Birch

This is a good thread. I don't know much about gurus because the only ones I have are here online and in my head, my heart and my dreams. But I do know about something closer, which is my parents. I suppose I can make a comparison because if the idea is that you give everything up, it's sort of like being born again to a different mother. Would you willingly be born to someone? If so, then who would it be? Would you be willingly born to a drunkard? Someone who beat you? How about someone who would have sex with you? Someone who would tear down your ego? Make you do things you would never do, just to push your limits? Or would you be willingly born to someone who will only strip you of all certainty? Then may I humbly suggest you select life itself as guru? If this Karma-reincarnation gig is working properly then that's what it's for.

Uh-oh Vajra, looks like you DID just kill Buddha! Great! Does this mean you will continue to promote Buddhism or will it get different? Joking aside, what do you think of Sam Harris?

Sometimes when I get lost I say "F*ck it" and that tends to help. I'm being serious, there is a point at which whatever got you to the point you're at has fulfilled it's purpose. I.e. it got you to that point that you're at. So if you'd rather not be at that point, it means that whatever got you there is no longer "working". I.e it won't get you to where you want to be, because if it did, you'd be dandy with where you're at. There are a few options at this point: - Give up/let go and "go with the flow" (equivalent of "f*ck it") because it's going somewhere anyway, but you have to have a lot of faith that it's going somewhere you want. IME it just goes wherever it goes and it's actually less painful to deal with overall. This is my version of Wu-wei. - Establish where it is you want to go and determine whether this would require upstream or downstream action to get you there (or mountain-climbing, but I'm not so good with that one as an analogy for other reasons) This may require Kung Fu or just very good swimming skills. If you are depressed (and - big generality alert - men tend to have different experiences when it comes to depression than women do) it would be a good idea to address that issue. The others may spontaneously resolve following that. It may require Kung Fu;-) And it may also only require hitting up the TTB's for a laugh on an occasional basis. Diet and exercise are the number one recommendations I've seen on here that actually do work. Smiling. It's stupid, simple and it works

Agree! Sending it back up to top.

Why does everyone seem to want a movie? How about a book? A nice technique I read about involves writing yourself a letter from: - future you - older wiser you - your mentor/spiritual adviser You really have to get in character for it and you have to drop your sense of "present you". Then you write whatever the adviser has to say to "present you". I find "older wiser me" quite a lot wiser than me.

Excellent thread. I'm going to throw in with a ramble because my classical argumentation skills have become non-linear since I've been practicing. Plus I'm a girl so there's likely an underlying biological reason for me to be less able to do it Oh what the hell, I've never been able to do it (OT I'd like to see a thread battle based on 5E to see what happens;-)) I would LOVE to help Mr Harris out with the establishment of a scientific methodology that could address the issues (Sam, if you're reading this thread, call me ok?) No, more seriously, may I suggest that it would be possible to just (re)adopt some stuff "off the peg" as it's already pretty well worked out. The "science" included. Wasn't there a thread about Quantum physics being a borrowing (or at least a followup to time someone spent studying the I-Ching)? Imagine TCM being taught in Med School and insured just because it works. The belief (or should I say "cognitive" ) driven aspects of any borrowings could be (finally) firmly established as symbolic devices for mind-use/manipulation with the caveat to "do no harm". Oh, maybe that would annoy some people when they realise that they've been having themselves all these years with some help from mind-manipulating symbol-driven religulous leaders

Hum hum. Thanks for the clarification on Mr (cute ) Harris' practices Ryan. Another dumb idea from me: I think meditators of any religion are going to be able to get close enough to understanding each other if we had any conversations about it. But apart from TTB's, I don't see anywhere where you can openly discuss this stuff (especially if you start with some of the weirder aspects of it ;-)) He is right in that as long as we "stick to beliefs" when trying to talk about anything we won't get anywhere. Certainly IME I find I can understand spontaneously a lot of "religious stuff" quite a lot better than when I started meditating. I can even see where some of it is misinterpreted (or just plain stupid, yes) I am not "religulous" of any kind. I think the concerns I've seen in many "religious" conflicts sometimes have less to do with religion than economics or sovereignty over territory (water in the Middle East, IRA anyone?) There's still something nagging at me about the "scientific" approach and vocabulary he suggests. For example if I say such and such a thing is a "chakra" and that means I'm using it as shorthand for a bunch of stuff, that it has a "physical" organ associated with it as well as a multidimensional thought-form/energetic patterns and game-changing ramifications in relationships with other people, I wonder how exactly our current (western?) scientific approach (null hypothesis?) is going to deal with all that? I guess it would be a cool challenge. Bertrand Russel said in 1946: "I think if we are to feel at home in the world...we shall have to admit Asia to equality in our thoughts, not only politically but culturally. What changes this will bring about I do not know, but I am convinced that they will be profound and of the greatest importance"

