Birch

I liked that because of the idea about certainty as sentiment. However, I was under the impression that the act of 'doing science' was about something else, as in 'not certainty' but something of an exploration. I'm thinking if certainty is required for the activities of science then what are the unintended consequences of that? Just sort of rambling here. No argument in particular.

Er, Aaron "...allow others to define that self for us. This self is..." isn't that sort of saying you're doing what you don't like other people doing? I guess another question is where and when do people start doing this (defining self and others). Another one is, when and where do they realise that those descriptions don't really hold much water? Other (new) descriptions might. And, do they ever stop doing it? My current opinion is that all that is very fluid. I've also caught myself in the act of purposefully defining myself in relation to someone else with a specific intent, sometimes I catch it in the nick of time, sometimes not.

Larry Kirkwood http://www.dcmemorials.com/index_indiv0002944.htm#info

Do you have examples of objective truths? I'm finding it tough to understand the part about objective truths changing and how you'd (or me'd) go about recognizing them.

One giving and the other taking? Sounds about right for the IRS. What about the pyramid, oh King:-)?

What if stopped concerning with whether it's inside or out? I reckon it makes a difference if concerning one way or the other. I don't want to say 'you' because I don't want to say who might or might not concern themselves any which way (or % ways because I'm almost sure some people mix it up either by assuming absolute control or influence over everything, just some things, just some things in some cases and others not or none whatsoever none of the time.)

It's an undying thread. It comes back every so often.

Granted. Due to its incredibly high network speed and data storage capacities your telco costs are now equivalent to the GDP of Belgium. I wish I wasn't obsessed with interior design.

Yacht. If you stare at this word long enough something will happen. I'm sure my practices have helped IRL. And I've been in touch with real masters here. And there's very little risk of cult mentality:-)

I see what you mean. I hadn't thought of it that way. I mean I'm relatively apathetic already. I know I shouldn't be but I'm up against some heavy 'prevailing winds' as they say.

No, this time I got it:-) But what I'm saying is as long as the experience of it does not include having a chip the size of a grain of rice planted under my skin in order to send me instructions I'm good:-) Now if they start doing that, I will not wish to play any more.

You're correct. I didn't understand it that way the first time. I was going to ask you how you would go about showing this idea of yours to be the case. In the case of god, all you have to do is go look for god. Mr MH, why didn't you like the post? I didn't like it much either. The reason for that is I feel there's already some amount of truth to the idea that humans have already crossed over into a very virtual way of being and conducting their lives. That someone would just go ahead and say that's the way things are anyway, well I guess I can't really blame them. Especially if they were born into the world with all this virtual stuff already here. This one gave me a bit of nausea. But so did the idea that I wasn't 'reified' when I first heard it (had to pronounce the r-word for this one). Now as long as these proponents of AI everywhere don't end up making it mandatory to have it 'hardwired' into our bodies (and I don't care if it's only the size of a grain of rice). I couldn't give a crap. Yes, even with my 'non-body'. However, if the superstring mutliverse dudes are correct, then all I have to do is jump dimensions where none of this shit is going down:-)

Which means Apech can start posting about Egyptian thing much much more:-)

I'm wondering how you would be able to come up with an idea of a god (of any kind) unless you already had one as an idea. Ok, so now your god is human. Does that change anything? --- opinion based on experience of dancing around living room having experienced the 'no god out there' realization----

Further to Turtle's post on symbolism in Western settings. Recall Seth in the Reiki thread said: "Well advertising is a billion dollar industry for a reason. Sigils are tied to an Intent. The Cross is a sacred symbol from many cultures, representing the wholeness of life, but in a christian context well it represents protection/blessings from Jesus, God or church... Also you are probably not 'inviting' it as a child so it is not the same as a reiki attunement where you are consciously opening yourself up to recieve the symbols and energy. But still just being near them affects you. We are interrelated with our environment." And on the website I posted above: " The being comprehends symbols at different levels, from his human condition to the metaphysical and properly supra-human order. Indeed, the symbol finds its source beyond the human world, within the divine Principle or Unity at the origin of the manifested world diversity. Any being or thing is related to the Unity, from which it constitutes a reflection. Symbolism does not express, it suggests a correspondence between Unity and diversity, the non-manifested and the manifested, the invisible and the visible, night and day, darkness and light as the lotus coming out from depths to surface waters." What I understand of this, is that a symbol is an imposition upon something. Much like we might insist that something fall under a specific model or concept - even if experience (or additional observation) suggests otherwise. Even if our wishes are otherwise. if you ask the people who did the JayZ choreography what their intent was for throwing in a 3rd chakra mudra, I wonder if they would be able to say.

Ah, but the wrapping doesn't always tell you what's inside:-) I've met some very handsome raving sociopaths:-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAp9sFVdERQ

Some to stay well away from:-)

That was an interesting post Turtle and Apech. I'm good with shamanic visions as long as they're not being thrown at me by TBTB:-) In other words, I'd rather people had their own shamanic visions and that the latter were encouraged (currently not the case, as far as I know) through self-discovery. As for her very big tattoo of Maat on her chest. Which she said was Isis, but apparently not. Well that's something else. Apech, anything from Hancock you think is a must see/read?

I still think ridiculing people with the 'conspiracy theorist' term is off-colour AND I do appreciate a thread that sticks to the point. Should be possible to do both, perhaps not all at the TTBs however.

Thing about computer model is it posits a creator. Which I'm not up for. Creator = separation. Plus all that god stuff which direct experience usually shoots to rot. Possible I've been doing it wrong, but emptiness isn't at all barren and it's not somewhere else. Nor a closed system :-)

Er, helpful perhaps to approach what a mortal is before approaching what an immortal is? To me a mortal has body, mind (and some say spirit and some say just more mind but then they put that mind everywhere and have it change into everything, even bodies and minds and spirits) So the first part would be fully understanding what a mortal is (only because it might turn out not to be what you think at first). So I think a person could have a realisation of some kind about their mortality and their immortality without doing anything about either, because realizing something implies it was already the case. The other stuff, taking an individual consciousness (which if you look at the above doesn't make as much sense anymore, but I suppose since you already have what you consider to be one it also ought to be doable) and making sure it remembers itself from life to life, hum. Physical longevity, well it depends again upon what is physical. So you can do physical things or if you see it as I posted above, you can do other things that would not be considered physical but would be considered mind or spirit. Personally I'm having a hard time seeing where one starts and the rest stops (I perceive the change in perception as the gap, maybe I need some Zen master to bonk me on the foot?)

Well I guess Greek symbolism also counts as Western.

Could the Western symbols be said to be mostly of Egyptian origin? Where did those come from?

It's certainly a big mess. Throw in there some asanas (which I recently came across a book about showing their mythological origins) and I suspect no-one knows much what they're doing. Personally I'd like to avoid the use of 'conspiracy theory' as it just shuts down what might be a valid interpretation or prevents otherwise smart people from doing their own research and discussing for fear of being labelled crazy. What mudra would JayZ be doing without his knowledge? That one I've used for 3rd chakra stuff. It's a fire mudra as far as I know. Interesting post Jetsun. Edit http://www.amazon.com/Myths-Asanas-Ancient-Origins-Yoga/dp/1601090579/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1354459492&sr=1-3&keywords=Asanas

I wonder how many people are still really watching mass anything? I disagree on the 'Demonic Nation' thing. These are people who likely didn't ask to be where they're at.