Uroboros

Haha. Yes, yes, yes! Its all within the bounds of nature. No matter what exists or is thought of, its within nature. When talking of reversing nature, we are in a way. Sure, its still within nature. BIG Nature. Small nature, being our individual "way" of existing, we change that. often. We dont really go with the flow. We want to feel healthier, so we do things to create that change. What does health often mean? Reversing signs of decay that are associated with aging. Or slowing that decay down. Letting nature take its course, small nature, would just be letting them happen. Not trying to change things. Peace

Animals, wild ones that is, are generally far kinder and wiser then most humans! haha. They feel far more then we do and man has yet to understand how to interact with nature and animals in a peaceful way. Domesticated animals...they, often, are out of touch with their core nature and their instincts are different... A lion kills its prey quickly. A domesticated cat tortures and plays with its prey. Why? Dunno. Maybe it does not really know what to do afterwards. hehe, maybe we are all like the cat, trying to be like the lion.... Peace

There is a difference between chronic dis-ease and short periodic dis-ease. With the short ones, In my experience, its mostly due to exhaustion and over-extending. So a break is a good thing, depending. I always work within the realm of comfort. I practice when my body feels comfortable and for how long. Otherwise, I over-extend and im expending more. Sometimes, the practice itself will bring about changes that can create periods of "weakness". Feelings of sick and pain. It does help to have a good teacher to guide you. If you dont have one, I would just listen to your self. Feel out what seems to help and what does not. Find your limits. Where is the line, where you move from relaxation to over-extending? Where does it stop being comfortable and rejuvinating? That will help, I feel. Atleast, it has with my own practice and life in general. Peace

If you think about it, we often, in our practices "defy" nature. To be more precise, its closer to Reversing Nature. Our bodies do what they do. Well, we learn Cultivation Methods to CHANGE that. Nature is already doing its thing within us and we want to change HOW it does that. Sure, the goals are usually to bring more harmony and such. Still we are changing natures course. We do it all the time, as humans. Another way is thru "Jing" or sexual energy retention/ sublimation. For men, the natural course is for all that energy to be ejaculated into the woman, or anywhere really, for the purpose of passing genetic code/ life force onto the next generation. This happens to be done at the expense of the males life force. Well, we alter that! We Reverse Nature and channel that energy inwards. Instead of expending it towards the next generation, expending our life force in the process, we reverse that process to use the energy to expand our cultivation and growth. Some thoughts. Peace

haha, yep. Intuition- the deepest, truest "pulse" that I can "hear" at the moment. Balance...Hmm..Yes. Balance as a verb, though. An action. Its something that I dont want to "get". its something that I do. Create. Like dancing. I enjoy your question! Its important, I feel. Sometimes its easy to fall into a lull and questioning what we are really doing can help.

Another point of view is that it is possible to "communicate" with the Tiger and there will be no need for violence. It is, I believe, possible to integrate our various systems in such a way that the "laws" change. How to do it? Dunno. Im not there yet. Just a baby, am I. Does that mean its not possible? Nope, just that it may be quite difficult or so simple its mostly overlooked. We each experience our own life and have our own desires/ impulses.....Who knows if what one experiences is the same as what another experiences. Hehehe, the Tao that can be spoken of..... Peace

Yes and No. I "listen" to what is in my experience at the moment. I also "listen" to my heart. What I feel is the truest expression of who I am. I move with my "true" heart expression. I work with the environment around me. So I do both. I go with the flowing river and I walk on the land. Sometimes I will do what has been presented to me if it feels "right". Other times I wont. It depends on what my internal sense "feels". Often times that is just to wait, to enjoy what already is here. Sometimes its to move, to create. Peace.

