Jadespear

Who cares if Jesus was real or not? The most startling fact and stupidity of Christianity is not the existence of a man, but the vicarious atonement that the belief system system built around him entails. So dumb.

I have quarreled with the law of karma and reincarnation as well. Karma from what I have been able to deduce is just action and intention. There is no mystical cosmic police force setting things right or wrong , we do that by ourselves. However that does not mean that mostly good things happen to good people or that mostly bad things happen to bad people... Because good/bad are relative to one another. Reincarnation always baffles me... If reincarnation exists than when was my first life? When was my second? I think it's imperative to realize that these concepts are from ancient people who also worshipped the wind, cows, and other randomness... Not to say they're false as they can't be proven or disproven without dying or entering the afterlife. Some of Robert Monroe's books offer some insight into reincarnation.

Krishnamurti is very deep. He used his own terminology to discuss his own truth. In this case, I believe all he is really saying is that "observations" or any type of mental activity apart from what he also describes as "choiceless awareness"... or "pure awareness, exist within the same mental space as that which is "observed". The name, meaning, and identity of that which you observe resonates within your field of observation... and only in that field. In other words, what you see is what you get, and Krishnamurti takes it a step deeper and says, what you see, what you label, what you observe is also what you are. Because as Krishnamurti believed, there is no actual "you" or "me" at all, these are human concepts engrained in the background of our minds that have been indoctrinated throughout centuries of thought and reinforcement. The observer is the observed... meaning one is what one observes as long as one follows that continuum of thought. Krishnamurti set forth early in his life to "set man free". All of his thoughts and observances on the human mind sort of intermingle with one another and are mostly aimed at being fiercely independent and totally compassionate outside of the realm of thought, outside of the mind, to the end of being "creative" individuals. It's strange, but at times I have felt this feeling of being observed by the entire universe outside of myself...like when I deeply still and am simply paying attention, am simply aware.... it feels like the whole of creation is staring at me. Maybe K, was correct.

Interesting. What of the beauty of the painting...? Even though it may be full of holes, it could still be beautiful...

Right, I know. I get it. I was just saying...thats the only example I've ever seen albeit, in a movie, of what was being discussed. I don't have very many "spiritual" friends...or "spiritual" family members, my points of reference are my own experiences and my own gained knowledge. It seems that one could enter into Mantak Chia entire "Universal Tao" system if they were so inclined to become such an immortal. I dunno...I've not looked to hard into it. It may be total junk.

Yeah, it's a forum. Not a trial.

This all reminds me so much of Star Wars...when Yoda passes into the force... he does not even attempt to be an immortal, as it is not "the way of the force." He lives a long time, teaches many, and leaves physical existence. It seems to me, that all things anywhere conceivable us, animals, clouds, skies, earth, heaven, the beyond, different dimensions...they are all aspects of varying degrees of density of energy, of chi. Possibly continuously being and becoming through the dynamic effects of yin and yang from the microcosmic level to the beyond known universe level, beyond what anyone anywhere in the farthest reaches of all realms has or ever will see. Pure conjecture of course...but how far can you take the idea? And after we realize all that is to be known, all that is to learned, all that can be done, even after we satisfy every single desire, what then? I have seen many speckles or dots of light from time to time, when I am simply at peace with myself and am still. My mind isn't churning, it is simply aware. The colors I see often are blue, red, white/gold, and green.... not sure what this means from a scientific/wavelength point of view compared with a superstitious unproven theory point of view.... but the more I learn and discover, the more I see that both prove one another to be sides of the same truth, regardless of what it is. My heart is full of curiosity and my mind loves to be able to explain things. They both are united in the same quest. Thoughts?

Yeah lets not forget the inquisition.... who is evil again? Non-believers, or Sadistic torturers..a.k.a "The entire Catholic church"...who continue to employ child molesters and known criminals in the name of "forgiveness". So dumb.

Thats a nice theological nonsensical take on things. I guess anyone who buys into Christian theology has to use it's own theology to prove it to themselves .... belief and metaphor to express and explain said created belief and metaphor. Unending nonsense it seems. Just too much misinformation.

You fools. Words are only symbols invented to convey concepts. Look to the natural world to see any sort of sacredness. Separating "what is" sacred from "what is not", is dumb, as it doesnt matter. All we have to go with, is "what is and what isn't." Judgement on either side is a conditioned point of view based on your entire life experience and a function of your memory.

Where does this idea of a sovereign anything come from? Rather than asking what others believe, would it not make more sense to understand the basis of such a belief in the first place? The idea of "sovereign" obviously comes from cultures from antiquity who ruled, governed, and maintained their civilizations through force. The concept of "sovereignty" is directly tied to omnipotence, of being all powerful and able to force anything to do anything. Is there any evidence that not only a force such as this exists, but that it also comes from a sentient being? The idea of "God" as such as this is Western/Islamic conceptual creation. In truth, are we not all "sovereign" unto ourselves? In absolute power over ourselves, in absolute control over ourselves? The idea expressed and extended outwardly, power over anything outside of ourselves comes from the cultures that created it, that were attempting to control and dominate other people, things, concepts, and ideas to their own ends....mostly for their own survival, inspired greatly by fear, greed, and egotistical pride. "Truth is not contingent upon belief."

