KenBrace

There's nothing wrong with a tightly moderated community. It's ok for a Christian forum to ban atheists who are against the grain of the community. This is Sean's site. So if he says that the Mo Pai group doesn't create the sort of community that he wants then I see no problem with him kicking us out. He has the right to do that. But it's different when members who do not own the site, work their way into moderator positions and then bend the rules to ban the people who disagree with them.

Sums things up how? It's a forum for serious neigong/mopai enthusiasts who value objective evidence and critical thinking to back up their practices. People who demonstrate a lack of critical thinking skills or disregard the need for evidence are asked to leave. I don't like having to do this but I really don't see any other option. If the forum isn't moderated in this way then it will turn into a different sort of community than we have in mind. That's the main reason I started the Qigong Forum. I want to have another similar community where everyone is welcome. That way if someone doesn't fit in at the Neigong Forum then they have another place they can go. I've also designed the site to fit the interests of most people in the spiritual community better.

So what you are saying is that MPG fed lines to me, which I posted, and then he immediately replied to them on MPD? How about... I expressed my opinion and then MPG (who follows these threads) posted his opinion on MPD?

If I am not mistaken level 2b is only done in a seated meditation. It's like level one. Maybe he did make it to 2b. All I know about Kosta is that he made it to level 2. I'm not sure which stage of level 2 that was.

That might be level 2b you are talking about. I'm not entirely sure.

I'm not entirely sure but this is what I've always understood to be the case.

A lot of your posts are very similar to Brian's. Are you Brian's puppet? Or perhaps Brian is your puppet?

I know that the majority here does not believe that the moderation on TDBs is biased but please consider this. Back a couple years ago I posted something in a Stillness Movement thread. It wasn't a direct, personal insult or anything. It was a joke about SM. I forget exactly what I said but it was something like... "Will any prostate massages be given?". There was some sort of video we had seen where Lomax was doing some sort of treatment on a student and at one point it looked like a prostate massage. It was pretty funny to be honest. It was tossed around on Mo Pai Debate a lot as a joke. Well, anyway I posted that joke in a SM thread and was immediately PMed by like two mods telling me to edit the post ASAP. Brian, who was a mod at the time (is he still?), quickly told me in the thread to change the post or I'd get suspended. Ok, so perhaps I was in the wrong on that one. Posting a crude joke like that in a serious thread about a SM seminar wasn't really appropriate. But here's the catch. If people post the same kind of stuff in a Mo Pai thread then no one seems to care. People can throw around jokes about wires up the ass, tell people to ignore us since we're ignorant, etc. and no one bats an eye. Is this not a double standard? Neikung should have received the same sort of fast rebuke that I did in the SM thread. He should have been told that his post was inappropriate like I was. Then he should have been told to remove the insult like I was. Finally, if he refused to edit his post then he should be suspended like I would have been had I not cooperated.

I honestly don't see why we can't come to a comprimise here. The only reason stuff like this starts is because some of the members here post derogatory/condescending remarks about our community in Mo Pai threads. Some newbie pops up here and asks for help regarding Mo Pai. Nothing wrong with that. Wells and I might stop by the thread to offer our $0.02 in a sincere attempt to help the person. You guys are free to do the same. If you don't think that Mo Pai is a valid path then there's nothing wrong with expressing this opinion. But that's not usually what happens. Typically certain members here who have a grudge against us will jump at the opportunity to slander our group. Stuff like this... That post is what started this whole thing. Posts like that almost always occur in Mo Pai threads here. What are the members here hoping to accomplish? Do they enjoy 100 page Mo Pai flame wars? In the above post Neikung was essentially calling us out. Is it really that surprising that we would hop in to defend ourselves? The solution here is to simply avoid condescending posts like that. Don't drag western Mo Pai and it's enthusiasts through the dirt. If this were enforced then debates like this would not occur.

But Jim doesn't have to understand the purpose behind MaBu to teach it. If he was taught to practice MaBu then why wouldn't he teach it to his students? Whether or not he understood it is irrelevant.

I suppose there is a chance you are right. But I would think that Jim and Kosta would do their best to teach their students exactly what they were taught themselves. If Chang made them stand in MaBu then I don't see any reason why Jim wouldn't do the same with his students. Even if he didn't understand the reason he would still realize that it's a required aspect of the training. It is my understanding that MaBu is not a requirement but rather a helpful supplement. If it were absolutely required then it would have been strictly taught and emphasized by Chang to to Jim and Jim to his students.

I don't really understand what you're saying. So Jim practiced real Mo Pai but his students don't? Are you saying that Jim passed on incorrect instructions to his students?

Where does this information come from? Jim made it to level 3. He was tested and he passed. How is this not real Mo Pai?

Yes, the Earth is very much a rough object. Not flat planets in this solar system.

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He quite because John Chang kicked him out.

I second this post. I'd really like to know the answers to the above questions.

Which member are you referring to exactly?

Well yes, this is understandable. The teacher needs to makes sure that the student is staying true to the correct method. But that doesn't mean that you MUST have a teacher to practice the method. Just be cautious and make sure that follow the instructions carefully. If Jim did this then Chang wouldn't need to critique his method and get him back on the right path, because he would have stayed on the right path. If we do this then there's no reason for Chang to critique our method regularly either.

After providing the instructions, the only John really did was gauge Jim's progress every so often. The training doesn't require that you be constantly monitored by a teacher.

Yes, there is a chance that you can hurt yourself in Mo Pai. The only way to stop this is to be cautious and follow the instructions carefully. Pretty much any notable accomplishment in life requires some sort of risk. Mo Pai is no exception. But a legit method that involves risk is still better than a phony method that accomplishes very little or nothing at all.

What's are some of the most interesting experiences you've had during meditation, OBE, etc.? I'm very interested to hear some of the them!

MPG and EOBARD_WELLS don't see eye to eye when it comes to certain systems but I've never seen any nasty words. It has always been a straight-forward, logic-oriented debate with both sides making good points. That's how things should be. I've also had debates with both MPG and EW but once again there was never personal strife. Only an exchange of ideas and facts and an attempt to find the truth of the matter.

Sure, maybe he is lying. But like I've stated it's really not possible to know either way. There's no reason to get all wrapped up. His claim means nothing until he provides evidence to prove what he says. Just leave it at that.