Jadespear

@dwai - You still haven't disproven the validity of pursuing understanding siddhis. All you've said is that your highest knowledge is the highest knowledge and haven't proven why either... I'd love to hear it. Please enlighten us. Parlor tricks? I think thats a very poor way to describe someone who can heal another through a process of energy exchange, or someone who could materialize food for the hungry, or someone who could teleport to save you from disaster. I really doubt that you've experienced really anything of what you say. Haha, do I go chasing/craving things? No. I pursue things. It's a different level of quality than chasing/craving as you seem to describe. And, yes I do enjoy learning as much as I can. So I do it a lot. And, yes I will gladly keep on believing in what I like about the "escape" reality "freedom" nonsense that people like to talk about. Until someone can articulate a well reasoned position to the contrary. Can you? @dwai

Guy 1 - "Hey! Guess what guys I finally learned the highest knowledge...." Guy 2 - "Oh really, thats nice. Did you bring anything for dinner?" Guy 1 - "No, we don't need to eat because we have the highest knowledge..." Guy 2 -" What are you talking about?...your knowledge is useless and I'm hungry, don't you know where to get food from?" Guy 1 - "Sorry, no I don't know where to get food from." Guy 2 - "Great, I'm so glad you found your great revelation. Now go figure out how we're goin to eat tonight." Guy 1 - "Where?" Guy 2 - "Seriously?" Hahahahahaha.

Hahaha! I wish your highest knowledge was true. But it's totally not. Highest compared to what that is lower? No more questions? Really, you and I are one part of existence... just because we can see our true nature, doesn't mean it necessarily applies to everything else in existence. There is a lot more to everything than just us. No more questions...? Bah. More like, you're satisfied with this and are no longer curious to explore and discover stuff. Like I said in the beginning, knowledge of the self is the beginning of everything else - not the end. How does it function? To how far can one influence things? How much does someone get influenced, etc You'll never know if you just sit there appeased by your own self. I don't care if Patanjali said so or if other people did. I don't blindly follow anyone or what they say. Neither should you. Just because people discover and proliferate some knowledge about something, doesn't necessarily mean it is everything that could ever be understood about that thing itself and also it doesn't negate the existence of things that they haven't discovered or simply choose not to discuss. Sorry but, I'm seeing things in a larger context than you are. You're just talking about nonsensical ways of defining things and semantics. It's not your fault really, because you're just repeating things you've heard and read which were written and spoken by people just as immature in knowledge of these subjects. What we are essentially talking about is the difference between people who enjoy taking an active part in life through "supernatural" means - because there is no reason not to, and people like you who see no reason why to do so at all. Your position is defenseless in certain respects, if you actually believe its better when taken into real world application. You really think that someone who is just at peace with themselves could help someone afflicted by disease?, or can someone who can diagnose elemental causes of said disease and alleviate them through esoteric means help them? See the difference? Consequences as in effects. As in there is a cause and effect chain always in force. If you do nothing, you get nothing. If you do something, you get something. Applies to everything. Sometimes doing nothing is needed, sometimes not. Thats the whole point of the middle direction. Balancing both. You're referring more to a singular way, which is akin to the way of saintliness. Saints devote themselves to one or very few aspects of spirituality. Sages do not. Sages learn everything that they can and apply it to better themselves and whatever they so choose. Sages follow the middle direction. Saints do not. On the whole "freedom" concept - again its bullshit. It's a stupid way of describing something that doesn't exist. The actual meaning of that concept throughout oriental religions was meant to be free from ignorance. Nothing more. Obviously, the only thing that frees one from ignorance is knowledge. Which is why people DESIRED to LEARN.

