Jadespear

...maybe not for abnormal people. That's why I said normal people. Balanced people. Show me a person on this planet that wants to die and be miserable who is actually alive. I was just illustrating a point that there are both absolute unchangeable things about life as well as things that do change based upon our choices. The concept of absolute truth is not a nebulous idea, as it can easily be illustrated in any way- water boils at and only at a certain temperature; no one can change this. ...ok - well the "knowledge" of what mystical concept that can't be described or spoken? No matter what it is - its a potential truth, or fact, that can be expressed conceptually and in a significantly meaningfully enough way to be understood. Such is the beauty of words of course. The normally unseen world and everything "spiritual" is a world of things just like the material world that we see is, in so far that it exists and operates through specific parameters and is subject to absolute truths; i.e. like it takes time to read, to walk places, etc. The same method of knowing how you know something applies to both worlds... ...I think that the mysterious stigma that can be attached to the concept of spirituality should really be done away with. It really only creates doubt and confusion. How does one know what they fundamentally are? they simply see it, just like when one sees a tree, or another person.

lol..... thanks for your "opinion".

...sounds like you may find the writings of William Mistele interesting... he refers to great beings and the like all the time. from what I can gather by reading occult and magic books is that there are certain entities that basically control or influence every single aspect of life itself.

...i think the world of human civilization is in a state of permanent evolution or change. This permanent "evolution" is driven or made to be what it is by the constancy of both definite truth and also of relative values. What I mean by definite truth are the basics of every normal thinking person - they want to survive and be happy doing what they choose to do. What I mean by relative values is that every person and every group and every nation - in short everyone everywhere has their own values, not just personal beliefs - i mean decisions that are made from a base of what is valued; like what to buy and what to sell. Hence - human society is always struggling to cope and deal with this in how to organize everything- enter politics and all the rest of it. ...How we know what we know? What's so hard about this...? facts are facts, lies are lies, truth is truth. It's a branch of defined philosophy called logical positivism. Asking for the basis of knowledge has been answered by science. ...is there some-kind of knowledge that you are referring to specifically?

...don't be too sure of anything....not even that.

I’m going to attempt to offer some final thoughts on this question of what is the end goal of Taoism. Taoism as a collective understanding of intellectual and mental and spiritual practices is a way to cultivate oneself in harmony with the natural way of things ( the Tao ). The Tao is a word to describe everything that is beyond words. That’s why ( the Tao translates to the way or the method ) method or way or tao is ever existent and not possible to change. Hence first and foremost a Taoist must comprehend what cannot be changed so that one can understand more about things and how to live long happy healthy and wise through the way of their lives and the lives of everything else. Certain taoist teachings lay the process of the evolution of all life as a fundamental aspect of the Tao or of the natural way of things...In such teachings human beings are regarded highly within the types of intelligent life that exist and because human beings are born with the same evolutionary compulsion as all life is- they too must fulfill the need to evolve into a higher form. What constitutes higher forms of human beings are titled in Taoism as immortals. Immortal to mean beyond normal typical mortality, or said another way - beings that understand ,can express, and use the eternal quantities and qualities of the eternal and unchanging nature of the way of things ( the Tao ) in a mental, spiritual, or physical way. At the end of such an exalted developed individual’s evolution ( a celestial immortal ) an embodied being is literally able to be and is karmically encouraged to be one with the entirety of the Tao itself....such a being is not bound by space or time, such a being is able to unite and work outside of space and time in the spaceless and timeless area of influence that is the Tao itself. This type of being is one that does possess all the mystical supernatural abilities , etc. etc. ...the goal of taoist internal cultivation is to develop oneself into this type of being, so as to serve as a steward of the Tao across the universes of all that is. Along the way to reach this freedom, the Tao assists and protects and guides oneself, and can even halt all progress should it be necessary for any reason. All of this is why taoists teachings emphasize leading people by being inconspicuous and not self serving - because that is a fundamental trait that is understood to be the essence of the Tao itself. Hence why it is called “the subtle “ “ ever desireless one can see the mystery. Ever desiring one can see the manifestations . These two spring Forth from the same source but appear different in name. This appears mysterious. This sameness is the mystery. Mystery within mystery. The door to all marvels.”

...the goal of taoism is not really agreed on throughout history, as taoist sects and people had their own interests and inclinations. There are many schools, many practices etc for fully understanding one's chi and how to use it. To understand taoism at it's core, it is best to consider what many "taoists" seek to do, or ways in which "to be"; as taoists typically see the universe as in flux, which means they do not endeavor toward any type of fixed "enlightenment", but of a greater understanding and awareness of living in harmony with the "tao", or the natural way of evolution and change.... Hence, the first passage from the Tao te Ching is: "The way that can be followed is not the eternal tao. The way that can be named is not the eternal name." Hindus and buddhists revere mental and soulful cultivation to the extent that they realize some great aspect of existence and herald that pinnacle of understanding as "enlightenment" which is then taught throughout communities and is exalted as being the "goal" so to speak for a great multitude of people... thus you have hindus with their "moksha" concept, and buddhists with their "no-self" concept. Taoism if viewed from this type of perspective may seem confusing. In some Taoist based books that I've read, the goals of taoists are multifaceted, some of them are: - to live long - to live happy - to live healthy - to live wise - to help others and not harm ( the way of heaven ) - to evolve one's state of being into a state unified with the tao ( Celestial immortal ) ... I think above all, the truest thing a "taoist" could say that they attempt to do is to live in harmony with their lives and the lives of those around them, so they can naturally flow with the great tao of existence itself.

