Mal

It seems chapter 3 is saying we should not antagonize each other, as division is conary to the nature of the Tao... To embrace all things is extremly dificult, and socity does not teach us this at all. Instead we are rewarded for striving for goals and to take pleasure in our achivement, leading to the "duality" of displeasure when we experience "failure". There is a friction between the "intergral way" and "socities way" and going with the flow, attaining "harmonious oneness of all things" highlites the "artificial ness" of "socities game" But I think we need to be able to play that game to the extent required to live "within socity"

I'd be waiting till you changed your mind again

There is a bit of a "trick" that can help with this one (although it's explained in the following verses) As there is no separateness how could one be more or less deserving than another? We do not need to make a value judgement, we just help without reservation.

I've been waiting for this one The ESSENTIAL practice, invaluable advice (I use to read this over and over when moderating TTB) If you only do one thing do this, it's often very challenging and you can often really question the value of attempting this. But transforms your life and brings harmony and happiness IME.

It's K like Kuan Lin... and you should have got her digits by now dude

It's nice to hear the voices of people I've only read. Thanks for sharing.

^ we can't always help.

Thanks TM (sounds like a good book too) Perhaps the perspective is due to our different backgrounds? (I reluctantly start out with this as I see most misunderstandings starting out with one person making a statement about what the other person thinks or is saying ) You are a "Taoist" taught by lineage masters. You have a deep understainding of "nature / the world" Also you know the very specific meanings of taoist terminology. For me, I'm much more a new age hippy. My teachers would not call themselves "Taoist" I have some understainding of "nature / the world" and little understainding of traditional taoist language. Eg "Qi" for me is that Ki stuff I first heard about because I was interested in Japanese Martial arts that turned out to be the same as Chi when I researched further into Chinese martial arts. But "qi" was really only "explained" by my Sifu via instruction in Tai Chi and Kung Fu (and now it seems like it might be labeled as prana in yoga) So when I read, to use Thomas Cleary as an example ( ) Vitality, Energy, Spirit that is actually easier for me to "understand" than Jing, Qi, Shen. I have a western ocult background, energy rays for me is another name I could add to my "Qi/Ki/Chi/Prana" list. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. But names are very useful when people want to talk about the same "thing" and it's confusing when different names are used to explan the same thing or (more common) the same name means different things to different people. I hit this quote on an amazon review for Ni's book http://www.amazon.co...ds=Hua Hu Ching I seem to like inexactness, it makes the text more like a Rorschach test. When I read the 1st 10 http://www.cheraglib...ua-hu-ching.htm I don't see anything "incorrect" I do note "Over many lifetimes the burden of contaminations can become great.-in 4" which I would label as a Buddhist idea rather than Taoist as I can't recall Taoist talking about reincarnation. But I wouldn't say it's incorrect.

I'm not sure it matters if the master was "the old master" (aside from the book telling us that we are reading his words) any "master" would do. I don't want to exclude/devalue being self taught or looking within yourself for answers (as inside is often the correct place to look) but I can't escape the fact that I feel I've progressed most when under the guidance of a teacher. p.s. I love how this new site notifies you of new posts while you are writing

All cool, I didn't write the matrix script ;-) I was just reminded of cypher wanting to get back in (a feeling I know I've had) to go back to enjoying the illusion, without remembering that his enjoyment is also an illusion.

Is there a meaning?

I like the "pre requisits". The importance of taking joy from what you are doing, from being of service. When you have done that look after your body. Able to do that as well? Got some time left? O.K. turn to the "master" for "instruction" Who or what is the master? We have all walked a path to get to where we are now in our lifes. Most of us are/were searching, who (or where) do we turn to for help? Outside we have parents, friends, teachers, roll models. There is nature, the world itself. Inside we have ourself, We look to the experienced to guide our way, or we use our own experiences and observations to guide us.

I know this steak doesn't exist. And I know that the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After 9 years, you know what I have learned? Ignorance is bliss.

Thanks dawei, I look forward to reading that.