Those are all wonderful goals/ things to experience. I do feel that they can be done. Since I have little real understanding or experience in regards to them, I leave them alone. My intent now is just to become healthy. With the intent to "see" what those "things" are about and how to go about them. So for now, what am I doing? What I can and what seems best for my current state. Building a solid foundation, transforming the basics- breath, body, mind, eating, etc. I do know what you mean, though. We are capable of so much...how often do we become that? Not often, it seems... Maybe some cannot achieve it, yet their nature has its own full expression and that is what they should go for, I feel.. Peace

Hmm...Ok. Wu and Yu are always together. Like words and meaning. The meaning is not the word and vice versa... One can be seen/ heard, the other can only be felt. Sort of like that? If Wu an Yu are always together....how does one Wu-Wei? It a shift in perspective? In the moment, shifting gears, per say? Such a strange yet powerful concept....Grr. haha.

Thank you for the advice! No worries. I know Wu-Wei and Te have little to do with morality. Morality itself is a concept I care little for. We each have our own idea as to what is right or wrong. That seems to fit nature far more then absolutes. What I think Wu- Wei is, is a state or way of being....thats about where I am. haha. Peace.

Interesting....So you use the Yu to enter into the Wu...I can see how that would work. Sort of like how we start meditating (intention) to enter into emptiness (wu)...then once we are there at a certain point, it becomes natural and no intention is needed to "get" us there? Nature? As in nature all around us and our original nature? Not forcing someone to be other then they are....hmm...I will ponder this and read those threads. Thank you for explaining me some things, CD..

Thank you, CD! I will read those soon! Hehe, seems they alluded me! Not for long...... Thank you, MH! You both been mighty helpful like.

I thought so, too. Searching for Wu-Wei brings up nothing and I dont see any listed when I look thru Taoist Section.. still, some really good threads on here. Reading some on Te and Ch 2 of TTC...Really great perspectives here. Heh, thats what we are doing with ZZ...seeing it from mutliple angles so we can see a more comprehensive, wide view. LIKE PENG! hahaha

Life lived, just existing, is that enough for our heart, our spirit? Do the songs that slumber deep in the minuscule, unending crevices of our spirit, stagnate and rot? There is nothing more vile then an existence without spark, Without songs being sung, For life is music, a symphony of notes and experiences, tastes and textures, Within is a well, a spring for which no end is sighted, Open, it whispers, let me out, drink from me, it cries! And so we shrivel, we harden, we cry silently with dry tears, echoing shrieks in the night of our heart of hearts. We die each day, more then the last. For what is death, if not decay? What is death, if not stagnation? What is death, if not the absence of vitality? This well, this spring of vigor, of vitality is life itself!! Calling forth to us in the deepest recesses of our minds! Go forth, let me bubble and churn, spray and yearn! It whispers, softly in your ear. To follow our heart, our spirit and let this virile and vital passion well up, Bubble into our heart and spirit, into our lives, Is this not the act of living? To not just exist, to live! Life becomes a dance, a play, a symphony, Love fills the air, fragrances explode with texture, Sights and sounds, tasted before, now tasted with a new, refreshed sense! Let go of stagnation. Begone, you cry! Let go of repression. Begone, you cry! Let go of apathy. Begone, you cry! Taste the well of life within your heart, you will want for nothing else, its sweet waters soothing your beaten, tender heart, bringing vitality and passion where there was only stagnation. Bringing with it the gift of life. A life lived with passion. With love. With hope. With bliss.

Interesting....Then what most people strive for is Yu-Wei....Action springing forth from conscious intention. Wu-Wei...can you truly be in Wu-Wei/ embody it, if you do not yet have a root in your original nature? Hm.....Why do they speak about Wu-Wei as the goal and not Yu-Wei? Are there any Wu-Wei threads on here? Im pretty sure there used to be yet I cant find em now. HAH! Strange. Peace

Hahaha. The answer that gives no definite answer......How very..Taoist? I know what you mean, though. Thru experience we learn how to refine our awareness of things....