Actually I think morality is an extension of the natural order that has preferences based on intelligence assimilating itself and forming opinions based in time and space that coincide with life forms whose existence is perpetuated as self awareness of their own identity and the identity of others perceived Hence; anything that identifies as something permanent or even temporal and seeks to continue itself or it's goal will choose a course of action to that end. Therefore morality is a course of action some choose to take, immorality is another. "natural law"--- what does that even mean? Nature has laws like all the laws of physics, why do you think these things exist? :::::::::::: To give us the means to experience. ...I actually like smartphones and not having to have stupid fake interactions with people who I don't give a shit about... I think it's progress towards a utopia. Utopia to me means life lived on my own terms, without the need to interact with idiots. I'd much rather live in a world dominated by free thinking technological robots than by tyrannical slave driving capitalists ( the past ).

I read an interesting concept from a taoist once on morality. The concept was that the more alike we are to something else, the more we relate to that thing and therefore feel connected to it, this relationship was termed "psychodynamics". For instance a human being feels that it is wrong to kill another human being in cold blood or if can be avoided, but he does not feel that same sense of morality towards a bug, a rock, or a tree..... simply because he does not identify as close to them as he does other human beings. If you reflect on it it kind of makes sense everywhere --- animals care more about themselves than you, bacteria and viruses do not care about you at all. I don't know if this concept is absolute, however it does make sense and does create a kind of balance in the larger picture of life itself; each species and variety of life shares a closer connection to it's fellows, therefore each part of life protects itself and therefore the whole of life has the best chance of continuing on...and evolving into higher forms of embodied intelligence, ( Light Instilled Forever Energetically ) aka. L.I.F.E.

Who else is just tired of the nonsense of the world? By non-sense, I mean the non sensical system that we are slaves to that feeds off of us... the entire global financial system. I'd like to find a way to live outside of it, maybe plant a seed to change it someday. Could it be possible if some of us started to exclusively live off the land? " When the tao is lost, there is goodness. When goodness is lost, there is morality. When morality is lost, there is ritual. Ritual is the husk of true faith, the beginning of chaos."

I suppose my little post sparked some good conversations and points of view... That is a start. The nature of how money, or trade of value, has shaped the world is undeniable of course and to a certain extent a system that does reflect some aspect of what it means to be alive and be an individual... everyone values things differently. I just don't like the fact of how large of an influence the shifting and trade in value ( exchange of money ) the world over has and will most likely continue to exude which in effect mostly serves to keep people down and under it's almost tyrannical nature - ( working to be able to trade ) I don't like how if people have no money they are seen as worthless, or if people don't aspire to attain vast sums of money they end up being seen as "losers". The great big game of the world is obviously the attainment of property and means to influence the world around oneself, I'm just tired of having to see through it all the time everywhere, feeling like I'm living in it as a part of a game I hate playing and one that I don't agree with. Wishing that the human species would wake up out of it's own systematized mess of itself... I suppose the real problem to treat is the basic fact that rich people just don't care about normal working people or poor people, rich people treat the rest of us like we are their servants.

...just want to clarify. Im not looking to save the world by any means... just to live in it differently free of the ills of civilization.

Thanks everyone.

I totally have seen that episode! It's hilarious!!!! Hahahaha

...I don't know about not having souls... but in Robert monroe's books on out of body experiences he writes about his experiences with beings from different levels of conscious existence, and how some of them choose to be incarnated as humans. He also claims that some people are such incarnated beings and they are living their first life as a human. ... regardless of the terminology from sect to sect and tradition to tradition, what everyone does possess is consciousness in some form. Not all beings may have a similar inner structure as others do, being a mediating body for their spirit (consciousness)... which is what is commonly called the astral body, or transformable spirit... ... but if they are incarnated as a human, how else could they exist in human form?

Hey - why are you such a hindu? Hey - how come you define experiences as mistakes?... as if there is some perfect way to live life... life itself proves entirely the opposite. There are no mistakes, only choices. Hey - why don't you come off your high horse and stop spreading your beliefs as infallible. Where might I ask did you acquire this information that you so absolutely believe in? ...Sounds to me like all you've done is read a bunch of hindu philosophy and spewn it online.

...I would never call myself a master... but I have affected the physical plane through thoughts. If you would like to discuss please message me... just wanted you to know that it is possible. Thinking things does carry energy, and when it is paired with visualization it carries even more.... it is an exact science, it is not a superstition.

