Birch

I liked these too. About the emotions part, I see it that emotions (any of them) have their own "power" which is qualitatively quite different from other types of sensation or thinking. Feeling them changes everything (however briefly)in oneself. And others too, but that's another topic ;-) The secret smile seems to me to use rising crescendos of feeling that just get bigger and bigger until they "whoosh". Then the directional bit is getting all that to "whoosh" up the central channel. Lately it has seemed even more crucial to me that one can access such emotions at will. Not to have them bound by experience (of course that's nice too ) For another thread isn't there another practice that uses JUST emotions to work its stuff?

SF Jane. I WISH you'd been around to tell me this at 21. Anyway, I suspect it's good advice for all ages

prawns = underwater insects Except maybe not. Do people eat landcrabs? I'm always fascinated by prescriptions on what to eat vs what not to eat. I'm almost sure that some of those are similar to the tied up monastery cat story. Maybe others to do with killing methods (more dangerous for who?) others to do with conservation methods and still others to do with chi methods. While we're on this, there are still many people around the world who have food spoil too fast on them. If I could find the underground cooler I would link to it. I was vegetarian for a while because my compassion and insight meditations demanded it. Or maybe I just couldn't bear to be with myself as a killer. Something of either or both of those orders. Then I realised I was actually doing myself physical harm. I was a very bad vegetarian. I didn't do half the stuff one is supposed to do to remain healthy as a vegetarian. So I went back to the occasional piece of meat. If possible game or grass fed. Trying to get around the labels per the latter is a real game. Short of visiting the places and farms where the animals are to judge for myself. Should be next on my list. When I lived in Chinatown I would go to the supermarkets and buy things I didn't understand how to cook;-)

Thanks Apech! That was excellent. I'll take the uppity and slowly getting worse part. But not the vicious bits. Or the extreme moral wickedness. Can I? I'm obliged to keep "unskillful" by dint of various personality traits and faults.

And this reminded me of bubbles on pancake batter when you put it in the pan. I know it's silly (ish) but I thought I'd stay with the food thing Ego = bubble on the batter of pancake (soul) in the pan. Ok, now I added the pan to the issue. I'm sorry. Any number of versions of this have come up for me and none of them seem to be going away anytime soon. I've had the golem version, the balloon version, the volcano version, the "non-local" (very post modern) version. I wonder what will happen when we hit space-living like Battlestar Galactica (sp?) and no longer have anything to stand on (I mean like an Earth). I wonder what experiences meditators would have in space, on a space ship...Better, are there any astronauts on TTB? (not the etheral kind, sorry)

"Sex is not evil. Women are not evil." Phew! Finally Except that they're JUST as evil as everyone else. Maybe we could have another Women = evil topic. Or a topic about the origins of the word and the concept of "evil" (which if I remember correctly - and even if I don't, does it matter that much?) = maya. Or was that Satan? Anyway, one or the other. But wait "maya is samsara" and "evil backwards spells "live"" - oh. ---- Back to the topic at hand. If the premise is that the Guru knows something the disciple doesn't - which I think they ought to, otherwise, no point teaching what one doesn't know, right? BUT to run off on a typical tangent, what if the disciple(s) was/were acting "teacher" to the guru who can't get higher in the heavenly hierarchy UNLESS he or she successfully makes it through "guru challenge"?? Anyway, back to being more conventional, if the guru is supposed to know something the disciple doesn't and is supposed to teach this thing IMO it is in his/her responsibility as a person (I could exaggerate and say "human" but that would be silly) to handle that knowledge and distill it correctly to the the disciple in such a way that the latter will then be able to pursue their OWN path. My opinion, obviously. My argument might not be excellent but hopefully I can get the point across. Do no harm.

If you're in seclusion, you get rid of a LOT of noise so you can hear what is "you" vs "not you" a lot clearer than when you're with a lot of people (or overstimulated IMO). Didn't people used to live in a lot more crowded conditions? I'd almost argue that as many of us are "bowling alone" there's not so much need for seclusion, in fact more the opposite!

THIS!

Hey Hundun, So do you consider ALL qi-gong as spontaneous? I'm leaning that way. In concrete terms I also found myself with practices (at least once or twice) that were different from what I'd started with via instruction. But as I've mentioned elsewhere my appreciation for "qi-gong" is getting to include so many things that I really wouldn't be surprised anymore ;-) There's other stuff that I can't quite put my finger on enough to explain. Sort of like an awareness practice that drops away and kind of reverses things. Yeah, not such a great explanation

Now my fair friend "you" do not exist. i know this because i have seen myself and i assume we are all the same. But maybe not YOU may be the all-seeing-i i was looking for. Does it ever trouble anyone here that so many of us seem to be seeking, looking and searching? Wouldn't that be a solution? Stop doing it?

Or how about an ECG? Putting wires on people when they're naturally "wi-fi" I think there may be many many elements at work in qi-gong that could contribute to how and why qi-gong "works". I keep coming across them in my practice and reading. Trying to get it nailed down to "one thing" in the same way as we've managed to do with "treatment by radio waves" is IMO asking for failure in the face of many skeptics. In fact, I enjoy skepticism as part of my own post-practice analysis and I see it as part of my learning. While practicing, I find it helpful to stay with "What works" as a concept. Doesn't mean either of those positions are necessarily the case.

I had a longer reply but lost it. The short of it was "soul sandwich" Ultimate consciousness ----/soul/---- ego Mine hangs out in my heart and my gut.