Do tell Dwai - what is the highest knowledge? Hahaha, I desire to know. Before you even begin to write it, why is it the highest? And you still can't refute the fact that people who are able to help others in one way are just as important/valid as those who can help in another different way. My metaphorical example is just an illustration of that. So any statements like "you don't need to do that" or "Sindhis aren't important" etc etc etc are not entirely truthful or correct. You're just expressing your opinion, not an objective truth. And yet again - you're still not defining this "unattached" state of being completely, and you're using words that don't express your point well enough. What you are describing is the difference between defining/experiencing one's present and ongoing sense of satisfaction based on the results that they hope or want to achieve or attain versus being someone who has some semblance of what they want but their sense of satisfaction or fulfillment as they live their life is not entirely based on achieving that. Which is once again - nothing more than establishing and maintaining one's peace of mind based on nothing outside of themselves, (without allowing circumstances to shape and influence their sense of happiness or joy or whatever). Sure, it'd be great to be content forever, but no one really can do that if they want to exist here in the physical world. Pretty sure that state of mind and being is reserved for prolonged periods of time people somewhere else in the universe. Let's forego the mental gymnastics please. It's not possible to exist without acting on desire. Living as this "unattached" person is nothing more than the eventual realization of that desire. Sure the desire may subside once you reach the state of being like that, but you had to do something to get there. I think you're confused and stuck in your own philosophy. Walking around as an "unattached" free person.... is not a person who is free at all, it's the total opposite. You're drunk on the ecstasy of being at peace with yourself. Unable to relate to others in a meaningful way. You're the most "un-free" of anyone. Addicted to peace and happiness. Hahahahaha. Furthermore, in my opinion there is no real "freedom" ever. Not in a literal defined way. We will always be subject to something. Yes, we have the freedom to choose how we act, and think, etc etc but thats all done within the context of life that we really can't entirely escape from. Freedom defined as "without consequences" I cannot fathom. And P.S. - The actual correct translation of the first noble truth is this - "The wheel of life doesn't sit correctly on its hinge" .... which basically just means that the events of life are random and unpredictable, life doesn't follow an entirely foreseeable pathway, you never know what may happen. Which makes a lot of sense when you think of the historical context in which it was written. Everything and everyone was more or less organized to be a certain way so people could plan their lives to a certain extent for their own survival and also their own happiness. It's all too sad that this has been mistranslated as "life is suffering" for so long. The noble truth makes total sense when seen in light of the rest of the noble truths. Because one acknowledges that they will never be able to predict and foresee and guarantee their happiness based on life circumstances... what then can they do? All they can do is really work on themselves and how they initiate and respond to life. Which is what the rest of the buddhist path basically is.

There is a major problem with your story. It's a story. No one has any idea what actually happened, if it happened at all. The master could be lying...and caused it to rain himself. No one knows. I get the point you're trying to make though. That's all well and good. I suppose desire could be better defined then. Few people can actually distinguish between needs and desires. Needing to survive is an instinct. Wanting beyond need is the impetus for growth and learning. Without it, nothing would happen. What I still don't understand is what cycle of suffering you are talking about? Finding peace of mind and maintaining it is all well and good. I am in no way talking down on that subject. That's a good thing. There are infinite ways people find to establish and continue on at peace with themselves and their surroundings. Since this was about Siddhis, the conversation went in that direction. You tried to say they weren't necessary, I'm saying they are. Because they are after a certain point in one's development or evolution or whatever you want to call it. Just like a skilled craftsmen compared to a fool. Who is more useful to the world? A person who can actually do things that assist others, or just a fool who is at peace with himself? Sure, it could be argued that both the craftsman and the fool have something to offer. However basic survival needs are met by the craftsman, not the fool. The craftsman can make many different things that benefit many different people. The fool only knows one thing that can benefit only certain sects of people. So, in the end - the fool's influence is limited compared to the craftsman. The fool is less able to assist and help others simply because they lack the skills to do so. Obviously - the great traditions espouse the notion that we develop knowledge and wisdom at the same time, or acquire skills and peace of mind simultaneously. Have you ever read "Siddartha" by Herman Hesse? In the end there is a good passage on "peace". Being alone is best balanced by not being alone, obviously. All I'm saying is that they are both important. It's totally fine if you disagree.... but people who actually renounce the world and try to go live by themselves miss out on a lot that life has to offer by being with other people. Friendship, love, fun, etc etc etc. Humans are social creatures, its in our DNA. Resisting that will definitely bring about suffering in some form.

