Birch

Music is influence

I agree with the T_shell:-)

FWWWOA

She has that sort of Eva Braun thing. I wasn't very happy about that.

'World-leaders' can't be, as far as I understand TTC, and I'm not sure that Lao Tse suggested otherwise. Although if Obama were proficient in wu-wei, he'd be so close to Tao as dammit that no-one would notice:-) Plus, Obama is not the only 'world-leader' in the world. ---opinion, whatever---

Dude, you're as Canadien as I am :-p

I hope this might help. I found I was 'over-lasering' it as far as practice (if dissolving) was concerned, and with yi-lead qi-gong in general. And when I approached 'mindfulness' I was suppressing. Liver wasn't happy at either. Softly softly catchee tiger:-) But joking apart, our diets and environments and lifestyles don't help the LIV. So I cut way back on things that harm LIV, like alcohol, and overwork. And also worked/working on anger and 'power' issues.

"...kind of ruins the effect if you start giggling." Or if she runs away:-)

Drew would be the guy for this question! My POV on it is that it's all too common to 'lose yourself' in a relationship with someone else. So def anything that alleviates that would IMO (and had I known better at the time, IME) be helpful. I'm thinking a lot about it too. There's anothing thing that I came across more recently that suggested that anything you don't embrace as part of yourself you'll end up 'working for, getting married to, or giving birth to'. I thought that was kind of interesting. There's stuff in the healing circle about how suppressing stuff just keeps it active in your life (which is counter-productive to what we think we're doing, haha) The other thing I contemplate is 'what on earth am I looking to this other person for?' And if it's something I can give to myself (or give to them) then I do that. I have no idea how it 'works' energetically. And as cultivation moves forward, the idea that someone could be dependent on me for energy feels weird and not a very good idea. ---2cts--

I'll go further than that. Having someone pursue when you've made it kindly clear you do not feel the same can feel invasive and threatening. When your neighbors start asking you who that dude hanging around the building is. Haha. The movies don't talk about that part. Hahahaha

A cult doesn't need a doomsday scenario - although it does require a belief-structure that sets its members aside as very different from everyone else who is not part of the cult. There's a bunch of very interesting work on cults.

Thank you:-)! Happy Vaentine's! I will read and enjoy:-)

And some of the world (me:-)) would find the above crazy stalkerish weirdness. Unless the feeling was somewhat mutual. Mr North, Happy Valentine's:-)

I agree with what you're saying etthoughts. I reckon where things get messed up most often and confused is in the 'power/hierarchy' area and the dissent/disagreement/questioning area. I'm pretty allergic to the power/hierarchy stuff.

Thank you!

