Birch

Hmm, I used to think something along those lines that people who used less words, or a 'poorer' vocabulary had 'poorer' interior lives and indeed tended to be financially less well off. These days I'm tempted to call BS on that one. Why exactly? Because I don't think everything is worth embroidering. Say what one means and all that :-) So if I say 'shit happens' it is actually what I mean. Had I wished to say 'shift' or any synonym I think it's likely I would have. In fact one person telling another what they mean is exactly how lots of shit happens IMO.

"Science" is not a thing, nor a body of knowledge, it's a human (assumed) activity. 2cts there. I did enjoy reading Mike's post as it had 'gist-value' for me from practice and personal study. But that's still a bit dangerous IMO, to say yes to an explanation because it makes sense:-)

Oh, personal present foibles to do with language and whether or not it adequately describes reality. And if not, what possible uses for it?

Hum! I reckon you would have enjoyed our lunch today Mr MH:-) It would have been fun for me to see you with various folks. Happy F day to all!

You had to put the 'f'-)

I figured there were a few different takes in there that seemed to cover a lot of what gets discussed on here. Really, I don't know which of them were the 'right' one when it comes to 'enlighenment' since as far as I know, I'm not enlightened. What I do reckon is that potentially one is asking the same 'thing' to attempt different stuff on itself towards different ends, none of which (apparently) it's particularly good at (whether killing itself, accepting itself or loving itself - at least this has been my short experience so far). I do wonder why a 'spiritual acheivement' would be of such little benefit to the person themselves? Or is there some 'wider' shit happening? Right now I'm thinking the gunk thrown off by the sea (foam) could be a good example.

A cook will wash his before. Don't want that hot pepper where you don't! Edit: Wait a minute Mr MH, are you saying Marines=no hands???

Not too sure what to make of this but thought it pertinent to this thread http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j17/self_acceptance.asp Personally, I don't know what the actual case is, but I reckon I do know about what happens when different stances are taken. Part of practice (I reckon) is to willingly adopt a few of them to see what happens.

I would like to add that folk days relative to people's environments aren't that arbitrary. I think the hat thing is really interesting. But then I like the minutae, like diet and dancing and crap like that. The Catholic church would have me fixated in study if I didn't hate the institution quite as much. In fact, look at the absence of environmental or ecological concerns in the Catholic canon. I know there are some folks in the US trying to fix that, but the religion itself doesn't have ecology as practice. As far as I know, anyway.

Reckon Dwai is also a good teacher. Sorry for the n00b judgement Dwai but I did reckon your suggestions were good. So lucky on TTbs to have so many good folks!

Hey Twinner! I almost replied to your first of 2 posts about it 'not being all about the person' or the person 'not being the centre of the universe'. I thought it worth suggesting that there are POV where a person does finally understand they are BOTH a centre of the universe and 'just' one of the centers. So telling them they're not is IMO only part of the story. I was going to explain more about it but now I can't be bothered, as I'm finishing dinner (that sounds terrible).

I'm tempted by Burning Man, Las Vegas and California (no especial order) and at the same time I reckon they are Mad places where I would lose my order. hahahaha. you think kundalini is something;-)

" scratch you behind the ears" - yes I know what you're talking about:-) I always did that for my best ex BF (I found it a bit animalish but he was very happy with it:-)). At the time I discarded it for myself (he extolled the pleasures of scratchiness here and there) because I figured I was 'too polite'. Hahahaha.

So sorry to read of all your bad times! Many things and people on this forum have helped me. I'm not very sure where to start because I would like to help. But I do disagree with 'forgiveness' of others if you do not include yourself in the process. The point IMO/IME is not to absolve others of their wrongdoing and maintain your own (one might argue) skewed impression of yourself as a result (often one sees oneself at fault if wrong is done to one by others). If you forgive, everyone has to be in on it, including yourself. I don't know why 15 year old would tell others that no-one loves them on a daily basis. The expectation/suspicion is that that's all a person knows/has received themselves if they repeat it enough. But really, I don't know. Many good wishes for you.

"our scientists choose to ignore multifunctional purpose of the sexual release and ascribe only procreational goals to it on the grounds of sheer superficiality of analysis. " THIS! and http://www.amazon.com/Unconscious-Civilization-John-Ralston-Saul/dp/0684871084 on the language/information thingy

It's tough IMO to take a 'present day' (whatever that is) stance from our current (conditioned) perspective on something in the past or elsewhere and 'retro-understand it' or 'here-understand it' relative to current expressions and understandings and practices. Are the contexts really the same? I mean in some texts they are explicitly described in ways we reckon we recognize (and I have personally enjoyed and found damn useful doing so myself) or just interpreted as such? The devil is (thankfully) in the details. Obviously I congratulate you on your NOWness :-) I'm just up for examining it.

