to the exclusion of other systems that themselves provide paths to enlightened views AND healing and well-being to all.

Ok, I'll take a stab;-) Enlightenment is knowing experientially a few things at the same time: - how one aspect of what you (initially) consider to be yourself (the ego/identity construct)came about - knowing that it isn't all of you at the same time. - it's recognition of how consciousness (or awareness, I never get the correct one) constructs itself into an "entity" in relationship (and opposition to other entities) - how that entity self-perpetuates (unless you hack into it via various methods) and can cause needless suffering (if for example I see myself as a success in some field and then I fail (which happens on the road to success) the degree to which I experience suffering will largely depend on the degree to which I identified with the "success". The term "attachment" is often used for this, but I prefer "identify". - how to navigate within consciousness with more and more intentionality and less and less recourse to conditioning, this is where the qi-gong, kundalini, yogic, tai-chi, meditation, other energetic practices start being very useful. They help to recondition the entity. Because there is no mind/body/soul/spirit-soul split. None.

Nah, it was pre-emptive because I could see the thread tending that way It was getting more towards "emptiness". Vajra seems to jump in at that point. I love his posts on DO, but I know that this thread is really to go into more detail about 5E etc. So maybe we can let it DO itself;-) ? There's a lot of really practical stuff in 5E. Plus there are some very knowledgeable 5E folks on here as well. I don't want to miss out!

"acting out of power, which is a manifestation of fear and deep doubt about ourselves" Doubt about what exactly? Note to Vajra, I can tell you want to hijack this thread and I don't want you to! I want it to stick with CHINESE SHAMANISM. It's important that it does because it might HELP PEOPLE. Thanks for understanding!

"Adding vipashyana to any energetic practice is, IMO, not only beneficial but necessary." THIS! Besides, it ends up somewheres there anyway so might as well do em both to begin with.

"Women are far too confusing for me!" ya, try being one No, seriously, try being one in our current setup. Drew, the "slut" thing is a value-judgement that smacks of judeo-christian moralizing. So what if people "need chi" ? Of course people need chi! Ideally they would be doing stuff to help themselves "get chi" (like not eating crap food, getting enough rest and exercise, enjoying their friends and family, not working too hard to buy rubbish) Agree that "mastery" of own's one chi is a responsible approach to take. Which is why I'm in favour of cutting through some BS - make it "open source". I'm also in favour of men learning this NEO (non-ejaculatory-orgasm) stuff

"Well it is really FIRE that triggers the overactive liver via water because water itself is a generating element of wood and as such would balance it." Neat. Alcohol is not called "firewater" for nothing ;-) This other guy seems overly tending to the "negative" aspects of everything, he also seems "heavy-handed". I much prefer Sloppy's suggestion of "look at where it's tending as an aide to correcting".

You're showing your age, grandfather ;-) We callz itz "herb" Cookies we likez.

Oh crap. I LIKE sleeping. Both when necessary and as much as possible ;-) Under what circumstances would you like to train for polyphasic (sp?) sleep? Unless necessary (i.e. large animals after you or you after them or sailing or something?)

"showing off how shiny our brains are. " I figure I'm not actually that smart So it's worth much more to me and others to act from elsewhere. Not that I'll drop the brain though;-) It's worth its weight. If you want to convince someone, use stealth. Play to ego. No-one is influenced by outright advertising of course ;-) What I like about you and Santi is that you are pretty raw and that totally offended me Tao Semko is right up my street with his intellectual stuff (helps that he's hot and ripped as well ;-)) Mr Hardlight dude looks like Marlon Brando, speaks true, has shakti skill that works ;-) Scott is something else. A mix of strength and vulnerability and chocolate:-) Mal is a riot, running sex and guzzi daily and very dear. Trunk is a Tao-tourist and super technical. Hundun is random and fun and smart Cat is terribly British and wonderful and love TaoMeow is wowMeow ImmortalSister is a sister of mine PaulWalter is - a real companion and annoying (in a good way) Sloppy is a dude and cool and smart as hell Machin Shin is a wild futurist and may look after us later Ya Mu is potentially one of my next teachers Rainbow Vein is quiet but very interesting 3Bob might save some of us Apech is...where is he? I like him! Cow Tao is a favourite but I don't know why Mr Marblehead is one of my grandfathers --- And I send love to everyone I ever hurt And I forgive everyone who ever hurt me And I wait for knowledge to stop me hurting anyone less fortunate than me.