Sure, the presence of someone can have "magical" effects... no secret there. Just like how a persons presence can be felt by normal people who are paying attention. Just like how immensely powerful beings ( Like the sun ) emanate their power that effects everything. Thats one kind of power. Thats not the only kind. There are many more of course. Which one has to develop to understand and use. How did the wandering master even know the village was out of balance? See, thats another power that takes effort to learn and use. The master obviously developed enough to know what was going on there. How is the desire of a boy who wants candy any different than the desire of a woman who wants a siddhi? If you're going to assert wide sweeping things by how you talk incorrectly, I suggest you revise your way of speech. Desire is the same no matter the object desired. What makes you so sure there are levels of bondage attached to different objects of desire? Doesn't make any sense to me. All that matters is how much one desires and for how long. Bind you? Bind you to what? Is this the beginning of the "we need to escape this dimension" concept? Because if it is - I strongly disagree and refute that opinion a million times over. We're all here for some reason. There is no urgent and life long need to escape physical reality. It exists for a reason. Everything does. Nothing can exist that does not have a reason to exist. That concept is nearly as bad as Christian "salvation". Utterly immoral in the truest sense of the word...Claiming reasons to do things that are completely not true. What you have been referring to is "being at peace" with oneself. That's an individual state of mind and being, it revolves around being focused more or less on yourself most of the time - hence being alone was mentioned. Even when you're around other people, if you don't engage with them their presence is basically moot. No wonder so many buddhist followers are sadly extremely self absorbed and overly critical of basically everything life has to offer... lol. Probably because they misunderstood the meaning of the Buddha's first noble truth that has been incorrectly translated and spread around the world for thousands of years. Developing Siddhis is very much related to being alone. It's really only through solitary isolated repeated practice that any Siddhis would ever be manifested. The effects ( siddhis ) only happen as an extension of oneself, only come from oneself. Being alone is basically required for people who need isolation to focus and be still. I suppose you could do it in a group setting, but it would just be a group of people all working with themselves and not the group, because the presence of other people would basically make it more challenging I would venture to suspect.

Controlling nature was not meant to be meant in those ways. calling forth rain, the sunshine, influencing ones own body to harmony, etc. Those are the themes meant by controlling nature. Yeah, well your monkey story is great for no one with a brain that thinks things by itself. Not for me. 12 year olds have simple lives? Hahaha!!!!!! Not according to your little philosophy, all their desires make them miserable.... hahaha so pathetic. Spirituality for the masses is what you're talking about. Be nice, don't want too much so you're not disappointed, etc. thats where all that stuff comes from. Fine, I agree to a point. But, there is a lot more that you could be aware of. But of course, you have nothing substantial to say... just like I thought. You're just another mind fuck who likes to regurgitate what they read without any critical thinking being applied to the larger questions. Geez... I suppose it's too much to expect even a decent conversation out of someone like you. No, you're too busy sitting there all into yourself. Good luck with that. When you eventually resign to the fact that being alone all the time sucks, maybe we could talk...not that you would probably have anything to say though.