Mmm....Longest journey, single step. Hmm...that is another aspect to it. I know I can get so focused on the big, I do not see the small victories. See both. Experience both, eh. Tis a wonderful way. How do we know which is a small thing and which is large? Especially if we think the small thing is large or the large small? Ok, good. Compassion is a big one. I look forward to delving into that! Peace

Oh, wow. Thank you, MH! That helps allot... I can see now how that section is priming for Wu-Wei.... I had not thought of that before. Hehe, you didnt add to my confusion, you helped clarify it! Which will eventually create new confusion. hah. Interesting... Is the Wu in Wu-Wei, the same Wu as in Wu and Yu? If so, is there a Yu- Wei? Hmm....Im going to have to contemplate the Wu-Wei thread in that section.hehe. Peace

hehe, it seems to be written as parables/ stories...even though the lines themselves sometimes seem to contain deeper wisdom, the stories themselves are very different in how they are put together then the TTC.... Who knows! The ZZ might have meant some parts to be like TTC...others not so much. Maybe its layered. A story within a story. hahah. Peace

Each expression of the whole has the potential of the whole within. Maybe such things are absolute rules. Maybe they are not. If we have not experienced what we are, in our innermost, then we do not truly know. or do we? Why do limitations, in whatever form exist? To create experience? To create individuality? Things to ponder. Hehe. fun times, fun times. On the story...I dunno man...Maybe the kid should have pumped some elephant iron...get those trunk muscles up. Of course, there are other options as to what could have happened. The elephant stops. The elephant does not stop and stomps the kid whos body then dies. The elephant turns to the left or right. The story is nice for expressing the perceived limitations and rules upon living beings.... Peace.

Thinking on it and seeing what the translator wrote, I can see how they are talking about perspectives and levels. How to not judge someone just because you are different from them. We each have our own nature. Thats what makes life, life. They may even be saying, hey dummy! You think you are great? Well, what about this? Something along those lines. theres a trend in humanity to take a small achievement and make it grand, not realizing there is something larger/ grander still ahead. Then, they never get to the grand place because they are stuck thinking they are at the grandest. Some thoughts. Peace Edit- I want to add, that compassion also helps. Instead of judging the Peng/ quail for being who they are, could show compassion and accept them for what they are, as they are.

There was Master Lieh (Lieh Tzu), who rode on the wind and pursued his way with an admirable indifference (to all external things), returning, however, after fifteen days, (to his place). In regard to the things that (are supposed to) contribute to happiness, he was free from all endeavours to obtain them; but though he had not to walk, there was still something for which he had to wait. But suppose one who mounts on (the ether of) heaven and earth in its normal operation, and drives along the six elemental energies of the changing (seasons), thus enjoying himself in the illimitable, – what has he to wait for'? Therefore it is said, 'The Perfect man has no (thought of) self; the Spirit-like man, none of merit; the Sagely-minded man, none of fame.' This part pokes my curiosity. Well, the whole part does but this in particular. The rest of this section flows until here. Now they are talking about indifference, riding wind, happiness without effort... and waiting...What is this talk of waiting? Waiting for/ on what? Life? hmm.... The rest of it, I feel has already been explained. I dunno what this part is about, yet.... Peace.

There is, I feel, the paradox. We are all unique expressions of the whole, yet we are still of the whole. So we are not separate, yet we are. We are individuals, yet we are not. Fun. Peace.

There are, in my experience, different "layers", though. There is a common, superficial opening of the MCO that does not completely open the Three Gates. Plus, how do we differentiate between our minds and Qi? Meaning, we can visualize it and then a feeling manifests....did we truly open it? Its already open to a certain extent, it would have to be. Did we truly open the Three Gates and transform the current way it operates? What effects have happened? Most important question, IMHO, has the practice transformed/ changed the way I experience life? Some things to ponder. Peace.

I agree. "god" is a name with many, many meanings attatched to the core concept that add complexity and misunderstanding. If this "god" was anything, it would be everything. All encompassing. Its interesting that the most common idea of "god" is a reflection of our parents. The wrathful, judgemental "god"! The loving, compassionate "godess" Much easier to understand if you make "god" a person for many. Which seems to create many misconceptions. Dieties could be manifestations of the "one" yet not the whole "one". Peace