I'm referring to what I have a sort of a hope are 'deeper workings' of Tao or whatever's happening. Not reflecting on the moderation at this point although it's part of whatever's happening. To your point above, I'm not sure respect is that complicated. If it looks fiddly and difficult like that, it might very well be that there's a bit of something else in there somewhere. I guess another suggestion aside from the ignore is for the poster who feels offended to just call it. But I think sometimes it might seem 'unbecoming' to someone with spiritual goals to admit they feel offense. I do think it's a skill (full) thing to learn to do, to bring a very unpopular view to a forum with respect. Edit: I got interested in this respect idea and went hunting. I found the following interesting. " Respect Acknowledging Dignity You respect others when you recognize and sincerely acknowledge their humanity, worth, and significance. Each of us deserve respect simply because of our humanity. Definitions Acknowledging the dignity of another. Valuing Humanity. Acknowledgement of a person's high stature. Showing approval of anothers action or being. Acknowledging the existence, significance, and humanity of another. Expressing your true values and authentic self. Recognizing your commonality and connection to another. Related Terms The terms admiration, appreciation, awe, honor, and esteem are approximate synonyms for respect. The word respect originates from the Latin re- meaning again (as in repeat) and specere, meaning to look (as in spectator). These root words taken together mean to look again, or to notice with attention. Overlooking an opportunity to show respect is often considered a slight. The opposite of respect is disrespect and violence. If someone considers our disrespect seriously, we may insult or humiliate them. Showing Respect Respect is action. We demonstrate our respect for others by giving them authentic positive attention, listening with positive attention, acknowledging them as fellow human beings, and providing appropriate recognition. Avoiding, withholding, or manipulating these responses are signs of disrespect. Any form of insult or humiliation is disrespectful. Disrespect is the precursor to hate. Heed the warning. Reevaluate the evidence, avoid the distortions, correct the errors in reasoning, and reject the temptation to dismiss the other. Sometimes respect is inaction. Listening, hearing, comprehending, understanding, and believing are often more respectful than speaking, debating, denying, explaining, interrupting, and dismissing. Calm, patience, serenity, order and a certain stillness may encourage a deeper bond than chaos, hurry, and disorder. Retreating to rest and relax rather than advancing; silence instead of constant chatter, requesting instead of nagging; considering and contemplating rather than rushing to decide or judge, and quality rather than quantity can all enhance a meaningful relationship. Subtlety, nuance, and accuracy demonstrate more respect than superficial and boisterous hype. Choose presence instead of transience and being instead of doing. Choosing a hospice instead of medical heroics may be the final and ultimate act of respect. Demonstrating due respect is often the basis for establishing rules of etiquette. Some polite customs, however, emphasize asymmetry rather than symmetry in a relationship. These customs act to preserve the existing status hierarchy and make it more difficult to question authority and speak truth to power. Respect and Symmetry Respect is closely related to symmetry in a relationship. Formal and informal hierarchies are ubiquitous in organized societies. The boss manages the workers, adults discipline children, teachers instruct students, and doctors treat patients. Respect is commonly seen as deference to status within the recognized hierarchy. The worker is expected to show respect to the boss and the patient is expected to show respect to the doctor. A more powerful and more meaningful respect occurs, however, when the boss respects the worker and the doctor respects the patient. Respect is recognizing this human connection. Since power establishes a asymmetrical relationship, demonstrating respect through a symmetrical relationship is the voluntary sharing of power. It acknowledges that the bonds of humanity are more important that the trappings of power and the formality of a hierarchy. Respectful relationships are mutual and reciprocal. Respect often works against the grain of bureaucracy, providing a partial antidote to its frustrating impersonalization. Self-Respect Although genuinely respecting yourself is sometimes more difficult than respecting others, we all deserve to respect ourselves. We each deserve to acknowledge our own dignity. Recognizing our own intrinsic worth frees us from the expectations and judgments of others. It is a source of deep inner peace, strength, and autonomy. Status is not image and self-respect is certainly not gained by winning the praise of others and accumulating awards and other status symbols. Self-respect begins at birth and is sustained and increased by living an authentic and honorable life. Dissent Be careful to distinguish dissentexpressing disagreement with an idea, decision, or actionfrom disrespectdenying the dignity of a person. Dissent is often helpful and constructive. Better decisions are made by considering a variety of viewpoints. Dissent is often required to introduce valid alternative viewpoints. Unfortunately dissent is often confused with disrespect. For example if you disagree with views expressed by a powerful (or pretentious) person, they may react by scolding you for attacking them. The message: How dare you disagree with me is often sent one way or another. This is a common and manipulative ploy that combines the fallacy of an ad hominem attack with the fallacy of ad vericundium. Do not tolerate this manipulation; learn to identify it and defend against it. Respond by saying: Let's not confuse dissent with disrespect here. I can disagree with your statements and still respect you as a person. That is what I have done. I deserve similar respect from you. Let's continue to discuss the issues at hand without attacking each other. . . Perhaps it is helpful to review the evidence supporting various points of view. . . Have the courage to speak truth to power. Work toward a dialogue, rather than acquiescing to a more power-based mode of communication. Expect Respect Do not tolerate disrespect. Respect yourself, as described above. Respect your spouse, family members, friends, and co-workers. Demonstrate your respect for them in every interaction. Dissent whenever it is helpful, but never show or tolerate disrespect, either publically or privately. Take quick and effective action to identify and respectfully express your intolerance of disrespect whenever it arises in groups, gatherings, or meetings you are a part of. Respond by saying: That was disrespectful because . . . We all deserve to be respected and there is no excuse for disrespect. If you disagree, then express you dissent. Find a constructive resolution of the conflict. If you have relationship issues to resolve, then participate in a constructive dialogue to resolve them. I do not tolerate disrespect, there is no reason for it, it is destructive, don't do it. Do not gloat or become self-righteous, disrespectful, sarcastic, spiteful, or vengeful when expressing your intolerance. This is not easy, but is extremely valuable. Also, speak up to defend any scapegoat that may be emerging. Describe the fallacy in blaming a single person for the difficulties of the group. Respect and Religion Too often religious beliefs are misused as an excuse to disrespect others. What begins as demonstrations of faith and evangelizing can evolve into intolerance and escalate into hatred and tragic violence. Fortunately the Decalogue of Assisi for Peace was on adopted February 24, 2002 by 200 leaders of the worlds major religions. This important declaration recognizes that humanity must choose love over hatred. The Decalogue clearly states that violence and terrorism are incompatible with the authentic spirit of religion. These religious leaders also commit themselves to educating people in mutual respect and esteem. As you practice your own religion, join these leaders as they pledge to keep compassion as their highest priority. Quotations: Where respect says Don't hurt, responsibility says Do help. ~ Thomas Lickona The key to a positive No is respect. ~ William Ury You get respect when you give it; respect breeds respect Respect is the cheapest concession you can give the other. ~ William Ury. Liberty finally exists when the recognition I give you does not subtract something from myself.~ Richard Sennett Self-respect has little to do with the outer world's evaluation of us but is about a separate peace, a private reconciliation ~ Joan Didion References The Cognitive Structure of Emotions, by Andrew Ortony, Gerald L. Clore, Allan Collins The Power of a Positive No: How to Say No and Still Get to Yes, by William Ury Respect: An Exploration, by Sara Lawrence-Lightfoot" From: http://www.emotionalcompetency.com/respect.htm