I didn't find it really interesting. What keeps coming to mind for me with this stuff is that it's waaaaay too easy for some people to put themselves in the hands of unscrupulous teachers and at the issue of bad experience (which may or may not be the teacher's fault) they condemn everything. I guess I can't blame them. When dealing with "weirdo" stuff, the frames of reference just aren't around in many cases. I wonder how many con-artists get away with it inside the cultures the practices have their origins in? Kind of OT but not really ;-) http://www.livingoprah.com/

I kinda like the old school scratchy production on the MM KAP meditation from Glenn. I love Santi's stuff too but there's a different vibe on that old recording. For me, a lot of the motivation to practice came from the transmissions (which BTW I still feel weird talking about but I suppose most people here would figure it no big deal).

Ancient bitch saying: "Do not engage" i HAVE to say that this story is nicely told.

*sigh* you're right but a little entertainment sometimes is good for an old soul You think it's fun being born middle-aged?

It looks like you're well on your way AND that you've got a knack for insight. That's way farther than I got in many years before I hit up this Tao stuff. Turning off TV definitely a way to go. A lot (although not all) of stuff on there is carefully manufactured to make you feel crappy without it - so you buy. I became a "voluntary simplicity" snob for a while to explain to myself and others that I didn't need all the crap. I think it can also kill creativity and imagination which is EXACTLY what you need if you need to get ideas to do stuff to provide for yourself. To shut down the chatter, many approaches. For a while I would thank it and acknowledge the protection it was trying (however badly and off the mark) to offer me. I found it goes away quite quickly that way. These days it's gotten much quieter, harder to track down so then I figure other techniques such as those suggested above are worth doing. Hell, I'd try a bunch all at once

"the duality of being and non-being by which existence arises. The false belief of "I" arises when a certain condition of being is seen as an inherent subject, such as the body, mind, and form, and the balance between being and non-being is lost." I've spent part of the afternoon on this last one and I didn't come up with anything much except more damn questions;-)Apologies in advance! - "existence arises" - please help me by explaining this - the condition of being seen as an inherent subject - how does that work? - balance between being and non-being is lost -I thought that this was where "my" karma idea fitted nicely. Maybe (probably doesn't) For about 40 minutes while thinking about your post I was quite annoyed and then taken with it. As follows: my existence arises thanks to duality - awesome! The entire universe is working so I can see myself, how very cool is that? I didn't much get past the latter awesome part. Not yet. Let me swell around in it awhile

I'd read that Santi teaches it but as far as I can tell there was nothing called that in KAP 1. My post was a spontaneous one about effort. Sorry if it lead you down the garden path!

By the time I'd finished reading it it wasn't so much a question of how many sexes are there. Certainly there was nothing perverse or even titillating in there (if I want that, I know what to read ) in fact it was quite a boring book from an erotic POV. But it wasn't a boring book from all kinds of other POV. definitely increased compassion for others for me (and for me;-)) for example.

Hum. A "spiritual" path might need some defining. I consistently suggest to myself that there are big differences between "spirituality" and "religion" as well as bleedthrough. Many vehicles. "Safe" for me includes: - examples of people (if not actual guidance from teachers) who have gone through similar with similar results - help when things hit the fan (which they likely will at some point whatever the vehicle). Fine with warriordom but to sit back while someone else suffers knowing full well what you could to to help alleviate is IMO just cruelty - teaching useful techniques (or if a teacher of a technique with inherent risks - being available for when things hit the fan) - no expectation on the part of anyone (teacher or otherwise) that I will adopt any agenda they might wish to pass off on me either as part of the teaching or as a result - no abuse of me period. At times I may not be operating at my best (because I just tore down a belief system and I'm in full cognitive dissonance for example)

I'd understood Fate to be things I can't change - like where I was born, the day and the time, my sex, eye colour, parental home / conditions into which I'm born, genetic heritage, the list can go on. I'd understood Karma to be just "action" but that the term (I'd need help with the source) actually includes all kinds of stuff: acting, thinking, moving towards or away from something... It's starting to suggest itself to me that Karma might be any "action" (and I'll include the short list above) that is disproportionate to the "real" conditions acted upon. The immediate net result would be an imbalance which would in turn effect the conditions, changing them, and so on ad nauseum. I'm not educated about the terms, but it also reminds me of "wu-wei" - in the above case eating when full would not be wu-wei. Some people also designate "good" and "bad" Karma - which would IMO lead into more of a discussion about morality.

This is a good one I picked up http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Spectrum-Exploring-Human-Diversity/dp/1551926814 It still probably doesn't answer the spirituality part for everyone, but I thought it was excellent on sexuality (which for me is half the issue )

I don't practice Tenaga Dalam but I liked this "People should realize that it's not easy at all to understand the mechanism which this all works in the beginning unless you are some hard-core yogin who goes pure veg and meditates for days in a cave etc." I was thinking there might be a recognition of efforts worth putting across whatever your practice. "Better to finish"

I feel like I would enjoy your book Ya Mu! As far as "spiritual lineage" is concerned, I see it as those people (not books, although they may also have written) I call upon when things get a bit too much for me to handle by myself. Some of them are obvious because of the teachers I went towards (Santi, Glenn and Soke Hatsumi). Some of them not as obvious (I will include some terrible family members as well!) Aside from that, I get inspiration from whereever it may come. Not all of it comes from tradition. It may also come from TTB's!! Watch out! There are some very smart, compassionate, interesting people here...