Jadespear

...those are the greek roots of the word. The concept of "god" has not been only limited to greek culture, it has been spread throughout the world in different languages. The hindus call it "the absolute", the taoists call it "the tao", the Islams call it "Allah", magicians call it "the divine" What they all have in common is not the term used to decribe it but the general nature of it - itself. Why is this so hard to understand? If you can't read through the lines by doing intellectual inquiry into philosophy, perhaps you're not ready to understand these things. They all ascribe that it is boundless, formless, and everywhere - because it is. It is the cause of existence - permanent and unchanging, and manages existence. The taoists say it in a cool way ' "The great tao is hidden deeply in all things". it's not observable through modern physical science, a person has to reach it themself through spiritual practice. Which is what all the eastern traditions espouse.

Hi There, I have experienced Siddhis through shifts and states of being as extensions of consciousness. Notable experiences include phenomenon associated to the following: Telepathy Spontaneous materialization Matter re-shaping (changing one thing into another) Prophecy Far reach of thought Energy manipulation of myself and electrical signals in the outside world. Weather magic. ...I constantly live in a state where what I think about generally has a genuine high probability of manifesting itself into my life. If I think about something or someone in an emotional way (no matter what it is) - it generally comes to me or happens to occur. Not all the time, but a lot of the time.

IF Y'all want to get down into it, why is it so hard? The word "divine" means cause. The causal principle. The place/thing/space that all other formed things come from to have an existence. The source of creation is all around us all the time. The tao is beyond time and space and is undiscriminating in its deepest sense - it is impersonal in the sense that it is not a "person" but it is personal in the sense that it has traits or thing by which one can know and understand it. Existence itself is ultimately it - as all life simply procreates itself moment by moment in the temporal (finite_ world through the means and mechanisms of determined law to bring about infinite forms into existence. God is the source of reality behind reality, dee within reality. Everyone and everything is always connected to it beyond their choice.

Nicely put... and in the rational view, chaos and disorder as described above are entirely wrong. Biological human men are born and do not contain biological organs and biology to have periods or become impregnated. The facts remain. Men are men and women are women as defined by their biology. Chaos and disorder are words to describe perceptions of life, not actual life itself. No surgery or hormonal therapy will ever fully convert a man into a woman or vice versa. People who try and distort the actual true meaning of words and facts of life have been around ever since we have existed. They are seen as heretics because they are. They hold no objective purpose besides attempting to prove themselves against what is already real, an ignorant and selfish attitude and attempt that history has shown usually loses against the actual truth that wise people embrace, know, extoll, and promote to the rest of the world. The voices of such misguided and sick people should never be taken seriously, as all they are are cries for attention and self validation from fools who mistakenly believe their own viewpoint defines existence itself. ...in case you missed it - I'm really tired of these kind of people. All they do is pollute the world with confusion and lies. Cast aside natural order? For what? So they can act all clever and run around in mental circles attempting to prove their nonsense is what. Pretty pathetic. Get a life, don't be an atheist.

Anyone who believes in chaos and disorder as the answer to what existence is, are largely mistaken. It's really simple to see why they are wrong...that's why science is a great tool to use in the pursuit of the truth. Certain things can only occur under the right circumstances, just as certain things cannot occur under the certain circumstances. Simple things like childbirth, etc. the act of biological life being created must adhere to certain circumstances or (laws), there is no alternative. I don't believe your description of "agnostic" is true. It ha nothing to do with chaos or order. An Agnostic is someone who posits the existence of a higher power but does not subscribe to any dogmatic definition of it. They simply believe in "something" greater than themselves without forming religious ideas about it, or ideas of any kind about it. They don't really hold a belief as much as they do simply hold an observation. Hence why the term "agnostic" is also used in secular terms to describe someone who is "indifferent".

