Birch

"A disorder of physics"? Right, Where's that gif of the soaring seagull? I have no idea what you mean Mr North. Physics doesn't bother with this consciousness problem. Well, it does a bit, but only because it's staring it in the face.

I liked Dr Hyatt's suggestion of finding out which personality disorders one has then being aware of them manifesting. It was kind of hardcore mindfulness with social commentary thrown in. I wouldn't recommend if feeling depressed though. And not at the stranger moments of kundalini.

I should mention, as I said to Apech, God is just another god that has gone too far for his own boots (not without cooperation from men. I suppose I ought to be 'PC' and say men and women though, but I don't believe it).

Words can also be a solution, as they might point a way to a different experience. I was contemplating gods earlier and figured if they did disappear, whole swathes of human experience might also. But maybe not. Umberto Ecco is a great guide in this respect.

Practice definitely brought depression up for me (or 'uncovered' it, whichever you prefer) so I had (have) to address that as part of it. There are documented stages of 'dark night' related to practice. I took some heart in that, but I still had (have) to work with what I've got. My choice has been therapy and some amount of 'being normal' (hahaha). This too shall pass. Be kind to yourself.

How did you get to the Buddhism link Chris? I didn't see how (blue words not links).

I don't get the sense we are saying exactly the same thing. It's IMO something to watch out for when comparing and also how 'conceptual drift' happens in belief-systems. I'm personally struggling with the 'everything looks like a nail' thing at the moment. Reading about practices and belief systems has gotten impossible to do without me cross-referencing all over the place:-). I reckon it's your personal attribution of 'I' to an impersonal consciousness that's the main difference here (as I understand it). I also suppose a button doesn't become one without repeated pushing to start with. Then, of course, it can become an automatic tripswitch and relatively difficult to find and undo. But I'm finding almost always in my personal explorations that something occurred to create that 'button'. We can get into ideas of predisposing factors (what would they be?). I feel as if karma theory overshoots some of this, or maybe it's just not explicit enough.

Haha, that I very much doubt :-)

Ralis, if that's going to happen, then also should be done towards all the 'victim-blaming' philosophies peddled, the 'positive thinking' New Age stuff, the 'pray to God' suggestions and on and on. Personally I'd rather see lively discussion around these topics that encourages people to find things out for themselves.

Well God is a god if you see what I mean, but it has gotten out of hand. The Gnostics knew it would and so that's why they got ripped to shreds by Christian chariots. Are there ANY esoterics left inside the monotheisms?

Sauron or my own wish to be liked 'for who I am'? Haha, that last one just doesn't work but at least now I understand why a little more:-)

What makes you think I wasn't always one? Why do you reckon I've gotten so much flack;-)? It's not (just) a question of politics. Ok, back into hiding.

There's a thread about this in the off topic section. To repeat, I'm not interested in more control. And in this one I'd add that I'm adverse to appeals to authority of the majority too. And I think the word 'troll' is unhelpful.

I just read it! And while reading it I thought of your post about Drumvalo.

Yeah, I don't believe in a personal creation through Bardo. An impersonal one, definitely. And post-heaven, it becomes 'yours' of course, as long as consciousness is allowed. In saying it's hard to explain how this stuff has to do with 'stealing potential' I really do mean it's hard to explain. But I'll make an attempt. If you get to the point where you are conscious of your life and behaviours and reactions and are able to choose to express them otherwise from what they would have been had they been unconscious, you 'steal' the potential of that whole for yourself (not the one that was just following through as conditioned). So if someone makes a 'button-pushing' attempt and you recognize it but don't follow (or defend) then you have that potential of energy for yourself. Joe B and PythagoreanFL do a better explanation, but I'm trying another one:-) Edit: typo

..."all matter is frozen or slowed down light" David Bohm I call this the 'condensed milk analogy'.

