Birch

I was just saying the other day that it's not fun (for me) to realize this kind of thing ;-) The realisation lends itself to absurdity which can lead some people (I'm guessing) to dark realisations and some people to lightness. I'm not sure that either of those are spontaneous per se...nor would I wish them upon anyone. I'd suggest that having a "backup plan" such as a compassionate tradition or some kind of practice is a pretty good safety net - which is why you would do well in choosing such a tradition or such a practice.

Only humans are "hopeful". I think The reason to work with the bitch nature is to save ourselves because we are / have a part in/of it. And I say "bitch" in a most respectful manner. Don't fall for the "Darwinist" ideas that some people have been wielding around for decades to justify their own (maybe suicidal) actions. Some of their goals are also political;-) Yes, great idea! Let's anchor our ideology in nature (or, failing that, God) and then we can do whatever we want as long as we can justify it above their heads! But they fail to recognize that we have the same head;-)

So the pic is supposed to be sexually appealing?? To who(m) exactly? This is OT so skip and maybe rethread if it happens: More seriously (as it seems I often say;-)) it would seem that now it's young MEN (joining the ranks of young women) who have body-image issues and resort to some pretty out there practices like steroids, gym-bunnyism, shit like that. To be sure, I'm seeing way more pumped teens than when I was at school. We were all seriously pale and gawky then. I sometimes wonder if they feel it's worth it.

Hey Serene, I guess it's up to Santi to decide if this is bringing it down or not;-) Either way, you are entitled to your opinion about your practice as well as your own way of considering sex. I personally felt some of the stuff a bit too bawdy for me;-) but then I fell asleep in the middle of it too (sound familiar to anyone;-)?) I must add that I prefer to "tune in" to the guys on any of these calls as I resonate badly with some of the girls, just the way it is;-) This would also be a pretty accurate reflection of how I am in the offline world. Girls don't always dig me and I think this is something crucial for me to go find out about...ah mother! (bitch;-)) The other thing I was thinking about was that it was a public chat. I think in a "private" setting, it would be less people and maybe more intimate to "go there". Editing due to current Kunlun posts: I'm against techniques involving shaming and humiliation in a public or private setting. Just so we're clear.

What do you mean? That I am wrong to find the guy hot? Or are you making references to some unseen reality that I'm not getting ;-) ? Edited to assure Vaj that I have some order of ego-perspective. Vaj, on an absolute level, you're just as hot as inappropriate yoga guy, happy;-)?

Thanks for the points Mal. My OS won't take the old version of Skype and the version I have won't allow public chats so I will HAVE to plug in via your suggestions. Good experiment! Besides, I've been feeling like something's up for the past few days and when I found out "full moon" it was an easy rationalization (maybe too easy ) I've been wondering if things are resonating with KAP when classes are on (a bit like Elliot in ET for those who know what decade that movie was in;-)) or if it's other stuff.

If anyone sets up an "ist-trap" on this thread I will have to escape! I love our ist-friends, don't get me wrong. But if they do it, I will not suffer;-) More seriously. Suffering to me feels like a sort of a strain. It's a movement that is not with the way things are (including myself in that idea of things). So maybe from a Taoist perspective it would be un-wu-wei? Which is not a proper term. I think there's a better translation than "suffering" when it comes to the original term which I believe is dhukka (sp?)

Awesome pic Mal! Can I pin you up?

Why try to eliminate (or reduce) desire? Just don't do the thing if it's not the "right" thing to do ("right" thing for who?) I see that often, people want to extinguish desire as a means to avoid doing "the wrong thing" and so they suffer. I do think that suffering is the act of straining to close the gap between the way things are and how one would like them to be.