Ezekiel 25:17- " The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyrannies of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and goodwill sheperd's the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truely his brothers keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers, and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee." " Let him seek, until he finds." - JC " It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of god." - JC " As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another. " _ Proverbs

...My thoughts exactly. Which is why I feel intellectual explanations will never fulfill our real yearning. Hence, the ability to venture into states of mind and develop oneself are almost necessary to be able to understand things at a deeper level than the physical realm... Often I find my mind likes to cling to truths, which is all well and good, but there are so many truths... it's almost as if the mind cannot grasp all of them at only point in time... but it is important to remember the ones that we can truely embrace and that are easy to understand and use, morality, facts of science, etc. etc. The great nature of existence is always kinda on my mind...

I agree in asking the same question. I believe different people are more fond of different types of information...hence the piecemeal history of religious and mystical thought throughout time. It's purely an intellectual and historical hobby of mine...I like to be aware up to a point that I feel comfortable with. Studying religions and spiritual traditions is like learning different languages....some express some things in a way that suits me more so than others at different times. Ultimately, none of them really contain a full explanation... the universe is extremely vast and I have experienced things that are quite strange. I think quantum theory and string theory are in the right direction when it comes to formulating a universal theory of existence. But the real question, I believe we all instinctively feel the need to understand, is always lingering there, why? Why existence? Why us? Why are we here ? Everyone kinda goes through the religions at some point to see if any of those answers can be found there... or so it seems...

...here is basically what the influences of the bible are, it's a mix: -judaism belief -egpytian culture and deification of the sun ( amun ) -greek myths and beliefs -apocalyptic cults -astrologic metaphor of the zodiac in the new testament ( the apocalyptic, crucifixon, etc. of the sun ) -- basically the entire new testament is a metaphor to the zodiac and the paths that the sun takes, which is why there are 12 disciples ( 12 signs of the zodiac ) and God's son, or sun... is the one who everyone follows. Due to new knowledge gained by people of course through time and because it was smart to alter the beliefs of people for political reasons... -stories by people -recommendations by people spoken word of mouth of all these cultural traditions prior to being subscribed to written language, ( Jesus did not write anything down, etc. ) ...it's just like any group of teachings outside the realm of science. All religions are an amalgamation of information expressed through the lens of what people could understand and believed to be important. Just like buddhism is basically hinduism without some information, hinduism is basically a celebration of man and existence as taught by seers and ascetics from tribal times, taoism was originally a philosophy and science which was then formed into a religion... Christianity, judaism, and islam are the same in that they are pieces of information. The big difference between the western and eastern religions is perception and myth. Eastern religions tend to be focused on discovering the true essence of ourselves and reality to bring about a certain peace of mind to ourselves and to the world we live in, where as western religions are focused on worship of overlords and seek to control people through fear to bring about an ordered society that does not contend with itself...so that people can live together and happily that way. Western religions tend to be mythical and constantly assert a "deity". Eastern religions perceive life as it is, and suggest each person does the same, without to much emphasis on a "deity"... albeit is existent in them somewhat.

... back to not mis-translating... it's not possible to even do that, because the original messages were mis-translated and re-interpreted from the hellenist jews to the ptomely greeks... the greeks wrote the bible with a large influence from their culture, and from the egyptians...( egypt, and egyptians are greek words...). ...anyway, to reflect a common thought - it's not even important to try to. Much more important to understand things for oneself. I believe in noble character conduct, but damnet sometimes I get really pissed. Society and it's ills are basically the greatest obstacle I have dealt with in refining my character, it's a shame, but it's true. We don't really live in a society, we live much more in a master-slave , master-warrior, death-life dichotomy. ...Which is probably why monks, and convents and all religious orders and movements don't care about the world or what happens in it... it's all too stupid and full of ego's, nonsense, ignobility, greed, and pettiness. ...and this master-slave dichotomy brought largely upon the world by western religions, sadly... praying to the gods and all that bullshit.

hmmm. interesting. where is your thread?

...I am somewhat interested in the bible... I have heard that there are many older versions of the Bible, probably lost to history... What is basically agreed upon by a lot of people, is that the bible was altered for political reasons throughout time to control populations, of course as evidenced by the entire roman civilization... As a historical document, I think the bible has some authenticity in leading one to ponder existence, and this is one aspect of being an aware individual. However, it doesn't offer much else besides metaphorical stories and endlessly translated passages that people wrote down because they thought that it was important. ...the only real value the bible ever had to me was the simple assertion that God exists and that our actions matter and determine our life experience, and that considering others and how we treat them does have a tendency to affect our lives... ...But there is no real meditation type of aspect to it, no information to really "develop" oneself with... which is what I was more or less interested in. It's mostly time based stories of the cultures of antiquity, and metaphors for basic conduct, with prophecies that have no basis in our current way of life... the book of revelation etc. etc.

Back onto the transformation ( re-configuration ) idea: Check out this website: http://cymaticsource.com/