I don't think using the words "illusion" or "veil" are good at all - because they aren't good ways of describing what you are referring to. Just because there is a deeper and more universal aspect to things - that doesn't render everything that we can see and experience as being utterly "not real" or an "illusion" hiding the deeper reality... both are real, there is no illusion as it were. All that talk and nonsense of the world and life being an illusion is misleading when not understood in the full and proper context. The actual description from eastern traditions is "deceptive appearance" - which is used to describe the temporal aspect of all phenomena comparatively against the absolute and eternal aspect underlying them. The only illusions there are are what people make up themselves about everything. None of us can change the laws of reality, none of us actually create anything by ourselves...all thought and all ideas come from the source of all existence and reaches us according to our own level of maturity. The only illusion is that people don't see that, they see something else...

And one more thing: The Yin Yang: If you can picture it 3 dimensionally it's easier - imagine that the dots are like rods or cylinders that extend backward and forward. The white dot is the positive pole, the yang - electricity, heat expansion, etc. The black dot is the negative pole - the yin. they exist in complete and total balance and harmony to one another and create all the changes everywhere in the entire universe - its a symbol of the universal principle of the "electromagnetic fluid". The two forces that create, sustain, and guide all life everywhere. Electricity must be contained by magnetism because if it is not - it has no ability to remain stable, same thing for magnetism. It represents the total balance of all of the forces of nature at their essential relationship to one another.

Hey guys - it's actually way more simple than I thought... I think? 🤔 Yin Yang - is duality; of being and non-being. Things come into existence from a state of non-being - Black swirl with white dot. Things go out of existence into non-being; white swirl with black dot. Hence: the way of nature described in complete and total simplicity. Te two are separated by a swirl and are completely distinct from one another because they literally are non - being and being. The way of all changes. It is also the nature of reality: subject and object from perception: thing comes into existence only if they are perceived, without perception - they don't exist. - they return back to nowhere - to non-being (The Uncreated - state of boundless, formless, and undiscriminating potential) : The Tao. Quantum mechanics has proven this to be true: the true nature of all phenomena is based on duality - The forms we see are simply in a refined state of being based on ourselves perceiving ourselves... hence the many fables of taoists transforming into nothingness. The space that we inhabit as ourselves is simply that - space. Space able to be formed, form, or returned back to formlessness. Particle to waves; waves to particles... the yin yang symbol. All of physical reality in the natural world is simply light confined by darkness - truth veiled by illusion - yang hidden by yin. For without darkness, light could not shine. Without light no appearances could manifest anywhere. All of the physical world is simply a broadcast of light onto darkness. We appear to be here, things appear to be there, and we are for the most part... but the duality of the real nature of existence was known by the ancients. When you look at something you define it by your intention, by your perception - you cast light onto a wave, which orders it into particles that makes appearances ( the entire phenomenal world). And since we are all part of the one great infinite light - we are all watched; we are all perceived by it - hence we have form and function. For we live within the heart and mind of the Great Tao itself, we live in a world of deceptive appearances (Maya) in the sense that what we see is actually permanent and real, but nothing else that is physical, it is all an appearance only. By the virtues endowed to us by our creator we possess the same ability to assimilate matter with our minds, and our souls are the engine that drive.

....I have something to add. Ancient Chinese people worshipped The Almighty Creator. And they created a symbol of the relation of themselves to it by drafting the yin yang. The true meaning of the yin yang symbol: Yang - The Light - The Infinite God. Yin - The Dark - the ignorance that surrounds us which separates us from a true cognition or relationship to God - the force of darkness that veils the light. Everything that shrouds the light of oneself. The swirl line that separates the two - the ineffable gulf between man and God The black dot in the yang - the ear of God that hears and empathizes with man - the open line of communication that represents that God will listen to us. The white dot - the light of God present in man that guides him in the right direction using his spiritual conscience which is inspired by the Light of God. The symbol has nothing to do with gender or equality of forces. It represents the relationship of man to his creator. It can be seen in a way to represent the relationship between light and dark in how they both are intertwined as a whole, but not one of equality.