I thought he looked hot ;-)

Cool! Thanks for the links. But I have a dumb question. What does my imagination have to do with String Theory (or time for that matter)? Ok, a few ideas (yes, circular on purpose): - my imagination and string theory absolutely hook up - wow, that would be cosmic! Also totally validating of my imagination! - my imagination and string theory are way apart - this means one of us is "right" - but we can't both be, right ? - my imagination is cute if we're talking about anything apart from theory - string or otherwise- never the twain shall meet - string theory explains my imagination

Hum, this is my uneducated opinion. The earth is pissed at us these days. For the rest, I'm very interested in the different perspectives. I'm thinking it's maybe a bad idea to try to "project" anything onto anyone as long as I don't know what I'm doing. Besides, people will take up enough of you and in the way that suits them depending on where they're at and what you're willing to offer. I'm thinking best to offer best wishes for a speedy recovery and a compassionate ear in many cases. Perhaps healing heroism is not such a great goal - I emphasize heroism;-) What I might think is "good" for someone could actually be "bad". Also the potential problem of having it straight back at you and not having the knowledge to deal with it- what the mechanism is, whether to describe it as "sick" or not or whether this is instant or not... n00b talking but enjoying thread

I like what Sunshine said;-) Besides, it's true!

I tried it a while back. At the time I could hardly muster a metta without blubbing ;-) I agree that it must come at the "right" time for each person. I think it unlikely that someone who is not already practicing some form of awareness or who was "read up" on techniques would be the best candidate. I wouldn't suggest this one for a first meditation;-) I could be wrong as always...

I don't know any formally so I make them up. I have no idea whether or not this is "advisable" but I do it anyway. For "the past" - I just go there in my imagination. What happens when I meet "myself" there is I provide what I think I was needing at the time. If I don't know, then I just sit with. For "the future" - just do the same. The likely problem is that the "future" will be idealized in a really positive way so unless you're willing to show up "there" and bring mindfulness to the situation, I don't see the point. Although if that's what you want to do, might as well do it here and now. I could also argue "well, same for past" but I find it helps so why not both directions?

Yup AND blasto-ing your way through it is to forget that it's not in isolation from the rest. See, this is where it's a tough call to bring techniques into a culture that doesn't have the attitude to go with them;-) Besides, your present idea of will and balls may be no more than an attempt to overpower. I wouldn't suggest you go there. I don't believe you have to burn your heart to open it, it can open all by itself if you take care of yourself and others.

Thanks for pointing out my self-righteousness Scott!

I was just about to post something I thought was funny. Then I realized it wasn't. It was more of an insult to Vajrah because I feel he's taking up a lot of space saying pretty much the same stuff all the time. I think it's the way you say it Vajrah. The intention is great. Not sure about the rest. The road to hell etc... The thing that annoys me the most is when we get what I think (obviously I'm speaking from my POV) is an interesting thread that suddenly turns into a match of some kind that seems to me to be not directly applicable to the original topic. Sometimes a sparring march between you and some other folks. I don't like reading those. I think that Buddhist viewpoints have a lot to offer on many subjects and I keep seeing things being "reduced" back to a few precepts. I already know that everything CAN be reduced to them as much as I know that everything is Tao. What many people posting on TTB's are exchanging about (again, my take) is the direct, living application of Taoist practice, Buddhist viewpoints, Sufi explanations, Mevlevi poetry, Celtic insight, Gaia-consciousness, Kundalini evolution, cosmic resonance, love...and I would prefer to see you Vajrah use some wider application in your posts to people - dare I say I would hope that you are gaining something from posting here? Otherwise I would simply ask that you use some awareness and concern for what others are writing as well as your own postings.

Wow Blasto, that sounds like some serious burn you have going! What are you trying to burn with it? I'll let the TCM folks answer the rest. As I read somewhere and will now badly paraphrase: "I have the questions to all of your answers" ;-) There are some interesting people "out there" who discuss the skin as: - an ecology (different bits of it have different eco-systems which is why you won't get the same rash everywhere) - an interface - a place