What are some examples Gerard? And isn't there 'cultivation-related' foot 'stuff' that could be painful?

I don't know (yet). I hope that's how things work:-)

No, I wasn't responding to your post but I agree there are much easier ways of talking about things. The question I had was one that I've been wondering about quite a bit. As the suggestion to 'not self' is so often (it seems) given to the person who is feeling the offense, when (IMO) it could go either way. Why does it tend to go one direction, not the other? Your idea is a good, neutral one. Why doesn't that get suggested more often?

I have a question, why is it up to the person who is offended to 'undo' the offense through the non-attribution of self? I know that it's probably more pragmatic, and the closest thing one might have some kind of influence over in order to feel no pain. But it could just as well be suggested to the person doing the 'offending' that they should drop the whatever it is about them, no?

As readers of many of my posts have gathered, I 'hate' the New Age. I would like to open a topic on this topic (very vast subject) and I'd like to open it with the following http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.ca/2007/04/shadow-of-our-downfall.html

Some days yes, I get sense that there is change towards 'better days' in progress but I think my sources are biased because of my interests and the circles I'm in. Other days it seems like the civilization I live in is going to the dogs and by extension that all of humanity has finally lost all of its marbles. Neither of these things mean anything - except maybe I'm getting older and people have been saying the same thing for centuries. I'm not at any level to evaluate the overall level of vibration of 'our world' (if there is one) but I can spot an offended poster, I think. Not my intent to offend and I'm sorry if I have. I put my main 'subjective' and personal objections to 'New Age' on this thread (must be a couple of pages back) but so far there haven't really been any responses to those, more of a sharing of what other people like and dislike, and a few more suggestions of what might be New Age (experimentation) and some classic 'aliens, dolphins and crystals' Which is perhaps an interesting place to start looking again. I dunno. Your experience sounds very interesting, I hope you'll share more of it.

Wait, Jefferson said that? Ok, now I don't understand why the Christian church is so thoughroughly a part of North American national politics. It might have been considered a useful meme to have? Question I have is 'useful for what?' CT, that's a really interesting suggestion, that intuition might be better over information. I haven't been able to get to any clear conclusions on it because I don't really understand the relationship between them properly yet. Personally I'd love to see the back of organized religion but I doubt that's going to happen my lifetime.

That's horrible!

Haha, I keep trying to impose the non-imposition of personal beliefs. See how much that works? Haha. However, it's likely I'll continue on with this standing up saying things stuff for a while.