Thanks PythagoreanFL! Interesting. I have other questions about how 'heart energy' can be dangerous to others. And what about directing it to its source (which is complicated, I think because where is the actual source?) The green light, yes 'seen' it (internally during pre-sleep or as part of a dream). It's definitely a visual experience. I have some subjective experiences of 'telepathy' that could be confused with just knowing what a given person tends to do. A 'hunch'. Not so clear cut.

It's certainly an ideal to strive for Manitou. At this point in my path I have had to stand up to people that are bullying me or putting me down. It can be daunting sometimes and people who have been used to expecting compliance on my part or that I will meet their attempts at abusive behaviours or powergrabbing with graceful silent acceptance are often enraged when I do stand up to them. I do not consider this to be an issue of 'buttons' although people who wish to attack or powergrab are often very good at understanding what they are, or what they might be. This is also my 'responsibility', to not make those so apparent, or not to care to defend them if they are. I find it relates to 'stealing potential' quite well. But that part is harder to explain.

I question the 'always' part of it too. There are suggestions (from studies of other cultures) that these things are not always so. So what makes them so? Some arguments lie along the 'human primate nature' vector (which is an interesting vector to begin with). Others deal with interventions of one kind or another (and what kind exactly is another very interesting one). Whatever the reasons for the way it is, what I find interesting is knowing it doesn't have to be the way it is.

PythagoreanFL. What you said does remind me of a few experiences. I won't get into them. However I had the experience of banging my shin really hard and a skilled energy worked said it was because of anger. I wondered why I would injure myself if I was angry at someone else. So when you say "So a couple weeks ago I sprained my wrist using the bow saw too strongly -- but the real reason was repressed anger. A couple months ago I sprained my left knee from working but again the real reason was repressed anger." could you say more about that? Also "The liver is how we can build up power - but we have to be careful" what do you mean? What do we have to be careful of? I have an idea that at this point, the liver (and I'd put it very squarely into the 3rd chakra area) is very involved in power, power struggles, sense of self and is a fulcrum of sorts. But that's my subject POV of it. Thanks! Edit: formatting

I'm still studying around the topic. Some things coming through: - idea that foreknowledge is about atuning you to your destiny rather than changing it as such. - knowing your starting conditions allows you to change them at the level they originate at (energetic) and not just 'manage' them once they have manifested (physical, events, capacities) - energetic-level changes often act on the body before the mind - outer changes (environmental) act on both the body and the mind (some are a bit more 'esoteric' but I haven't got a sense of those properly yet) - lots of different forces are acting at all times. 'Man luck' (human luck) is only one. Interactions between them are to be carefully studied (gravity is apparently a form of 'karma') - forces on the level that influence humans the most are discoverable and relatively predictable - meditation and mindfulness contributes to changing energetic and manifest-level conditions - pretty much every source I've come across mentions 'virtue'

"I think a lot of times understanding is derived through the twists and turns a conversation can take." This sits well with me but those who know know why:-) I've not adverse to structure but am towards control. The people exerting their influence to twist a thread are one thing, the people avoiding posting because their influence is unable to untwist it are another. The number of times I've heard something along the lines that the 'high-level folks' have stopped posting because of yada yada is pretty impressive. Personally I find it somewhat, unhelpful to turn up at a forum, proclaim mastery, bag your students and then not return to contribute. But that's just me:-)

Wow, that opinion of your fellows is low Ralis and co.

Many things, all good. Has definitely contributed to my sanity. Has forced me to discourse with less recourse to my lesser angels. Has interesting stuff in it. And people in it:-)

I'd get slaughtered for thread fluffery. I don't think I'd be inclined to post much at all if this 'productivity' thing was involved. I've been on forums with much stricter rules and it felt very uptight and much more clique-ish. Which is diametrically opposite to a situation conducive to engaging and sharing with others. I think people are doing quite well policing themselves and I appreciate the way threads get moved if they fluff up too much. I do use the search from time to time and I know which posters have 'got it' so I read them often.