Yae

What is the point of speaking like this? Eh ok I guess you're sort of just teasing.

Lol this sounds like me. I don't think I work that way (speaking to a wide variety of topics in a detailed way), I just intuitively filter through things and look for words that come up as gold (complete approach that aims for the depths of truth like experientially returning to the state of Tao oneness), like (Qigong Master) Chunyi Lin's teachings. I'm just like who do I trust, what do they want me to do, ok let's do it. I think he's really a true alchemist even if his teachings are focused more on healing. Considering he has a story of his heart stopping for 5 minutes, and he's meditated in a cave for multiple months and wants to for a year but is busy healing people, and people have seen his yang body working on his lawn at home when he was in China doing a cave meditation. Not arguing the truth of that, I've validated it enough for myself and don't care to try to convince people. In the case that this is true, could he achieve these things using only post-heaven qi?

No it's not possible. I'm pretty sure this was mentioned many times before. The practice is only transmitted in person, not through writing. I think the member's name is "Alchemist", they wrote an extensive list of what the practice is not. So c'mon look it up and try to crack the riddle with me of what it could possibly be. Right now I'm thinking it's some sort of involuntary movement similar to a qigong branch, except not that at all because I don't think that practice cultivates any sort of LDT. Lol hard riddle. *This is just based on what I've been reading recently in Wu Liu Pai specifically.

Have you really not read any of this being discussed before by opendao and/or golden path or maybe Friend or... forgot the name of the other... no dude why are you winking. I can't explain it so well as an outsider but I think it's a matter of teaching it properly.

Someone heeelp we're stuuck. How do prenatal-Jing/Qi/Shen fit into Ming/Xing? And what are the definitions of prenatal Jing, Qi, and Shen? If they're definable outside of experience? I think Shen means Spirit. But Mind and Spirit are not that closely associated. In Chinese. I think I should stop going by pseudo-fresh memories for now. It's secret because you're not allowed to talk about it to those who don't know it, but it's not secret because you're allowed to learn it if you're physically present.

I don't know where I read it recently, but I think I read that sitting facing the wall for 9 years is a very late-stage Nei Dan practice. But, extended seated practices aren't used until very advanced stages.

"What are those pre-Heaven ones? E.g. pre-H. Shen. How is it different from post-H Shen?" Taoist Texts, I don't know how to answer that entirely but here's part of it: "In Chinese tradition “the battery” is called MING 命, translated as life or destiny. (“How much stamina one has?”). So, this Ming - battery otherwise known as yuanqi 元氣 in traditional Chinese medicine, but in Taoism a different character is used 元炁 - the primordial qi*. It is getting spent. And when it ends, then a "kind" man with a scythe comes. Ming is a tangible real substance and it can be felt, given a perfected sensitivity. Ming can be replenished only by mastering the since Taoist alchemy (just to emphasize that, according to the records of our school, some other traditions also posses such an essentially identical method, ). Note that to "Die" in Chinese is written emphatically: 失命 i.e. LOST MING." So Ming is the primordial/pre-heaven qi. "But apart from Ming there is still another substance. It is located in the chest, and any other spiritual schools strive to perfect it. All of them base their teachings on it. It is called XING 性, which is translated as nature, the nature of the heart. In Chinese it is also called 心性 XIN XING or 本性 BEN XING. All the many methods of meditations and praying, stopping the internal dialogue, etc appeal to this. The mechanism is simple in theory - it is necessary to reduce the vibrations, to remove the waves and gradually reach a full peace. If you will perfect at this even further, then you will go into a stable peace, the breath will go away, the heart will almost stop beating and A Yin spirit YINSHEN will be able to leave of the body. This is what actually called enlightenment in the late Chan Buddhism. In addition, this work may lead to the improvement of specific abilities. This spirit is something that in many cultures is called a ghost. This spirit is identical to the soul that leaves the body at death – which is also called YINSHEN." - Golden Path (TB member) Yeah Idk man. I'd also like clarification there. Cause if ming is the qi then xing can't be the shen and the jing. But maybe they're one and the same to an extent since they all melt into each other. And I think ming would for sure be the pre-heaven Jing if anything. Oh but of course the post-heaven energies are replenished by post-heaven things like food whereas the pre-heaven energies are only replenished by this secret method that's only taught in person. But at least it's available to the public now, should we seek it out.