It's not about clinging to the world. Please stop repeating things you read. It's about living your life well and however you so choose. By not reinforcing the clinging, you can go to where? What are you even talking about? Um, Sounds like you are gravely mistaken in what I was talking about. Im not controlled by fear. Controlling nature is a very real thing that is borne out of wanting to do it because it can be done. It's not about fear at all. Riddle me this - if you could bake a cake by yourself and it would turn out to be the best cake ever would you choose to do that, or would you go buy one from the store knowing that it would not be as good? And realizing ones nature is just the beginning of a very long road. It's not the end, like you seem to suggest. Thats the problem with some traditions...they don't go far enough. Been there done that. Wake up and live now. You're also mistaken on vanquishing nature.... never mentioned attempts to thwart the reality of nature. Controlling it, is controlling it. Not rendering it obsolete. You're monkey story is absurd. I'm not a monkey, neither are you. It's utterly baffling to me how people like you actually believe they can achieve something without wanting to achieve it at all. Its total bullshit. Do yo honestly think anyone ever realized or achieved anything because they didn't want to? Because they did not do anything? 100% false. People who try to realize their nature - are trying to do something, which is born of desire. Plain and simple. No one can escape. Did the Buddha want to become enlightened? YES, he did. Just because the basic impulse drives you, doesn't mean that it has to overtake you along the ride ; - ) Which is wiser? Your questions are pathetic. These are not things to consider in light of any definition of wisdom. Having been given the truth? What truth? Delusions of the phenomenal world? What delusions? I'm not deluded. All you're saying is basically this - " Hey things change, so don't get too wrapped up in them. Enjoy the flow of life." Haha - what a grand realization you've made!!! Congratulations on waxing poetic on basic facts of life that wise people learn when they're like 12 years old.

Um, I'm entirely open to hear whatever you want to say. Doesn't sound like you have anything to offer though... too bad. You can't really convince me that my mind is closed, when you are the one in denial of realities that you don't even acknowledge exist.

There is evidence psychic powers are real. You're wrong. I've participated in them. Open your mind.

Ok, so evolution of the phenomenal world exists obviously - proven by years of science. Evolution of one's true nature - does not exist. It's changeless. Development - totally exists. Development as an energetic spiritual being that is. Without development of ones astral and mental bodies... you'll be rendered pretty useless as a being. It's just like being a physical person in a sense. When you are young you learn how to operate yourself physically, mentally, and emotionally to function in the physical world we inhabit. Without basic necessary skills you wouldn't survive. The same is true for spirituality. Yes, while you may revel in your blissful self and cherish it as the one and only basic truth of your existence, without anything more - that realization doesn't get you anywhere because it's just intellectual knowledge. It may provide you with peace of mind, but life is not only about having peace of mind all the time. Life isn't about one thing all the time. Its about many things throughout time. To be functional in an effective way as a spiritual being one must develop and know how to function as one. That's why development is a good term to describe that and is important to do. Knowing the intellectual basics are good foundations. I suppose if you really wanted to sit and meditate your entire life, you could. But, you'd miss out on a lot that life has to offer. Asserting that there is nowhere to go is plain stupid to me. There are tons of places to go! Thats why you develop - so you can go to all the great places. Why else do people meditate at all, or try to do any of this whatsoever? It's not just to know what they basically are, it's to learn and experience more of existence. It's just like when you are a kid, sure you can have a great time being content with yourself and not driving anywhere, but that doesn't mean that when you are old enough you shouldn't drive around in a car to see more of the world. If you don't explore, you'll be just that more ignorant of those experiences. Without the vehicle you can't get to those places fast enough, without development you can't get anywhere or do anything correctly in an intelligible way. It's actually every being's destiny to develop themselves. It's really simple why. If you don't control nature, you are dominated by it. Once you reach a certain level in your own state being and realize how connected everything is, you can't look away. You either choose to live under the influences of forces you don't understand, or you choose to embrace those forces as tools to shape your own life as a free self-realized being. Without development, you'll always be under the former - dominated by the oppression of nature.

