Jadespear

...I would love to read your research into this field. Tonality may be defined differently, but it is quite undeniable that rhythm is always felt the same. ...would also love to understand why you describe western music as being based on a materialistic definiton.... I suppose you are saying that mathematical ratios and proportions are "materialistic".... because that is what I understand it to be based on. ...all organized music ( not random sounds ), is based on mathematical ratios... so I don't see how one is materialistic more so than any other...

... i would love to hear anyone try to argue against the laws of physics. All I would have to do would be to prove that by doing so they are simply proving my point. Just because existence can be influenced through one's intent, doesn't mean that "reality" is unreal or even "presented" to oneself. The cause and effect law of karma is what is the force that governs the entire created universe. It does not work or operate in a way that one can avoid or bypass. If you are alive and thinking and speaking and existing, then you are subject to the laws of existence to exist. Ancient arguments as translated through time lose their meaning through subjective interpretation... it is quite hard to translate conceptual and literal meaning from ancient cultures. ...doesn't matter to me though, as the language of science supercedes all of them and does not depend on interpretation.

The world is not presented to me... the world of the actual physical existence is an objective one. It is impossible to argue this any other way; the laws of physics and nature do not depend on your own point of view to operate. Colors are not a fabrication of my sight mechanism, colors exist on the physical level as colors due to the nature of what they are and how they come to be, red is red, green is green. " consider whether it matters if your experience of life is not real..." ? WTF are you trying to say... this is obviously a dumb question. Of course my experience of life is real, it's just like the fact that it is real that you asked such a dumb reflective question. "Unreal world"... what are you even talking about... ALL these words and mental mind games about how to describe what is, serve the only purpose of sharpening one's real perception, which can only be validated by the past or the present. If something happened, it did, you can't change it - that's real. What is happening now, is in flux - that's real. What will happen in the future is unknown - that's real.

funny how the concept of real has to do with so many things, but that in the end everyone is talking about subjectivity. The eternal tao is real and constant The created world is real and changes Existence is perceived through flows of consciousness states of mind and open choice-less impersonal awareness One's experience of all these aforementioned things in real The whole illusion concept is actually misleading and stupid, perhaps our western lexicon misses the root meaning of where this concept came from... but from my point of view trying to recognize illusion from reality is pretty easy... things that people believe that are not in line with what is actually real - are illusions, falsehoods, and wrong knowledge. Such as statements like " the earth is flat ". No - it only appears that way from a certain point of view, hence that statement is an illusion. Obviously the world is spherical. So, stating that the entire world is an illusion is also wrong and stupid... at least from my point of view. Where does one go with this statement? What could ever be learned from beginning with this mindset? If you believe nothing is actually real, then you are actually a nihilist - someone who believes in nothing, stands for nothing, and is absolutely nothing. Then you become nothing, your existence means nothing, simply because you have bought into the stupid idea of " illusion "....

Ok. Thank you. That whole way of juxtaposing opposite words to express a paradoxical meaning is a zen buddhist type of prose, isn't it? It's not a classic taoist way of writing in my understanding... too often buddhist ideals mix with taoist ones...

While every spirit is its own, and has freewill, there is an end to understanding the nature of that. Rules as you speak of seem to sound like tradition and hierarchical formulation. Those are not the conditions of existence I speak of. I agree that some rules of society and even personal conceptual thought are to be transcended. But, Taoism is not about disharmony with immutable universal law and principle. It is about the exact opposite. While endless intellectual debate is entertaining, it also has an end. Taoism is rooted in the understanding of the Tao and the embracing of the truth of what that is. If you think going against “the heavens” is a wise idea... than go ahead and do that and see how far you go. What you will eventually discover is that you really can’t , unless you choose the path of abnormality and ridiculous ego driven insanity, as do all rebellious spirits that forsake the true Tao. That path is long, sad, and hard and based in blatant ignorance. Ignorance as in ignoring truth in light of what you like to believe. “ the will of heaven cannot be overturned” - Liao Sifu- “ magus of Java.