...the concept of god basically boils down to two separate things across human history. 1. An un-personified concept, and 2. A personified concept. Eastern religions attune more to the unpersonified concept because thats just how they are... they see things from a more natural view and nature itself is mostly impersonal. The personified concepts kind of arose from Western societies, but they also exist in other traditions. I myself, have found a couple things to be strange and true throughout much study and meditation. 1. There is an unmanifest light behind existence that can be seen through meditative states of deep samadhi. I have seen this. The various world religions call this part of reality, the causal principle, the purusha, the unmoved mover etc. If you saw it you would probably ascribe the word "God" to it, as it is luminous for as far as you can tell and it is everywhere... 2. There is also an unmanifest light within myself... I have seen that too. It appears to be exactly like the transcendent reality behind the normal existence seen and experienced by our senses. 3. The hermetic tradition acknowledges a concept of God that relates to manifest existence as a way for people to cognize a larger reality around them... which relates to the 5 absolute cosmic elements that are also mentioned and referred to in nearly all eastern and shamanic religions (space, fire, air, water, and earth) referred to in (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Dzogchen, etc.). This concept kind of assists me in relating the created world back to something that makes sense as in: 1. Space element (Akasha) The causal principle - the source of all existence through which imagination impresses ideas which are then made into mental, astral, and eventually physical reality through the actions of the other 4 elements - fire, air, water, and earth. 2. Fire element - in terms of divine; this element is regarded as being the energy faculty of everything in existence - so the entire principle of things that are energy everywhere in the universe. (Omnipotence). 3. Air element - all the balancing that exists between energy and form (Equalizer / Balancer / Universal Lawfulness) 4. Water element - All of the information and knowledge that exists (Omniscience) 5. Earth element - The physical state of all the previous 3 forces into physical form or an existence (Omnipresence). ...So what I can honestly tell is that, there is a force out there that is beyond us, however its quality and potential is also a part of us - so we are literally living within it all the time. The fact that never escapes us is to understand that relationship.... thats what all religious thought is oriented towards - explaining the relationship and connection of the unseen world to the seen world - the known to the unknown. In the hindu tradition, the relationship is profoundly and emphatically reported - the true nature of the unmanifest light that is called "the absolute" or "God" is the same as the true nature of our immortal spirit. Which is why, they guide you to know and understand yourself first.

.... ahem - just because someone hasn't heard of something doesn't change the fact that it exists. Qi is a word to describe something that is in everyone, duh. Wake up.

...A very good question... Energy is like anything else, when it comes to acquiring something...what do you do with it? Many schools of thought emphasize cycling energy for improved health purposes. The nature of qi, is not like some mysterious thing - its life-force, so it's meant to be used to create, sustain, and promote life in a universal way. I seem to remember that Mantak Chia had a gradual system where you learn to basically excel in harmonizing yourself with the universal chi sources step by step, smaller to larger, up until high levels (published publicly) at least.

...not sure as to the scholastic answer on the taoist usage of the term... however having experienced an aspect of it, I believe it is the same universal (shared or common) Self. The one aspect of life that is common to all living things...their spirit/consciousness/essence etc. ...since taoist sages were more poetic and allegorical than literal and analytical... I don't know how they would describe it. It's the literal light of consciousness itself... I suspect that through enough meditation one would encounter this aspect of themself. It's irreducible because it simply cannot be taken away from in parts, if it were to reduce in size it would be just smaller but the same quality. Its quality is also immutable, as in it cannot be turned off... it is always there, it is the part of you that is defined as "life" itself. Without it, you wouldn't exist. Mutability is used to refer to its sonic (sound) aspect... it is something you can hear in introspection that is like an eternal energy bulb. However quiet anyone or anything is... they are all still alive and generate sonic frequency. You can throw shades over lights, but that doesn't make the light stop from being there... its irreducible as in full entirely of it's own quality - complete, it is not something made by a combination of other things, immutable - always existent unable to be stopped/denied. You can't stop yourself from existing...no matter how hard we try ; - )

@ Steve - Yes, you are correct in the recognition that the term "Self" is a translation used in many Hindu texts... It is also referred to in Taoist texts as that word and also other ones to describe one's true irreducible and immutable nature.

