Jadespear

Emotions are like waves They come, they go The water that creates the waves is like the essence of life itself - pure energy Could something be said to exist if it truly felt nothing? Even the most basic element in science undergoes "feelings" of a kind...their inherent nature that directs their behavior in the natural world under any given number of environmental forces...from basic elements through the mineral, plant, and animal kingdoms, and further into the immaterial spatial world... Whatever emotions you send out into the world, or embrace - will come back to you just like a wave that returns over and over again against the shore. Of course some waves destroy, others nurture. There are only two basic differences in qualities of emotions, division or constructiveness. And even though divisive emotions can be seen over time to band together people who share similar views against an "other"... they will ultimately only accelerate their own demise.

.... since the idea of suicide is out there, no one is safe from it. Just like no one is safe from drivers on the road... But, like any danger to oneself - it can be prevented and avoided by practicing certain things that don't allow it to become prevalent in ones life. All suicides are expressions of escapism, wanting to be somewhere else for whatever reason. So, if you like who you are, where you are, and what you are continually doing.... there's little chance for the idea of suicide to ever take root.

... My friend's Dad was hospitalized because he contracted the Covid 19 virus. My other friends work associate contracted it and is on a watchlist. How can you claim that this is a joke? There is no basis in fact to believe that. The only basis in truth we have, is that this is a new version of a coronavirus that has spread throughout the world and has killed lots of people. What your former qigong master says is not important if it is ignorant of the simple facts of what is going on. Comparing this recent outbreak to other diseases doesn't diminish the fact that it is real and it is life threatening. So, before you get all into your own clever way of disjointly assembling dots into some crack pot conspiracy theory, consider that the world doesn't benefit by being abruptly shut down and in chaos.

.....providence may have provided those things but---- .... zero effort? ..... don't think so.... why else do people cultivate themselves for years? ....more like tremendous effort, to make oneself more aware of their internal nature by tuning out the entire external world.

Time heals all wounds.... everything changes, eventually. There are a lot of "spiritual practices" across the world...If you are looking for something to answer your questions it would make the most sense to identify a tradition local to you where you can actually have real relationships with people. No cults of course. As to life after death - you can certainly read up on it by reading all the books written by Robert Monroe, who was an out of body explorer who had no religious coloration to his experiences at all. He wrote 3 books - " Journey's out of the body" " Far Journeys" and "The Ultimate Journey". you can find these online for free. ...experiencing the next world or place ( the afterlife ) while alive- is actually against your very nature...people began to do that only after they had mastered a certain level of knowledge within themselves because they desired to learn more... there isn't really a quick way to be able to go there through astral projection or out of body journeys.... and also many people report that to even operate as an astral being ( to exist and be able to maneuver around like a physical human being ) you need to be acclimated to how your own astral body works and how the astral world works...i.e. you have to be clairvoyant, clairaudient, and clairsentient to properly function in the astral world.... it's not a small task to be able to violate natural law and exit your body and reach a high vibratory plane in the astral world : - ) There are numerous accounts of people who try too hard too fast and rush it - and end up going crazy, literally living out their days in mental hospitals. If you wanted learn about more of it, I'd check out Franz Bardon's books, they are highly regarded as being authentic and true. In essence here are the facts: 1. There are 3 main "worlds" in the outer macro universe that correspond to the inner worlds within people: - The mental sphere, plane, or world ( your mind, or spirit ). - The astral world, sphere, or plane ( your energy and emotion, i.e. your soul ) - The physical world, sphere, or plane ( your physical body ) 2. We progress from the physical world upon death to the astral world. The astral world is vast and everyone arrives at a certain place in the astral world according to their own level of mental and astral maturity, or vibration...their "energetic signature" so to speak. People live in the astral world for a certain period of time and eventually their astral body decays, upon which event their mental body or spirit travels to the mental plane, and exists there....under the same law of arriving to a place in the mental plane according to their minds maturity or "energetic signature". These concepts have been spoken on, lectured on, and continue to be corroborated by authentic practitioners of spiritual practices.