Or Perhaps, he was speaking total nonsense in a metaphorical way. He has done so in other places of the bible. Or perhaps, in this context Jesus is referring to fire in terms of light...light that dispels away the darkness of ignorance and stupidity. "And, see"... meaning "Look, I am still here." Jesus is saying that he will not run away from his enemies, he will stand and defend his teachings until they spread...or until "it blazes". After all when a flame blazes, it spreads. So we could re-translate in a more concrete way like this: "I have brought wisdom and teachings to the world, and look, I am still here and will be until my teachings spread." I think it's important to also note, that Jesus did not write any of his teachings down, he only spoke them as a wandering sage basically. Other people who followed him wrote them down...as the story goes. And the entire Christian religion was made after Jesus died...not during his time on earth. It was made by other people who followed Jesus around and his "12" apostles. So long as people debate about Jesus, we are in essence still acknowledging his existence, his teachings... therefore his spirit is still here, his thoughts are still influencing the world.

It is a strange paradox to me ..... to attempt to see the tao as the way of nature while also attempting to overcome it. How does breathing in a certain way make one physically immortal? ... for we are all "spiritually immortal".... there is no mention in the tao te ching that I have read of any sort of physical immortality. Biologically, I see multiple forms of life changing at the cellular level to transform at the physical level over the course of millions of years..... even if you live for 1,000 + years "you" as far as I can see cannot live forever in the same physical state.... I think it is important to see and realize that taoist masters that some of us cite as references lived in a time of primordial existential preference... the standard lifetime of someone before the year 1800 was less than 30 years simply because of the poor scientific intelligence that we know possess, healthcare was at a very limited understanding. I'm not saying "natural" ways of living and healing ourselves and one another work or could even possibly enact a sort of physical immortality. But what I am saying is what is the point? Why would someone want to live forever? As far as I can tell, taoist teachings, point specifically to living "long, healthy, happy, and wise"... a physical immortality is not included, nor should be.... as "the way" or the "tao" is one of eternal change and transformation on all levels... Please feel free to rebuttle or dispute... I'm working with my own logic and limited teachings from age old sages...I believe anything is possible... the logic of physical immortality makes sense...as the physical plane exists before we can remember and probably will continue after we can see...just as we are physical. BUT, show me some evidence man....against the probabilities and majority. We of course don't need them to "believe", but it would help direct us to a more thorough understanding of ourselves.

@ Da Bomb Please refer to this brief website as a reference. And all the Vedas that the hindu religion is based on. http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm Also, one thing to remember with the historical point of view of things...its not possible to disprove that someone was somewhere 2,000 years after the fact. Don't you find it odd that there is very little to no record of what Jesus was doing in between the ages of 13-30? I sure do. Seriously man, check out the hindu theories and you'll see many parallels to them in many things Jesus was quoted as saying...especially in the gospel of Thomas. The 5 cosmic elements is the most obvious parallel, and the ability to conquer the "all".

I'm going to recommend reading as much Krishnamurti as you can. Specifically, " the first and last freedom." Krishnamurti's writing and perception of himself and the world are very profound. He is a big anti-guru. Also, when thinking about "spirituality" I believe it is imperative to be able to identify and connect the use, value, and meaning of created ideas against the real and actual truth of existence...all any book will give you is a way to understand something that someone has theorized. What we call "spiritual" now is mostly the effect of years of indoctrination within human society. I think what everyone is searching for is "actuality" or "reality"....for infinite reasons. Books, people, systems can all show you things and explain them in their own way, but you will only understand it in your own way. "Truth is a path less land." - Krishnamurti.

I am still practicing step 2 exercises. I am wondering what sensations or experiences anyone has had with the "whole body" breathing exercises. It seems that the hardest part for me on this right now is to not visualize anything as Bardon suggests, but rather suck in energy to my center. Not sure if this is the same cause-effect process that his system recommends but nevertheless I feel sensations. Multiple parts of my body feel different sensations some at the same time, some one after the other. Any thoughts?