Mithras speaks in riddles he doesn't even understand. Minds betray the hearts of black lungs As do opaque skies reveal the shades of mist Wherever, whenever, and to whom do the clouds aspire to enchant and abrupt us?

I challenge this way of thinking. Some people may be largely on auto pilot, but others are not. Through many periods of introspection and reflection I have glanced at what I believe I truly am. People are essentially conduits for and a means of expression of ideas that are inspired by intuition which comes from the great tao itself. So there is in fact - YES - a self directing it all, it's just not the one most people consider, one's spirit is not one's mind. Empty yourself of everything.Let the mind rest at peace.The ten thousand things rise and fall while the Self watches their return.They grow and flourish and then return to the source.Returning to the source is stillness, which is the way of nature.The way of nature is unchanging.Knowing constancy is insight.Not knowing constancy leads to disaster.Knowing constancy, the mind is open.With an open mind, you will be openhearted.Being openhearted, you will act royally.Being royal, you will attain the divine.Being divine, you will be at one with the Tao.Being at one with the Tao is eternal.And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away

I'd begin by training all 3 parts of yourself... the mind, the spirit, and the body. Simply begin to eat a taoist way...balance yin and yang with the 5 elements Cleanse the mind to purify the spirit by embracing nothingness and space Meditate to focus on beginning the microcosmic orbit meditation to enhance and amplify qi flow for optimal health

...It is laughable? Why? What is achieving "the way"...

... yeah I don't need people pissing down my back and telling me its raining. It's easy to intuitively know where a person is coming from, especially having been there yourself. What do you care freeform? Why would you even respond like you did to this person? Obviously they don't care about anything besides being powerful... is that what you are like to?

Ahem.... can we please stop with the "let's understand" mindset. Some random person comes in here asking how to become powerful.... that's all that person has said. There has been no discussion on why, for what purpose, or even for what one hopes to learn. I hope anyone with a semblance of conscience has the decency to be honest with such a person, like I am. It's just like someone saying, "I want to be rich". With no discussion on the means to become rich and how to navigate that road. Impressionable young people are the easiest to control. Which is why they should learn and grow up as quick as they can. Everyone wants the power to direct their own lives. This person doesn't seem like they are inquiring about that...they seem to want power over other people, or the power to do something else to someone else or something that they currently do not possess. Such desires are child's play without a larger context.

How old are you? I bet you're like 13 years old. Too immature for anything from this forum. Best power you can acquire is knowledge of the world. That's learned by living in it and holding a prestigious job. Go be a doctor or a lawyer. Don't waste your time here.

Thank you Dwai. So, to refine your explanation... the terminology is confusing. Nirvana is void? Void as in what? The meaning of this word in these subjects eludes me... does it mean "open"? I think in a literal way, so to say something is void doesn't make much sense. And, does the equivalency of Samasra and Nirvana only hold true in how they relate to the reality of brahman? Obviously, something that has form cannot be defined as being formless... how does this make sense? If you'd like, I'd like to ask you a more personal question in a separate message about the nature of a Jiva and the Self realization you talk about.

Too bad that you don't see everything as a "spiritual" thing. I think the great misconception everyone ever always has is thinking like that. That somehow, parts of life and existence are pointless compared to others. I don't see how there can be any classification of what is higher/lower or sideways about any of it. It's all part of life, therefore it's all important. Thats all I'm saying. Wonderous supernatural things included.