I do think there are commonalities but to approach each religion (and religious practice) as if they were ALL simply different versions of the same thing is IMO both valuable and dangerous. 'Valuable and dangerous to whom' are IMO up for discussion at every point, place and time, this question arises. No doubt IMO however that when it comes to 'beliefs', the latter are more fixed and more subject to degradation due to context, time, people,... anything really that pushes beliefs (and as a consequence all that stems from them) into a fixed position relative to actual living reality which is much more dynamic (one could reflect here on 'dynamic religions', or 'system-thinking' and why the latter - such as Taoism might 'live on' beyond other systems which need much more forceful impressions upon people for the latter to take them on (fire does burn wood;-)). What are you taking as 'baseline' for 'same'? - IMO/IME it's tempting to take a very broad brush from one's own background and forays into other 'very different' practices (like Westerner practicing 'Eastern' stuff for example) and say 'that over there in that place and time is 'the same' as what I'm practicing now'. One, it can't be 'the same' as the person practicing now is not the same person as was practicing in that other time, place, space. And IMO and small experience, doing so, one may miss out on something critical to spiritual development. Assuming that's the goal of spiritual practice - and not anything like I mentioned in the other thread (like current socioeconomic-sexual-political agendas)

This is a site I found useful. Can't actually vouch for the veracity of the information but I preferred a 'scientico' approach (a bit like our Chi Dragon here:-)) http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=fireandwater2

Abject terror was a feeling I went through a couple of times. Not to be confused with panic. MCO seemed to dissipate the intensity of whatever I was feeling or smooth it out wherever the energy was 'stuck' - although now I wonder if it wasn't more my attention that was stuck, anyway, that bit of theory might or might not help in the middle of it. The 'tongue-up' thing was recommended by Santiago at KAP and I've since read it multiple times. When I didn't do it a couple of times I got 'sparks coming off my tongue" (this is what it felt like, I'm not saying there were actual sparks anyone who might have been there could see). I used it like a 'safety' with the intent that things would go well if I did so. You can wonder later whether I'd just convinced myself with this technique, but there's a lot to be said for convincing oneself in the midst of terror that all will be well. The belly-breathing was just to avoid hyperventilation/panic. Also a good 'place' to hold attention if your thoughts are going haywire IME. Heavier diet, just seemed to dampen the energy. Which is/was fine by me. If it doesn't work for you, something else will. Ah, just popped into my head the special Ayahausca diet but I think it's to facilitate absorption of the substances. Definitely would go ask the shaman.

Sorry in advance that I won't be able to help more with this post, but from experience, 'grounding' energy if it's 'too far up' involved switching to a heavier diet, increasing physical activity/exercise and a lot of drawing attention down below LDT. At the time it was out the bottom of the feet. I also used MCO as a catch-all (tongue up) and belly-breathing to get through the fear/abject terror. Does it help if I say 'this too shall pass'? I reckon this would be worth getting your system's teacher or advanced student on email about.

Hello Astralprojectee (wow, name!) I would like to answer your questions, but would you mind if I asked some too? ---snip--- How far are you spiritually? - What do you mean? I take 'spiritual' to mean 'non-material' and that can be both 'thought/mind/imagination' as much as it can be 'other' stuff Can you move energy around? - Within what I consider 'my field' which is just a foot or so beyond my physical body - yes. Can you open peoples chakras? - No, although I do reckon I can 'tell' more or less where a person 'is' - chakras are focal points IMO/IME but the 'spread' is variable. How powerful is the energy that you can build up? - Personal, not much at all:-) But if I remember where I'm 'plugged in' I guess that's quite some:-) [/b] Can you take peoples karma out of them put it into yourself and deal with it? - No. And why would I? Then maybe you can say at the end how much further you know you can go with the current Taoist practices out there. - I'm an extremely 'rotten' Taoist. There's all kinds of stuff I could do and don't.

I think there are teachers who have left me because I wasn't 'something' enough (or whatever conditions are in play) to pursue whatever levels their teaching gets to. To take a tangent, I'm not professional tennis-player material. Nor synchronized swimming material, nor am I spy-material or army-material or anything much really. I'm a gnarly tree:-) I know it and I suspect teachers know it too... That's not to say that one day a teacher (or several) and I might find something to 'do' with this particular configuration of person and practice and times and places. More seriously, I do reckon teachers find you rather than the reverse. I mean you find each other. --opinion etc---

Good to read your contributions Astralc:-) May I permit that they also have a bit of the 'too rapid' in them? Don't get me wrong, I think what you're saying is spot on:-) I guess also maybe timely Where do you teach out of?

Edit: doublepost

So you are presently 'incarnated'? It does sound superfluous but when that gets pointed out, what does a person do in response? Personally I don't believe in reincarnation as in the same person gets reborn into a different body (or if I think about it, that would have to be a pretty high-level achievement to maintain ). I do believe in incarnation. I do think we (i) identify with our bodies so whatever gets incarnated is (rightly?) assumed to be 'ours'. My way of walking could be something like this but I know it got changed when I was very young because someone else (see 'mother' below) wanted it changed. So it became 'incarnated' but was not mine to begin with. There are quite a few of those examples I could drag up. The other question is how would I have walked 'naturally' had no-one intervened and changed it? I believe in DNA because there is some visible evidence of it (if you look at my parents and me -although never, oh god please, would I ever like to end up looking like my mother- you might believe it too.) But if I were adopted by a family who picked me because they thought I looked like them, then my belief is foundless. But what if I never find out?