Taoist texts also put forth a similar concept, based on the comprehension that all life evolves into higher forms. From the bottom to the top: Bottom - Evil men next - Little men Next - Gentlemen Next- Sages Top- Immortals So, eventually everyone evolves into Immortals, within the human kingdom. Descriptions: Evil men - people who basically enjoy hurting others, extremely selfish Little men - people who are more or less guided by greed and improving their own viewpoints, selfish Gentlemen - people who understand morality and are guided by propriety and seek to improve their friends and families lives Sages - people who truly understand righteousness and endeavor to learn and guide others when able through scholastic means on all subjects and endeavor to unite closer to the Tao. Immortals - god like beings who are deeply knowledgeable in the workings of the Tao and offer support/interaction with all other beings. Possess miraculous abilities and save people. The interesting thing is at any point along this scale of description anyone can be "spiritually conscious" or "liberated" etc. etc. so classifying someone as that is not the point because that is only a quality of someone, not the whole the picture. This scale above - describes people by how they act and by who they are on the inside.... so to me it is more useful. There are plenty of stories of black magicians, and evil sorcerers to show that just because someone has knowledge "spiritual liberated, or whatever " about something doesn't mean they are any less evil because of it or that they are somehow measured differently in spite of that. Another scale is an even easier one: 1. Stupid people. ( yes I'm sorry to say it like this, but they're out there ) 2. Somewhat bright people 3. Clever people 4. Wise people

I too have had extraordinary experiences while chanting in my mind. Thinking is more powerful than speaking in the "spiritual" sphere...thats what I found. I was shown a way stemming from hindu beliefs, and yes the hindu pantheon has many many deities that correlate to specific energies and elemental quantities. The greatest experiences I had were basically all some aspect of blissful immersion in ecstatic ways = blissful aromas surrounding me, blissful feelings inside me, blissful voices speaking to me through ESP..... the hindu way I learned is basically geared towards that more than anything, they just love the bliss more than anything, and I do too. Oddly enough, a true master is so developed in absolute reality immersion all the time that nothing could ever impact his bliss. Funny to me how nearly every oriental philosophy has the underlying premise of doing nothing at all and enjoying one's existence as the ultimate aim of every path and things learned along them... spirituality from their view is so much easier than basically all other schools of thought and it actually works. Chanting is just the tool to build more and more of the energy of the divine in yourself... eventually the goal is to not have to chant anymore because you've become so well developed in states of being that happened as effects of chanting. Which is one reason why I believe chanting should also be balanced by not doing it. ( my yin and yang method ) Of even more importance to be aware of; as you chant you literally make your mind more powerful in all ways because you are repeating and strengthening the idea you are fixated on- this has a side effect as well - that of the fact that all other thoughts thought by you also now carry more power of attraction in the "mental" plane or aspect of your existence and everything your mind is connected to.... all places, people, and everything you basically know about anywhere in your mind. I'm not joking. So your thoughts will exert an influence further throughout your life than before...... hence the importance to always be a moral person in your mind. More important than anything actually. You cannot allow yourself to think ill of anything or anyone ever, because if you do you will risk the incursion of serious consequences.

Has anyone read or given thought to the prose of the Ching Chin Ching? ... I find the Legge translation quite inspiring and factual... especially this part - "In that condition of rest independently of place how can any desire arise? And when no desire any longer arises, there is the True stillness and rest. That True (stillness) becomes (a) constant quality, and responds to external things (without error); yea, that True and Constant quality holds possession of the nature." "In such constant response and constant stillness there is constant Purity and Rest. He who has this absolute Purity enters gradually into the (inspiration of ) True Tao. And having entered thereinto, he is styled Possessor of the Tao." "Although he is styled Possessor of the Tao, in reality he does not think he has becomed possessed of anything. It is as accomplishing the transformation of all living things, that he is styled Possessor of the Tao."

...ok quite possible. I have no idea whether it is true or not. But why? What does anyone gain?

Hahahaha, the classic inquiry of an awe inspired mind. Can it really be????? Yes. It can. Miracles abound in our existence. Consider this story, one that many people know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Ching-Yuen

Has anyone had contact with deities in the astral realm? Has anyone advanced to the level of functioning as a deity in the astral realm?

Welcome Xiao San. What do you like about taoism? Is there a specific field of information that interests you?...such as internal exercises, herbology, philosophy? ...There are many people on this site that have very different practices, interests, and opinions. I would suggest to look at this site as more of an open place to relate and inquire rather than a place to seek direct instruction/training. Lots of people here read A LOT. As in- most of the information discussed here is lifted from historical texts. Perhaps beginning with a book that interests you would be a good start.

... why try to acclimate? I understand that constant thought or even the most menial of thinking is one thing that can be called "the intellect", and there is another way of understanding that is more intuitive, which I believe is the somewhat basis of certain types of thought, and there is even yet another level deeper that is subconscious and instinctual. Underlying all these and through them is the all pervasive awareness of oneself. Are you trying to only be aware ?