Siddhis = side effects of being in tune with oneself and the external world to such a degree that ones intent can become manifest through the laws under which it operates. In other words, these "Siddhis" are basically nothing more than events that occur when one is in a certain state of mind and is also influencing oneself or the external world through thought/intention/emotion. Thats why Patanjali says they are accomplishments of the fluctuating mind. Because they literally are just and only that. These things naturally occur spontaneously only when the circumstances are correct for them to occur. They are not "powers" that people possess, they are just extensions of ones true nature manifested in existence. In a way they are a type of "spiritual experience" in that they occur for reasons invisible to the naked eye and are not able to be understood through common human reasoning. It's actually quite important for them to occur for anyone who is honestly on the spiritual path, because they are proof of what happens, which presents evidence of reason to continue further in one's goals. If they don't happen at all, what reason would anyone have to move forward? How would anyone know that they have encountered a new connection of sorts between themselves and the external world? They wouldn't. They would just be a devout, believer with no knowledge or experience beyond belief. A very dangerous proposition indeed...believers without knowledge. What is the benefit of evolution? That's kind of a moot question, as evolution isn't something that benefits anything in a certain respect, because it influences everything, it's not something to be used, and can't really be controlled. Evolution in the natural sense has to occur so that forms of life survive through the changes they experience in their environments, as they are always in flux more or less. Evolution in the "spiritual" sense is different. Theoretically speaking, that term "spiritual evolution" is rather confusing I think. There is a part of us that doesn't experience change - what is called our true nature, etc. And then there is all the rest of us that does experience change. What is confusing is that nearly every "mystical or esoteric" pathway leads to the same result through what is called "evolution". But thats where it breaks down, because evolution in the physical world takes form as different appearances, changes in biology etc. The end of the natural evolution is just more or less defined by changes that facilitate an organism surviving. "Spiritual evolution" is different. We don't just change to survive. We learn to grow. Thats why I think it's more like learning and acquiring knowledge rather than evolving. Through the learning and knowledge gained, one will of course develop some sort of new perspective, so in a sense they "evolved" or "changed" or "grew". But, the force behind that change or growth is usually mere curiosity, wonder, or yearning to learn; not a need to survive. Thats why I don't see it as a evolution really, more like a linear advancement along a self directed path where the things learned are the same for everyone, just learned differently and at different times. "Development" is a better word to describe it to me.

...love by itself can go two ways. Love that is constructive, or love that is destructive. There is no law of how oneself is to live. All there are, are consequences of actions. Thats the law. Love isn't a law. Obviously, to most people feeling, giving and receiving love is pleasurable and beneficial in many respects. However, just because those are the consequences, doesn't make love an obligation to follow like being a "law" would infer or suggest.

...sometimes anger is an easy way to find a reason to do something. One simply doesn't like what is happening, becomes angry out of the dislike of it, and then acts to change it. Thats about all that anger can do for anyone in my opinion. Attempting to "store" or work with one's "anger" is unwise. Anger doesn't really exist except in one's own fleeting mind and ones fleeting emotions, sometimes in ones memory. I think people get confused by the similarity that anger has with willpower, intent, and desire. Willpower, intent, and desire are kinda related because they are rooted in the self. I attempted to work with anger and negative emotions once, to great harm to myself. My body began to destroy itself literally...not a good thing. All that being said, anger isn't something to dismiss away entirely, but to be understood. It's better to be angry and ready to do something about it, than to acquiesce into a hopeless victim of sorts in life. It could be said that anger is one of the roots of all the spiritual traditions... I mean do we honestly think people sat around trying to become enlightened and grow because they were so satisfied with their lives? No, I don't think so. People probably were a little bit angry with life (dissatisfied), with why things happened a certain way, and wanted to alleviate their experience of that, which led to many new journeys inward and outward. There was a story in "The magus of Java" where a tale of a rogue mo-pai practitioner fueled his training by hatred. He was successful in learning the techniques regardless of why he wanted to... Anger is best when understood, embraced for what it can do, and then let go of. Unwise to try and store, use, or build things with anger as the main force.

...well you may want to try and change that, right? I'd suggest forgetting it entirely for awhile and return back to day to day activities on a routine of sorts, like laundry, exercise, practicing a hobby or something, making meals, etc.