What educated college students might say when they would prefer not to use the "v-word" = "lotus". Other than that, Mr Harris makes some good points about the fetters around religion and I personally think he looks hot so I credit him with more than I should. Here he is back again with an ideal called "scientific" when it comes to human psychology, morality and ethics. I suspect (and I'm not sure why, it just feels that way, maybe some of the stuff he's pointing to as "negative") what he actually might like very much more has more to do with a cultural and religious endgame. A lot of the stuff he's talking about in terms of "science" is already being done (or at least approached) in the fields of physics, neurobiology, neurosociology, psychosociology, to name but a few. He can't not know about all the research going on, right? I also read that he'd tried meditation. I wonder if it's freaking him out?

Thanks! The Emoto stuff is apparently not quite as rigorous as it ought to be. The side-story goes that the photographers picked the crystals they found beautiful to take shots of, leaving aside others that weren't quite so nice and so "not showing" the effect. I keep having to go back to basics with the slit experiments because I keep forgetting them.

"the main character slowly figures out that the entire plot is revolving around himself but he didnt know it." THIS

"Realm Lord is somebody who creates a full realm and is in charge of it." So that would be Sean at TTB's Awesome.

Dude, that's the funnest Buddhist "in-joke" I've heard in a while

Hahaha, that part about the multi-purpose knife was hilarious. I'm sliding OT almost but I kind of feel like I want the whole Greek Pantheon back again Maybe they really got it right after all by personifying the thought forms, or maybe they were too dangerous like that? Plus they had Zeus to rule over them all, I figure he's a kind of an Atman. Doesn't Tantrism call upon a large number of different types of Buddhas (or Taras?) The only Bon I ever met was during a dream (I wrote about it ages ago) and he did some pretty wild stuff. Then just yesterday I read that story someone posted a link to about the Aghora (sp?) decomposing and recomposing himself at will. Which is exactly what the Bon shaman showed me he could do. Which is IMO what qi-gong does, but I'm sliding further OT so I'll stop now;-) http://www.drsvoboda.com/divinefury.htm "He climbed to the apex of aghoridom and stood there, dissolving and recoagulating himself moment by moment, his motto an eternal shout of navinam navinam, kshane kshane ("Newness, newness, at every moment!")." edited for link and quote

Thanks Ya Mu, Shakti Mama and Trunk and everyone on this thread for your replies about transmissions (now called "Type 3" ;-) ?) Reminds me of a movie called "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind" ;-) Through KAP I learned I am a total "energy-work" amateur and would probably do well to learn. If such things are "learnable" - which it sounds like they are. Thoughts on what makes a "good" student of such things? Thanks! Kate

THIS!

Thanks for replying to this one. I was waiting for someone to do that;-) Do you know where any of those studies are documented? Thank you! Kate

Oh yes I do! Not that I'll sign up for anyone's religion because I agree though...

And I thought I was getting somewhere with my understanding of transmissions. Bummer. I'll have to start making stuff up again to appease my desire for explanations. I like TaoMeow's take on the WLP transmission and why the receiver ought to be up to some kind of speed before they do get it, or risk pain or not getting it. I like Apech's take on the resonance idea I'd like Trunk to throw in about Mark from Hardlight I'd like Shaktimama to throw in about KAP (because I know she does it :-)) Of course, that might not happen (yet) but I hope you would consider my request, in the spirit of "asking nicely" and open knowledge.

Advance apologies for likely getting the nested quote feature wrong;-)

I haven't read Gurdjieff's teachings on Self. What does he say?

"Stare too long at the abyss and you hurt your spirit. Ignore it and you lack perspective and reality." THIS!

Nice points VPCraig. I'm very happy that "the scientific method" is being discussed as well as the appropriate use of terminology and applied language. "Quantum" is indeed ripped all over the the place (as is "alchemy") and I suspect scientific misuse is always going to be a "spiritual" beast to slay for some of us Never mind bad translations in good faith ;-) I agree it would be worth working together. Unless of course there would be an advantage to hiding behind "things you heathen can't understand" or "things I can't explain" - although that last one is probably very likely, so maybe just better to work together

Well, it's not a "thing." I agree with you ES. The example I gave was the river declaring itself to be the "thing" when what it really is is everything, per your example.

Great link! Thank you!