...a will, is an aspect of a consciousness. Consciousness is continually in flux... impermanent. It does not matter what you think you can achieve or hope to dream..... you are like all of us; subject to conditions of existence. A far greater goal for you would be to inquire into what existence actually is, how it behaves, and how your being relates to it, that way you may be able to understand if you could ever exist with your "will" outside of it. As to aspects of what a "will" is - I have only found two types, my own and everyone else's, and the will of the universe....

Uselis, i just did a bit of further research into this condition you have, and what it seems like you have actually done is lodged what is called the generative force of your qi into a psychic center in your brain... which explains why you only feel electric and have low feelings... your brain is actually burning energy continuously because you've stuck it somehow somewhere in your head. I don't know how to dislodge it, but I would suggest speaking with a Taoist healer like mantak chia or someone of that level of training... your condition sounds like it will not get any better until you find someone like that to help you. In the meantime I would suggest eating lots of heavy yin foods to draw that energy out of your head... like cold fish, bananas, white rice, cold spices, in short no more hot and spicy foods, more salty and sour foods.

What is meant by the attainment of the tao? ...

Thank you all for your input.

Hello Uselis, I would suggest attempting to return the elements of what you, you back into balance. There are basically 3 things that I think you need to do and none of them can be overlooked. You need to restore physical balance, emotional balance, and mental balance. There is a way to do this through a hermetic meditation that I have learned... and since you are now very good at concentrating this might help you... The 4 elements of earth, water, air, and fire are principles that run through every single aspect of yourself and they have specific places in the human body, soul, and spirit where they are naturally supposed to be... you need to restore that balance in yourself. The earth element can be thought of as a color - brown or black, and it's quality is heaviness, its place is in the lower portion of your body, basically in your legs. Focus on that area of your body as being brown and heavy. The next element, the water element is blue, and it's quality is flowing and calming, it's area in your body is in your belly area up to your lungs. Focus on that area next and stack it on top of the earth element, while attempting to retain both of these qualities at the same time. Next, focus on the air element, which color is green, and has a light and serene quality. The area of this element is your chest and it is related to your heart. Do the same thing with the visualization exercise for this element and stack it on top of the brown earth, the blue water to retain the 3 qualities of rootedness ( heaviness ), calm and cool flow, and serenity. Finally, focus on the fire element, whose color is red and is whose quality is expansiveness and outgoing. The area of the fire element is the head. Focus on your head space around being red. And stack it on top of the other 3 elements, for a total of 4 qualities being basically - heaviness, calmness or contraction, lightness or serenity, and heat. This style of meditation helps to purposefully put the elements back into the state where they act positively for you and not against you. I think what also might be on your mind is the fact that you feel you have made a discovery of worth and are having a hard time letting it go.... I would just forget about all your pains really and move on with life in some kind of positive way. I would begin to have a goal- like chopping down a tree or something... and please do not remain celibate because it is entirely unnatural. People are engineered to be people which means they have emotions, urges, instincts, and curiosities... you have placed yourself in a negative state by neglecting the roots of what you are basically engineered to do. I would no longer even try to do anything except heal yourself through restoring balance to yourself with slow intake of food, slow intake of what used to make you happy, and slow intake of new experiences. ...Also you can find a better description of that type of meditation in a book called, " Initiation Into Hermetics" by Franz Bardon. I learned it there.

Has anyone experience in Vipsanna Mediation? The way of pure insight.... seeing things as they truely are?

the world as an illusion does not just refer to out physical world, this concept also extends to the astral world, and the mental world... Ancient cultures had a different definition for what they defined as "real" or "true". "real" and "true" to them meant something that did not change.... something that was always there, something that could not ever be broken, something that was fundamental all the time... ... Therefore the concept of reality as an illusion could not be too far from their definiton of it that way, because in truth the entire phenomenal world of everything in every place of everywhere changes - all phenomenon are in flux because all phenomenon are actually the resultant appearances (physical form) of elemental constructive vibrations that are empowered to create themselves based upon a conscious beings intent, awareness, emotion, and belief - that comes from within themselves and shows itself in an outer way through conscious perception. ...the only "real" thing that is not an illusion to ancient people is what is unchangeable...what is always there. ...so what is that? -------------- : ----- ) The empty awareness that is working through you and the entire fabric of all existence.