... dude this song sucks. The world is already perfect in a sense. Just because things happen that are not super awesome blissful experiences all the time doesn't mean its not perfect in its own way. Life and death rule everything, unity and division create the rhyme and rhythm that pulses evolution forward. The law of karma is utterly perfect and always occurring.

Hippies? Haha, my friends Dad was a real hippie, went to Woodstock, protested the war and all of that. He had some good stories, still kept the clothes he wore during that time... The hippy culture appeared to have made some good social progress but also declined some social progress. Through the hippy movement, many new ideas were spread of course - peace, love, etc. And new ways of experiencing life were explored. I believe exploring things is a positive to a point. The hippies were instrumental in challenging the staunch conservative view of life that was widespread throughout the developed world. Unfortunately, the hippy movement was so counter-culture in the sense that they denied living in society on its terms that a lot of them devolved into criminals, prostitutes, drug addicts, etc. The ones who didn't basically get out of it according to my friends Dad. They all got jobs by the 70's. Haha, protest against the very fabric of society can only go so far for so long... Jimmy Page had a take on the hippies in SF - he said he traveled there thinking it would be like a cool collection of creative people sharing ideas and creating art together, but what he found was that it was just a bunch of people doing drugs all the time and riffing on nice sympathetic philosophies. Hippies pioneered free love - but it wasn't really love was it? The idea of having sex with multiple people together at times while on drugs - is more like a nice lustful pleasure to fulfill oneself temporarily. Actual love is more about commitment, support, embracement, and true intimate connection. It'd be interesting to look up the stats on single mothers and unwanted children relative to the availability of birth control... if you ask me - that was a double edged sword. More people felt empowered to live their live freely, but society probably felt the brunt of more unwanted/accidental children, who when not properly raised- hold high risks of becoming criminals. Turns out my friends dad's son - basically turned into a modern day hippy. He loved being high on psychedelics... so much so that he was at risk for needing mental therapy. He's a real nobody now - waiting tables and doing drugs all the time. Oh, what a life to be a hippy.... when you take away the drugs and attempts at living together what do you see? A failed system of life because they denied some truths about life and relationships that the conservative majority knew and embraced. Like - choices have consequences that you're responsible for that reach far into the future. Like, not everyone can live together forever - just not possible. The hippies were basically stuck in their own dream, some of them woke up...some did not. I mean to me - if you have to do drugs to open your mind, you're already behind. You've already committed to becoming a heavy user right away. Opening your mind is a noble and admirable thing to do, but giving drugs the power to do it for you is the absolute worst way to practice it...thats the beginning of developing an addiction.

... while there have been many definitions and interpretations of it, I think Patanjali described a version of that term that captures what most other definitions also do, but in a better way. Patanjali describes it as a state of meditative absorption, that is characterized by 2 distinct parts, which when combined bring about the state of "samadhi" 1. Focused attention 2. Effortless mediation So in essence, it's a state of mind where one is completely focused on something effortlessly. It could be thought of as being "in the zone". For example, when you see someone deeply involved in reading something and try to talk to them but they don't respond because they simply are tuned out from the outside - they are in a type of samadhi. Now, that is the basic definition. There are many other levels to this of state of mind which many traditions speak of that can be confusing at times because they use this term over and over again. However, the term is really easy to understand as "being one with" it's like connecting your essential nature to whatever else you're focusing on. Through that connection one gains deeper understanding all the way from oneself, to the physical world, and higher above through planets and eventually the entire universe. It has also been defined as "the flowing from subject to object". Which is another way to say "being one with".