Dudes, There are a few points I think that historically are being overlooked here. First and foremost that Jesus was known as an Eastern mystic....he spent his 40 days and 40 nights in India supposively...and continued to travel in the East before he started his ministry in his 30's..... Perhaps this is the most peculiar part of Christianity, it has always been to me.... we hear of Jesus being born and then lots of time passes until he is a mature adult. What exactly was he doing that whole time? First, the phrase "son of man" or "son of God" when observed in the time of it's use reveals a much plainer definition. People back then would say "son" in place of "servant." So Jesus was just saying he was the servant of man and God, the helper of humankind and it's creator. That makes sense. Secondly, in the gospel of Thomas, Jesus also refers to the 5 trees of knowledge. I find this fascinating as the number 5 is also included in very old hindu theories of existence, meaning the 5 absolute cosmic elements of fire, water, air, earth, and the akasha. This correlation is perhaps the most significant because many hindi yogis and hindu deities have absolute power- just as Jesus displayed in the many miracles he performed. There is Hanuman, Ganesh, the man Vallalar, and many more. Even in the gospel of Thomas he mentions that "whosoever has mastered the 5 trees, will conquer the All." I think this is quite literal, the All being everything in creation, the entire universe...you, your friends, the sky, the birds, the seas. Since time immemorial people have been rumored to have superpowers...The All being the Universal Mind. The Mind of everything. Buddha has been mentioned as someone of this renkown, taoist immortals also... Thirdly, in The gospel of Thomas, Jesus seems to continually use the taoist concept of yin and yang to explain things. And last of all, from the taoist point of view, Jesus can be considered a transformed immortal, because he did reappear in physical form after he physically died. Jesus is perhaps the most popular and common to the Western world, he said many things about life that are worthwhile to pay attention to. It's amazing to me that people can actually buy into Christianity exclusively as it is presented to them, thankfully we here can speak amongst ourselves. Something else that is shared between The Holy Bible book of revelations, and the Hindu vedic prediction is that of a man returning to earth on a white horse thwarting the world of evil. I find this fascinating. Hindu's regard Lord Vishnu as the preserver of righteousness who will return as "Kilka" a man riding a white horse destroying evil and preserving our Earth. The book of revelations has the same story.... awfully strange. All the powers arise out of the absolute....as the hindus say. They arise out of the God that resides within you. Is God immortal, eternal, and all powerful....? If he/she it is and there is a piece of that in you, then yes I think you would be astonished when you realize how much you can actually do. But let's not forget, in the words of Lao Tse, "Occult abilities are just flowers of the Tao, and the beginning of all foolishness."

"There are no miracles." - - Spock. The Universe operates a certain way and so do you. The term we use"supernatural" I think has come from the very fact that people in modern society pay so little attention to the actual natural world... the earth is like a giant joke and trash pile to them.......when it is really a spiritual vessel.. per the sayings of Lao Tzu, "No matter how much you manipulate the world, you can never grasp it. The world is a spiritual vessel." Or so in the words of Yoda, " You must unlearn what you have learned." Everything can be known, everything can be explained. What is the meaning of the word "miracle" except something that happens that defies the beliefs you hold? The truth is miraculous, the falsehoods are not. Superpower is faith in yourself, faith in each other and love and compassion for all living things...without that all occult abilities once mastered serve no real purpose. They are simply powers to use just like the power of patience, the power of thought, and the power of love. Illuminating as they are to oneself, I don't see how they really alter or change the human condition...the simple struggle of life. They just make it more entertaining, which is why they are " the beginning of all foolishness."

"Occult abilities are just flowers of the tao, and the beginning of all foolishness." -- Lao Tzu.

Hello again friends. Ive been reading through some Mantak Chia books and the Initiation Into Hermetics book by Franz Bardon. I am asking myself what Mantak Chia means by making an energy body, while Franz Bardon and myself believe we already have one? Are the two concepts different in any of your understanding? Does Chia aim to meld the energy or astral body that we all have into a new form? Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks guys.

"As we live, we also die. The balance you keep is who you really are and where you are going."

What is the spiritual path? That's the real question. The word philosopher comes from ancient greek... meaning "one who loves wisdom." From what I take to mean, "one who loves to understand." So the spiritual path is not separate from the other paths most of us have no choice following... like working for a living, like having sex, like creating something we love. Only a philosopher attempts to understand them and make a general statement about the truth inherent in all of them, as his version of what is true.....which is why all philosophers mostly do is argue with one another using their logic and reason.... and then you have "spiritual scientists" people who discover phenomenon and label them...like taoists scientists living in China calling some sort of energy "chi" ...Life itself is the spiritual path. We are all behooved to understand ourselves, our world, each other, and all the mysteries of the universe. And we have figured out many of them already.

Intent + Focus = Magic. Intent + Focus + Visualization = Space Magic. Stillness + Passion = Awesome Magic. Stillness + Intent + Passion + Focus + Freedom = Powerful Magic. Quietness + Movement = The Tao

"Do or do not, there is no try." Yoda

Really if you reflect long enough on the whole tarot system...I think you would realize that drawing certain cards to tell you about yourself is a little ridiculous...which I think is why Bardon simply used the Mage card to symbolize the path of the mage....not the path of your personality. The societal persona is entirely self created by means of cause and effect relations that continue throughout our lifetime...you were born with a nature that created its personality most closely attune with its nature...hence you say certain things in a certain way and act a certain way in certain scenarios and thus form habits that others see and they associate all of that as your personality, and so do you as yourself. I think the importance of that step in IIH is to be continually working towards being as positive as possible in regards to your own development throughout the steps...so you can reach Level 10 and be a Master Mage and go on missions for "Divine Providence" Hence, if you don't know what about yourself is holding you back---- you make soul mirror after reflecting upon your obstacle. And how can decks of cards that have been created in multiple different manners be true at all in revealing anything to anyone about themselves?....Anyone can draw pictures in a symbolic way of their life experiences and form them into a deck of cards...... Im just curious as to why people are into it, Im not trying to be condescending or anything.