...I think "spirituality" really means basically two things: 1. The search for truth 2. How we explain existence and how we relate to it ...every "tradition" has something of either one or both of those subjects...

To fully answer a question such as this, a real look at what words are, should be undertaken, for spirituality is just a word to describe something... Words are symbolic. As symbols, they contain power, a kind of mirror like quality that captures and reflects what something appears to be and what something actually is. Which is why a perfect square represents a balance of forces, a triangle represents anything with only 3 sides... etc. Words are a little more complex, because they have an origin that once determined what the meaning of the word was, but they change over time. So naturally spirituality once meant one thing and now means another... But, in short the word spirituality simply refers to one's spirit and all of the knowledge of it and how it behaves and how it is related to everything in existence. Hence, why people say things like.... from a "spiritual" point of view, etc. Mostly these days everyone thinks of spirituality as being associated with the God concept or religion... ...what spirituality really means will be different for everyone at different times throughout the entire course of existence, simply because it is a word which has a meaning that will change... But, this all points to the deeper question..... of---- why is it important?

Yes- post world war 2 innovation has fueled and changed our food habits. It is basically driven by greed which is caused by capitalism. Both of which are unhealthy from a holistic perspective. The greatest threat to public health is un sustainable economic system, it's too bad that greed runs the world through fear based living. And that people value the quantity of their lives more than the quality.

Don't know if anyone had thought anymore about this... but I did. I think what is referred to as the rainbow body is the result of a trained process of achieving a harmony, balance, and eventual absorption of the 5 essences, principles, or frequencies of light that correspond to the classical elements of ether, fire, air, water, and earth from their physical expression back into their basis and inherent nature of uncreated or clear light of awareness of our basic spiritual constitution. In short... dissolving our consciousness back into its source through willful transmutation or action. I dont know really... just an attempt.

Don't know if anyone had thought anymore about this... but I did. I think what is referred to as the rainbow body is the result of a trained process of achieving a harmony, balance, and eventual absorption of the 5 essences, principles, or frequencies of light that correspond to the classical elements of ether, fire, air, water, and earth from their physical expression back into their basis and inherent nature of uncreated or clear light of awareness of our basic spiritual constitution. In short... dissolving our consciousness back into its source through willful transmutation or action. I dont know really... just an attempt.

Hello everyone, I am wondering if there are other people who have experienced what I have experienced in terms of what I think is called Self realization. I became interested in pursuing understanding the truth of god's existence awhile back, and in doing so - read through a book called " The man who saw god ". In the book, a man describes where the phenomenon that we call (god) is actually located and how to approach it. Apparently god is in the middle of everything, or center, and through mental and emotional stillness it can be perceived. So I tried to still my mind and emotions fora long time, and I eventually did still them so much, that I would become totally aware of many things. But, one day when I was doing kneeled sun salutation type yoga poses, I spontaneously focused all of my mental power. not thoughts, but my awareness, or my direction of perception inwards. In the instant that I did this, my mind went totally blank, a blackness within became exposed... and then a super luminous sphere of light radiating super powerful vibrations arose from the bottom of what was I seeing. This super vibrational power sphere was so powerful that I felt the need to look away because I did not know what it was or if it was actually something physical, because I was still able to see it with my awareness. I think the hindus refer to this as the atman... or the "god" within us. Has anyone else experienced something similar? I am just curious to know if there is anyone else out there whom I can speak with about this experience... that are not dogmatic religious people of any kind, but honest and sincere seekers of truth. And lately, I have been focusing on it, " the atman" ; throughout my life... and feel that I am reaching the states the buddhist's call "nibbana"... or the occultists call " ecstasy" every once in awhile... as my awareness shifts in and out of the inner world and outer world. These experiences are super awesome and totally fulfilling. Just curious if there are others out there. Please let me know. Thanks.