... The paradox is just a hidden message of telling people to not follow other people just because it is easy. In all honesty, how can anyone really say they have never at least heard or even pursued the thoughts or practices of another person in any subject?.... no one can. From there, a totally divergent idea evolves around spirituality. Spirituality by its nature is both subjective and objective. Hence the paradox pervades the musings of krishnamurti.

I hope you all know that the word “adept” simply means one who is skilled. All you’re debating here is mostly philosophical and subjective in nature to your own experiences... nothing really adept about it... unless you count having a philosophical point of view and opinion and your own experiences as equating to an adept... pretty sure real “adepts” actually have somewhat useful skills more than intellectual conjecture and mental mind games.

...Yes, while the constant internal verbal speaking is unnecessary, what you are referring to in it's place to use I also understand to be a form of thinking... or "understanding". My point was that our internal dialogue is a natural result of that intuitive type of "understanding" or base of knowledge we have... hence it is pointless to try and end the natural part of ourselves that is our thinking.

...why on earth would you not want to think? Thinking is the basis of your intellect, which is your ability to understand things through reasoning and rationale. If you don't think and cant understand things, what kind of existence are you going to have?

....right - exactly. Krishnamurti was a person who discovered a way to make money off of all this stuff by capitalizing on the counter-culture of his time, while incorporating an aspect of rebellion to even people who started the counter-culture... ...there are other factors involved as well, namely that no where else in the world besides the US, would a person like Krishnamurti be able to make as much money as he did in the US - obviously because his whole thing is based in using only himself as the reference point for any type of understanding, which has been the eastern view of all things fundamentally forever. He made a killing off of showing this attitude and practice to the West, in a time that was ripe for it to be received. ...if Krishnamurti actually believed 100% in what he talked about and had any life skills outside of being a philosopher ( which he didn't because all the way up until 29 years old - he was groomed by the theosophists and grew as a philosopher and meditator ), than he would have probably not been who he was in history... but alas this is only to illustrate the point that even the most profound thinkers can be hypocritical.

...Yeah. We can never really pontificate at what was... without being there.

...dzogchen' esque ... I would suspect, however not traditional dzogchen. Krishnamurti developed a literary concept to explain his point of view, called "choiceless awareness"... many other schools of thought refer to it as well, some of them are fundamental consciousness, etc. etc. The dzogchen refer to the "natural state" of mind as one being entirely open and unconditioned...very similar concepts. However, dzogchen departs from K's thinking when it goes into actual exercises to bring about realizations within an individual through specific practices like trekcho. K was more of a philosopher who found a way to make a living writing books and giving speeches in a time where he was viewed as an outsider to mainstream thought. The breaking away from theosophist's happened because when he was a member of the group that became them later on, while in his youth, his brother was ill. The later to be theosophists wanted K to be the leader of their group the order of the star, and they even went so far as to guarantee him that they would heal his brother, these are invisible spiritual masters we are talking about... they did not heal him and his brother died. Thus laid the root for the long life of bitterness K had towards anyone promising him anything and an attitude of extreme criticism towards everything.

...I think that everything Krishnamurti ever spoke on or cared to exude can be summed up in his most famous quote, that he used to begin his speech when he disbanded the order of the star in front of thousands of people, due to his brother dying and he having lost faith in theosophists... " truth is a pathless land "

...no one really knew what Krishnamurti “advocated” for. He was the most against advocating anything during his time. And the relationship of words meaning more to people than what they represent was one of his lifelong criticisms of modern society.

...Yes, obviously. But, you haven't really elaborated on what it actually is... all you have done is shown that the word is separate from the actual thing and recognized that a tree is an actual thing that has a presence that you can feel... so would you care to try and attempt to make your previous statement mean anything? "It's so much more.." --- you haven't proven that yet. To some people the word "tree" could mean more to them than you realize, then the power of the word can be even more powerful than the actual thing itself...

...obviously a tree is just a word. Care to elaborate on what makes it so much more? The light that is actually everywhere and in everything is what I tend to see... i actually understand trees and all life to be more or less the same fundamentally so - it's all forms of life existing by virtue of the innate light that is in actually everything... so however complex something can be or seem, it ultimately is not. Hence my simplistic point of view and obvious candor for real resolve. I have not found a single thing that does not contain that light. I think Patanjali called it, the "purusha" - absolute consciousness, that is actually what everything really is on the inside.