Hum. There's a rising thing that goes from feet upwards to head. It feels like water rising, sometimes steady, sometimes in a rush. Then there's a draining thing that is kind of grainy. It goes down and leaks out my hands and/or feet. Then there's a spiralling thing that has pathways that (as far as I can tell) follow some kind of gross meridian pattern (only reason I know that is because I get acupuncture, so it could be "faked" - know what I mean?) Then there's the buttoning up thing - flows around some "disks" in the centre of my torso (legs not included) Then there's rotating things that feel like mini MCO's in various areas Then there's pressure of things in various points Then there's a thing that sort of goes up and down my spine like a piston without exit Then there's an outward spinning that seems to go a few feet away from my body Then there's a "wing-like" sensation from behind my shoulder blades Then there's a multiple-rotating thing Then there's an all-concentrating thing that pulls it all from "everywhere" to "here" Then there's something running around inside my skull The there's the points at which I know I'm physically in one position but in addition am in another. Tends to be hotter than not. I'd actually like some cooler stuff What should I do? I've given up trying to figure what type it is. If someone could tell me, that would be very cool!

Excellent! Thanks Susan!

Neat post Slopsters ;-) Thank you ( random experiment ;-)) I guess this guy's MO wouldn't work with a realized master, or would it still ? I mean, even if you're pretty mindful, can you still get run by this stuff if it's done well? What if you have achieved "no you" ? (I guess that might be a good argument for doing so?) And ultimately, is the guy's intent worth bothering about if yours is stronger? Purer? I think I met a couple of those recently. They "felt wrong" or "off". But they were very good at what they were doing. I'd suggest that someone who wants to be as "tight" as this with 5E perhaps might have some other issues to deal with? But then my ideal of "Tao" is effortlessness. So I wonder if that's not just more naivety on my part? How much does it matter? Whether "you" win or "he/she" wins? Rainbow Vein. Thanks for the info, I will go check it out!

"the end those too are constructions used by us to understand..." Good call. I felt the need to hack off the end of it because I figured you'd already drifted into conceptuality;-) These days, whenever I try to call to mind the correct word for it (the whatever I'm trying to understand in it's totality) I can't. In fact I end up holding my breath instead. I liked the way you approached it relative to your body by saying it "feels like this and not like this" - and I wonder how that works. Because surely the way something feels has a natural correlate of some kind? Maybe not... The notion of energy patterns. Here's an idea that "felt like this here and that there with a mix at this point and a flow on the other side." And then we pin a label on it (like trying to pin a tail on a donkey) and make a call about what that is/means. But don't certain energetic patterns have their clear correlates? I'm very much thinking of "feelings" such as joy vs sorrow or are we still "pinning things on" even in that case? What do you do about "pre-verbal" stuff? A lot of "therapy" work is based on taking a pattern/feeling that one doesn't like the feel of and attempting to attribute something "positive" to it. Along the lines of "No, you're not actually anxious, just really looking forward to something." - ok I'm oversimplifying, but you get the idea? I believe 5E also attributes to specific emotions. For example, to master/control a wood emotion, call upon a metal one? Something like that? There were some good pdfs on the Joel Seigneur site.

"I feel bad now, i wish i didnt corrupt your wish!" Granted. You did not corrupt my wish that I am love incarnate. Everyone believes in me. But they don't like that quite as much as believing in themselves, so they suffer. I wish we could all start over again.

Hum. You know, I'm still out on a bunch of this "self" stuff. What's your take on the following: - I've got the mindflow/thoughtstream thing down - I've got the emptiness thing down - I've got the "running commentary of mind/body stream" thing down - I've got the "huh, apart from the mind/body stream thing there seems to be another thing" down So far, there seems to be some different stuff "going down". But didn't whoever say "that's what you are"? or words to that effect?

This might http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZcxo93olLc

Granted You are called upon by many warlords, you must decide who you will serve. I wish I was love incarnate.

Dude, you just said "man parts" :lol: :lol: Ok, back to serious. As far as I can figure "Jing" is not just "sexual essence" - in fact it's a level/variant/frequency whateva (specialists please help terms?) that is a different (grosser?) level than other types of energy classification. It's tempting to say it's "electrochemical" rather than "electromagnetic" but then I'd be tying on wrong terms.

Hum, I'm a bit of a prude (thanks culture and mom and dad!) and when I first got into meditation, especially all the Taoist stuff I was like "hoo, this sexual feeling stuff is going on. And that's part of cultivation???" And I got very embarrassed and ashamed. And then I shone some neat mindfulness stuff on that and I found out where the shame and embarrassment came from. Now I think it's more embarrassing to be embarrassed but that just means my shame has shifted Damn Taoists

Good call! The koan is by definition meant to fuck you up. Euh, to be polite, it's supposed to get you away from ...

Cool! Thanks for that Vortex. So maybe one could say "Hey, if you want better health and longevity, one of the ways you might want to go about it is XYZ" Rather than "Dude dat is wrong man." Or we might say "Dude, watch out for potential life-sapping side-effects if you spill your jing all over the place". Of course your child may very well be better/smarter than you so don't get too selfish But then we tell the kid the same damn thing. Bleh.