...I think you misunderstand the point of that state within the larger context. That state of mind is the beginning state needed to inquire further into things, or to deeply contemplate things. Meditation is a technique, not the end result or goal. All meditation is - is mediating the mind... so it becomes a useful tool for you, rather than a skewed arbiter of excessive, unnecessary, and at times delusional thoughts. ...it's just another state of mind to flow into and out of throughout your life. No one is meant to remain in it forever. If you stay in it for too long and do nothing with yourself while in it - of course you'll lose interest in things, because your basically stopping all perception of the outside world while also not delving into the inner world. You're like sitting in limbo, in a hypnotized state of mind. If you do it for too long and too much like that, you'll actually erode your mental intellectual capacity because you've slowed down all that your mind does, without combining it's calmness with the internal work that nearly all authentic traditions practice.

Buddhism? Why? You're dealing with an asshole. The only way to deal with assholes is to put them in their place. If you try the "oh I'll be compassionate and all that towards this guy"... then you'll probably just get more of the same because you're basically enabling them to continue to be a jerk. If you don't want to waste your time bickering with a jerk, just don't. Leave and do something else, or find new people to play with. Pretty sure the Buddha would recommend the same, as he often said "don't have friends just because you think you need them." In other words, quality relationships is the only answer to your basic question. Immature, ego-centric people who try to tear you down are toxic to your well being and should be told so - you could view such a confrontation with them as a compassionate thing as eventually if they don't recognize their faults their own lives will continue to suffer. But in doing so, you obviously should be prepared for the classic response from them - " no im not you are! " to which I would laugh in their face and say "good luck being a dick, no one of any worth will ever respect you, see ya douche bag."

I've heard the hatching and development of larvae on the mental level while fully awake. These things are created by every person, they're kind of like greedy little beings that arise out of intense emotional thinking and feed off of it too. So the more you think in that way the more they develop - kinda makes sense of the whole thoughts are things idea... the more you think about something specific and intensely the more energy you give that idea and since you are it's source and it doesn't want to die - it clings to to you. I've created schemata. I've seen a spectral blue wolf protecting my house. I've been freaked out by devils through my radio. I've been sent notes in the mail inspired by God, from people whom I've never met who had no way of knowing my address. I've telepathically planted thoughts in peoples minds, which led them to do things. I've charged the sun with my energy and have cast away storms. I've manifested mental fluid out from my body and shaped it through thought/imagination to become objects. I've spontaneously manifested rocks out of thin air. I've inspired the wind to rock the trees. I've cracked objects with thought waves. I've used visualization to cause events that did happen. ...Best thing about all of this - helpfuldemon; I did it all by myself. I didn't have to use or associate with any demons or angels or anything. Just me, my true nature, and the laws of the invisible world.

....kinda sad you fell into madness. Don't know what you really call "magic" to be. But, it is entirely under our ability to control. How else do you think the Buddha transported a group of people across a river with his mind/imagination? How else do you think Jesus commanded the winds, rocks, and tress? How else do you think the hindu yogis do things that stupefy everyone like levitating, being invisible, and teleporting and manifesting things out of nothingness?

I'd caution you to even begin to subscribe any truth to anything like that... what's the point of knowing it anyway? Are there aliens, probably. What even is ascension? Be reminded of the classic tale of Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti was a devotee of the order of the star, he believed he was doing something good while there. But, his brother was dying while he was active in it. He was worried about his brother and didn't want to commit anymore time to the order. Thats when his so called "ascended masters" who were invisible around him tried to proclaim that his brother would be ok and would live. His brother didn't live, he died. Soon after - Krishnamurti out of disillusionment to invisible words - dissolved the entire order of the star with his speech - "Truth is a pathless land." If you can't locate the source of a sound or voice - you have no idea what it is where it comes from or why it says what it does. Since the universe is enormous, full of all sorts of beings who all have free-will - its impossible to discern things simply by hear say.