Once again Dwai - your response contains nice information, but you haven't responded to the first direct question. Can you? Knowing what one is, is only 1 piece of knowledge. That 1 piece does not contain within it every other piece of knowledge that could ever be learned. It's like your saying that the engine of a car contains all the knowledge of the car... which simply isn't true. The engine isn't the wheel or the axle, or the brake, or the spoke. Just because they are interconnected doesn't distinguish unilateral identical meaning between all parts. Furthermore - your making contradictory points with regards to your overall premise. Yoga is actually a dualism tradition, because you are asserting the fact that there is 1 thing that is absolute and true and real = the Self. Everything else in the phenomenal world is something else. The Self is eternally separate from the phenomena. That's a duality. The way the two interact is the motion of existence itself. Isn't this the concept of "purusha" and "Prakriti" that Patanjali references? The Purusha is the Self. The Siddhis are side effects when one approaches oneself in the way you describe. Just because they occur more or less at random and spontaneously through that approach doesn't render them useless... and it also doesn't render them as obsolete/pointless to understand or ever develop into something that can be controlled and used for good. I welcome any rebuttal you have to this... but don't see how you could ever argue successfully against reason and logic. Well, I'm not sidetracked. Thanks for the warning. Why are you so obsessed with peace and happiness? Don't you realize that life is not all about peace and happiness all the time? Your highest knowledge still does not make sense really. Saying knowing something is the highest thing by itself makes no sense. Thats like saying "I know how to make the best meal in the world". and then never making it for anyone ever. Wow, it's a great self comforting fact to think about as you walk around, but is of no use to anyone in a practical sense beyond conceptual and theoretical understanding. Thats why it's the beginning, not the end.

Um, how does your first statement make any sense whatsoever? What exactly are you referring to when you say self realization? It makes no sense, because of the entire historical record of humanity. No one has to achieve self realization to learn about anything else... if they did then the entire history of the world would not be what it is. But it is, what it is. Self realization isn't required to learn about other non-esoteric subjects. So once again, please continue... because I'd like to understand your point of view. And what is it higher compared to? What is beneath it? Self realization may be a very special piece of knowledge that we can all attain, but it's not necessary to attain it to know anything else. ...alleviating all the world's problems? Never said that was an objective. But, I'll go there with you... if you want to compare the usefulness of skills/abilities vs faith based religions and states of mind.... then look at the history of the world. Skills/abilities beat religion and states of mind every day. Peoples problems are their own responsibility to overcome or deal with - that is what I believe. Your own unique identity is only made unique by the things you have embraced in the past and what you need to overcome and embrace in the present.... without distinction and difference there would not be difference between anyone in a karmic sense. Seems that you just don't get the point on learning. Learning never ends... it's not possible to ever really assert in absolute truth that you do know everything, that you have attained something akin to the most highest thing or whatever, that you can basically answer every question someone has without inquiring into their inquiry, without communicating with people. Without endeavoring to learn what is going on. I mean I get what you're trying to say in a sense that eventually enough is enough and we all need to relax and be content with ourselves. But that too is temporary.... eventually you'll want to move along in some direction for some reason. And just because you believe fervently in what you do and many other people have before you - doesn't in any way render your belief as true or valid. Just look at the millions of Christians in the world...none of them really know much and are mostly all blinded by their own dogma/beliefs etc. Same is true for every religion.... I think you misunderstand the whole point I've been trying to make and you are mis-representing the subject matter and people who are interested in it. We aren't talking about "chasing" siddhis like they are play things to be misused... we are talking about seriously understanding them and their usefulness in light of the greater context of life itself. Siddhis, I seem to remember... really translate to "accomplishment". Accomplishment of what exactly? Accomplishment of concentration/meditation/focus/intent/imagination toward a direction. Almost as if they are a distinguished accomplishment of the fluctuating mind. Some of the minds greatest abilities made manifest. They are the divine right of every human being. Your highest truth of self realization is more like the yin side to the siddhi yang side. They can both compliment one another. Neither is ultimately or absolutely better than the other in every life circumstance. They both have a use.