Vmarco I really liked your post, espicially this

Lovely And it's not a "science" either (which if often used as the balancing duality to religion) We do not need to investigate, understand, label, and quantify practices. It’s the “doing” that’s important. Personally I always tried to teach myself … yet it was with the guidance of teachers where I have made greatest progress.

I had not noticed that description before, pretty cool. Patanjali said that “Yoga is Union: Union of the Individual Self with the Universal Self” But how to achieve the 8 limbs that lead to this union? As Sri. K. Pattabhi Jois taught, simply “do your practice and all is coming” You practice Yama (the five restraints) Niyama (the five observances) and Asana (the postures). Over (much) time you will develop Pranayama (restraining the life force through breath work), Pratyahara (sense withdrawal), Dharana (concentration), Dyana (meditation) and Samadhi. You might like Scott Sonnon's practices like Flow Fit or Being Breathed. While some Yoga classes are not far removed from gymnastics the complete systems will/should be spiritual IMO. I might comment about injuries as Ashtanga tends to be known as a hard/difficult yoga (or a yoga for 12 year old boys) My practice looks NOTHING like my class mates as they mostly have a year (or more) experience and it takes a lot of practice to achieve that effortless movement. Some days I can’t even do sun salutations and keep my breathing steady! Given that, trying to push myself through the full series of primary asana would be ... rather silly. Most yoga classes are lead classes where everyone tries to do the same asana (often with easier variations mentioned as an afterthought) Ashtanga has what they call a mysore practice which is basically individuals practicing together. You do your practice, the teacher adjusts you and gives you the next posture when you are ready. This builds great familiarity with what you body is capable of and where your limits are. It’s also nice and quite with just the sounds of people breathing together The downside is that progress is slow (some teachers are very traditional and will only give the asanas in the traditional order) Since everyone had trouble with at least some postures people get “stuck” and when pushing to achieve an asana it’s easy to loose focus on breathing which increases the chance of injury. I have more trouble at seminars, iyengar yoga or lead classes encountering “new” postures where I’m not familiar with my limits.

To “know” simply take joy in doing your work and looking after your bodies needs. With that done ask your teacher what to do next

I feel the teacher is MORE important than the "art" even though where my yoga practice currently is, I only have contact with my teacher 2 or 3 times a month rather than 6 times a week. I could if I wanted, but it would not be of great benefit just yet and I personally prefer solo practice (although I do enjoy the group energy of a class too) Go to a class and see how it makes YOU feel (it's always normal to feel a bit nervous with new environments) Do you like it? Do you want to go back again? Look at the teacher and ask yourself "Do I want to be like this person?" Look at the students, are they becoming like the teacher? Are they happy and healthy? How long have they been practicing? .... o.k since you asked A B C have a look at Ashtanga http://kpjayi.org/ you might like it too I've enjoyed Knoff yoga (good local teacher) www.knoffyoga.com/ I know many like Yin Yoga but I have not tried a class. Hatha and Iyengar yoga were not for me the times I have tried them. All the best for the New Year.

Hua Hu Ching If we ever finish the 40 verses (no rush it's heavy going sometimes) I'd like to work through this one Link posted for reference

Wow 2013 and it's still in the small pile of treasured books beside my bed ! ... not to be confused with the 3 (larger) piles of "looks interesting must read it" and countless piles of books that are trying to get off the floor and find a home in the bookshelfs

I have this http://www.mindfold.com/ as you don't have anything touching your eyelids. Was ocasionally usefull (more comfortable than cheap travel masks) but I have not used for a few years.

Look at that ... 2013 ! Happy New Year

Hey Mantis, Been thinking about this for a few days. I've no experience with ayahuasca. How to heal depression ... loving kindness meditation comes to mind, but I like that for a lot of reasons. Also it seem that a lot of us feel depressed? I know I have/do and probably will in the future too. I can't say I know why or how to fix it. I just don't think "normal" socity is particually "healthy" and as we move along our path it just seem to become more and more obvious ... Anyhow just read this on facebook from a writer known for his advocacy of psychedelic drugs, perhaps it will give solace.

Some TTB's may know the Creative Generalist featured here http://thecolorco.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/alli-crawford-sean-omlor.html