....yeah it is. If God of the Bible is an eternal thing, which everyone more or less infers that it is... then the first passage of the Tao TE Ching refers to it: "The way that can be followed is not the eternal way. The tao that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. Ever desireless one can see the mystery. Ever desiring one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; This appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery." .....So what this poem basically describes is that the source of all existence (God) is the eternal tao - the nameless. A taoist mystic can experience the gate to all mystery by first acknowledging that they must find their own way to it, as it cannot be taught to anyone at all. Why is that? Because it is inside of yourself, inside of everything... its the darkness within darkness. Unrecognizable to the untrained. Taoists do not pray to god like Christians, jews, and other religions do - mostly because they see no use for it. People who pray to god to help their lives are not bad or anything, they just lack the deeper knowledge required to manifest whatever it is that they want. Taoists and other mystical traditions unlock some of that knowledge. A true taoist actually seeks to evolve towards becoming one with the tao, so that they can realize their highest self and live their happiest existence. The tao ( God ) can create and do anything it wants, a highly realized taoist evolves to the point of being a "celestial immortal". Those people or beings - transcend the limits of space and time and are one with the Tao on many levels. Many highly realized spiritual masters work towards this same goal. Why is that? Because they can. It is possible by many accounts and my own experiences to be someone so magical that you could literally be called a "little god". Basically being a spiritual being rather than a human being. This is the goal for anyone who actually asks the valid question to any and all religions - what's the point of this? If religions don't help you, their useless and should be discarded. If traditions do, embrace them. Having said that - being a good person is important regardless, because I have to live in your world too. :---) The major difference that can be seen by comparing western religions with eastern ones is really simple. Western religions place too much importance on made up dogma and rules to live by out of fear of being persecuted. While eastern religions and the oriental religions place much more emphasis on personal growth to realize the true nature of everything - to bring peace of mind more or less to everyone. So while the gods of western religions divide everyone (which was done on purpose in history) - the beliefs, gods, and other things of eastern religions educate and inspire more so. Hinduism - has the creator god (Brahman). Buddhism - Doesn't denounce the existence of God. They can't refute what they cannot prove or disprove. So the God concept is simply not taught. However, there is the classic story of how Buddha responded to someone seeking to know if there is a God. His response to a man after asking him about it was simply - "Each person must find their own way to God." I can say from my own personal experience, that all these ways of attempting to have some sort of "relationship" to God are useful. I know God exists, I consider it a great testament to know that. I don't believe, I know. What I do believe in is the power of that knowledge. I like you, was and still am an intellectual in pursuit of learning the truth about God. I started to learn the intellectual ways of contrasting and comparing things through religions too, however eventually they all don't do enough. To really know God, you must really want to by yourself with no lens of any religion whatsoever. Thats what "truth" actually is. God is synonymous with truth. The only way to explore truth is to find a way to see things for what they really are - which is what buddhism and meditation are good for. Buddhism was basically a hindu offshoot, even the Buddha learned how to meditate from a hindu sage. If you want to actually know things - you have to experience them. You can't just learn about them and accept them intellectually. That's why you need to meditate, so you find, enter, and explore that darkness within darkness - the gate to all mysteries - the great Tao.

You follow huh? So what's happened to you so far? Perfection = ? strange that people still use this word. It's totally meaningless. That's because even if what you say is true about the form and biology of people... you only have others to compare it to. Perfection carries the stigma and connotation that whatever isn't equal to something is imperfect, and also that perfect things somehow exist in relation to their environment in a better or more perfect way... but no one really knows how far us, everything, and the universe goes... so there isn't a standard by which to judge anything as perfect or imperfect. It's a philosophical and logical impossibility. I still don't know if there is any worth to doing any spiritual development beyond simply learning enough for oneself to be at peace with oneself. Why go to these lengths? Who are you going to become, and why? Evolving past being a normal human being seems quite lonely to me... ... I mean all the "powers that be" aside... we are what we are now - its not as if our current state is contrary to some universal decree... if it was, we would be different. But we're not. Which leads me to believe that life itself and the universe don't know or express anything related to perfection at all.... they do something else entirely. Hence the concept that everything in the phenomenal world is the outcome of everything's collective imagination set into action by intent, emotion, and willpower. The forms and biology of people included.