Hi Marblehead, Do you have an online link to the show? That would be interesting. I enjoy the activity of lining "spiritual" and "scientific" things up with each other. I guess I find myself in-between;-) The other thing that absolutely makes sense to me is the idea that the body itself is the time traveler whereas the mind is inadvertently caught in the present moment (ah the irony when so many people would like to be in "The Now", well, that's where you always are;-))and through the body - the events resonate. That made lots of sense. Kind of OT but still;-) check out the body forms that certain professions seem to take up collectively! I don't know that I could go as far as Reich (sp?) on that. The question I need to ask about him was whether he was working from a single cultural perspective or whether he was looking at humanity as a whole? Back to topic! I find myself working with "material" that I know comes initially from other people (and I was too young to consciously choose to integrate it or not) but the bum deal is that I did integrate it anyway and so now that I have recognized it as useless for who I am now, I need to find the right approach for getting rid of it without rejecting that part of myself (because the thing is integrated;-)) and as a result risking a form of cognitive dissonance that would be even less useful. While I practice the approach of bringing consistent awareness and non-action (or right action) to bear on material like this, to be honest I'm presently finding the approach kind of inefficient. It requires an awful lot of energy! It's as if (to quote an old saw;-)) "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.";-) It could also just be that my way of approaching it is inefficient, in which case I'm willing to learn other ways. Doing KAP with this in mind;-)

"Dirt', be it physical or non-physical feeds parasites, be it physical parasites or non-physical. Of course they don't want you to take away their cozy environment... So they feed you up with wild excuses (see above "Some body parts should not be approached with the goal of pacifying the mind..." - it sounds cool, but does it make sense?? Your body is your own.) ------------------------------ So, if I've understood correctly, that was the parasites talking to/through me? I hadn't looked at it like that. Interesting. Thanks! It reminds me of some horrible stories!

Back to OT. From what I've understood and subsequently read, memories are present-generated, narrative in terms of our current experience and not in terms of our actual experience at the time we (first?) experienced them. So the baggage per se is just something we're carrying around (why we do that is another really interesting question - maybe it's useful sometimes?) So yes, everything of ours, our past, our present, our future is experienced in the present, even if actual events took place in the past, are happening now or will take place in the future. The question I need to ask myself after that one is "but what actually happens apart from my experience then?" and I don't know the answer to that!

Some body parts should not be approached with the goal of pacifying the mind... What I was getting at was a desire to do things to the body out of ego-ing (I haven't found a name for the activity yet;-)) I think it happens sometimes very obviously as in "I want to diet to lose weight so I can fit in my jeans and look hot and be desired/accepted/loved" and sometimes not so obviously - as in "I need to suppress my pain to achieve a peaceful spiritual state" or "I need to cleanse my aura" also assuming it's dirty in the 1st place means you can see it already, right? And if you can't see it, what's making you think it might be dirty? From what I'm getting an understanding of, the body experience is just the way things are. The mind experience of the body is often different and I suppose mistaken sometimes (read about panic attacks and you'll get the drift) . Of course sometimes it's not mistaken. And many of the techniques some of us are learning seem to be about refining the relationship between body and mind. I'm wondering if there are cases where something like colon cleansing (which seems quite major!) is maybe a mistaken technique to use on a body and whether there could be gentler ways to approach it like changing diet and things. But maybe not.

I don't care. But I guess I do enough to post this. And so do you! I'd love to hear about your rationale for insulting people. Or is it their fault they're insulted? I'm not insulted, I'm curious. If you're going to go be "enlightened" then does it make sense to stick with ego-based emotions and then throw them around a bit to see what sticks to who? I thought the point was to get over yourself - maybe it isn't. I guess you'll get enlightened if the universe wants you to.

Thanks Mikaelz for your answer. I guess I just have some body things figured as being "mind-accessible" and some other things not. AND I figured it could be easier on some body parts NOT to be approached with the goal of pacifying mind, although I do understand when things become an inconvenience (I am almost sure you will say downright painful). It seems very complicated to me. Sending you all love. I have no idea if love will work on your insides;-) but I reckon it does work only if you can take what you think of it is good for you. Obviously leave aside the stuff you consider unnecessary or ridiculous. I'm sure there's some ridiculousness in my post. Throw it away with whatever else you don't like! Kate