@Nungali Excellent. Thank you for sharing the info. The principle of infinite expansion... sounds exactly like what it felt like. Oh man, its pretty amazing. Taking this conversation to another point... have you ever noticed how we seemingly re-create our reality, by virtue of this expansive force? I have not directly seen it's mechanics working, but I have spontaneously re-created physical matter through virtue of charged meridians, an open mind receiving in information.. or energy patterns, and instant connection. So, we actually do, I believe, re-create the world through the way our consciousness works...its like we are a mirror and an emitter at the same time.. and so the physical world is as well... doing the same thing to us... we are both re-creating each other based upon the perception of the present moment that never ends... unless we move out of time-space sequence.

@Daemon - yes that would be nice to explore. I live in San Francisco, CA. I don't really have any needs... except to meet like minded people who also love this wonderful experience of existing as we really are.

David G - Thank you so much for sharing your experience. Yes - I at one moment in time experienced a similar flash of "quantum" awareness... where I felt like I was experiencing the weight of existence ( literally ) from where is was observing from. Accompanying this heavyness, was like a super sound and flashing of lights, etc. It happened very fast... and the experience was a little overwhelming. They say, the love of the divine is the most powerful thing in existence for one to experience, and I believe it is true. I think the more we practice enjoying it... the easier it becomes in deeper doses or concentrated focus.

To Stovepipe - there is a passage in the tao te ching about "magical" or " supernatural" abilites... these phenomenon are simply a fact of existence just like anything else, and there is also reference to the "use" of the "tao" 4: The tao is so vast that when you use it, something is always left. How deep it is! 35: When the tao appears from it's opening, it is so subtle, it has no taste. Look at it, you cannot see it. Listen, you cannot hear it. Use it. You cannot exhaust it. Lao Tse also offers another nice suggestion regarding "magic": 38: Occult abilities are just flowers of the Tao, and the beginning of foolishness. Therefore the master dwells in the substantial And not in the superficial. Rests in the fruit and not in the flower. So let go of that and grasp this. Truth be told - in my opinion the development of understanding and approaching the mystery of the Tao through specific meditational practices causes one to become aware of types of magical abilities... it's entirely natural to happen. The hindus also revere the attainment of such realizations along their path to the Tao. Everyone who honestly pursues the truth will most likely come across such phenomenon. What is important to realize is that these types of abilities arise as side effects of their approach, they are not the goal. The goal is whatever you choose, but there is an objective realization to occur. However, these types of abilities can be used for good or evil, just like anything else. And eventually, if a person develops themselves enough the use of these magical abilities will in some cases become necessary to do good and help others when there is no other way of doing so.... like when the Buddha transfixed his entourage across a river to save them from dying, or when Jesus healed the guard's ear instantly that his disciple Peter cut off., etc. etc. etc. So in essence, there is a time and place for the use of such abilities...masters use them all of the time to help the world. Be forewarned, the ears of the universe hear everything, and your life will take directions according to what is placed in your path or what you intend to do. If you seek only power for yourself, divine providence will influence your life and direct it another way. Once you reach a certain point in your development, all of your "learned opinions" will diminish and disappear. But to conclude, the development of magical abilities is super awesome and the divine right of every human being, anyone can develop them and use them accordingly. Furthermore, The spiritual path to the divine is a path marked with the same milestones for everyone, it's the path of the absolute truth of existence. Taoism, Buddhism, Hindusim, etc. are all just systems of thought.... not the path itself. For Lao Tse remarks on it: "The tao that can be followed is not the Eternal Tao."

Hello, I am wondering where to begin on understandings the basics of yin yang energy flow, like where does it come from, where does it go, in what order, etc. etc. etc. I have felt both the energies move within me, but I would like to delve deeper and understand their natures truthfully. Please let me know if anyone can point me in the right direction in a simple way...

...is anyone aware, that one of the big reasons Krishnamurtis dissolved the order of the star; is because - his brother was deathly ill for a very long time, and the "invisible masters" of the order of the star promised that his brother would live... his brother died, and shortly after Krishnamurti disbanded the order entirely. The order that from a very young age had supported his entire life. It's pretty clear to me what happened. Krishnamurti was propped up to a certain a degree to fulfill false and fraudulent predatory prophecies to the masses, he knew this... but went along anyway... until the promises from his superiors proved false in the fact of his brothers passing... he could no longer trust such an organization and was already popular enough to strike out on his own to make a name for himself as a lecturing philosopher.