"The ways of Alchemy and Qigong have very many differences, but the most fundamental difference is that alchemy is the process of reverse perfection, while qigong – is a process of onward perfection. Perfecting the way of alchemy is collection of primordial pre-heaven jing, thereby fulfilling the lost post-heaven jing, restoring the destroyed body, adding oil (tianyu) and prolonging destiny (zeming). The primordial jing is collected for melting and transforming it into qi; using the primordial qi make melting qi and transforming it into shen, then moving farther and melting shen and returning to Emptiness; by melting Emptiness completing Tao. All this leads to the fact that the men who perfect themselves overcome the old age and return to youth, and realizing the reverse perfection become the All-wise. But qigong, by contrast, is unable to collect the primordial jing, and therefore there is no way of reverse perfection; it only possible that a man slightly decreases the loss (continually ongoing), slow decreasing of post-heaven jing, whereby regulating the physiology of their body, achieving the effect of escape from diseases and a small extension of life." (^ reply to joeblast and dawei) Alright... Then what is the opposite of the emptiness? I thought it was analogous to the Tao, the blending of both.

Oh and the Emptiness is actually basically equal parts Yin and Yang right? But Yan Xin said too much focus on the Emptiness can make you too Yin. Common sensically, Emptiness sounds Yin. Void, receptive, cold. But I was preeetty sure the concept is about the two blended, like matter and energy and void and all blending into... Well, some primordial stuff. So why would Yan Xin say that?

ooh dawei nice links thanks. Another difference, Qigong Master Chunyi Lin teaches that in order to activate (or create, I'm not sure) the LDT, you should focus on it at all times. I think effilang said something like this, ~"Step 1: Focus on LDT. Step 2: When you lose focus on the LDT, focus back on the LDT." But yeah I guess Wu Liu Pai Neidan wants nothing to do with that. The one connection that I'm still seeing between the two it, Master Lin is ALL about focusing on the Emptiness, the Divine from which all things came. Which is of course, very pre-heaven/primordial. But the elusive Neidan again sidesteps this, because trying to approach the Emptiness by focusing on it is "approaching perfection", using the post heaven faculties/qi instead of Neidan's "reverse perfection". I think that's it anyway.

She sounds awesome. I was thinking about a point someone raised about the associated issues with applying the teachings of the Tao Te Ching in real life. The best example I know of of someone having clear major success with it is Masanobu Fukuoka, creator of Do-Nothing farming. He wrote a book called The One-Straw Revolution, all about doing as little as possible to the land and getting equal or more yield than his chemical-using neighbors, and more nutritious and better-tasting crops. No-till agriculture, allowing the microbial life to thrive in the soil and do the "tilling" for him, enriching the soil instead of just turning it over and draining its nutrients. Nature would do almost everything for him. The more he learned, the less he did. In Qigong (SFQ), I've heard the active exercises referred to as the "cultivation" of energy, and the sitting meditations that follow as the "harvesting" of qi. So what would be the Do-Nothing Farming of energy practices? Maybe cultivating the post-heaven qi is like addressing the symptoms and not the root of the issue? Of course normally qigong is considered to be the one at the root, and western medicine at the branches. But maybe legit Neidan is the true root?

Naw there's one in Canada. (Vancouver, British Columbia)

"The Master does nothing, yet everything is accomplished." ^Sounds like a hermit who meditates all the time, but maybe a hermit does too much by polarizing to that lifestyle and avoiding society, so maybe the middle way is the true non-doing. [The Master] doesn't glitter like a jewel but lets himself be shaped by the Tao, as rugged and common as stone. -39 ^Doesn't try too hard to be "spiritual" (interpretation up for debate) The Master gives himself up to whatever the moment brings. He knows that he is going to die, and her has nothing left to hold on to: no illusions in his mind, no resistances in his body. He doesn't think about his actions; they flow from the core of his being. He holds nothing back from life; therefore he is ready for death, as a man is ready for sleep after a good day's work. ^Does whatever he does in the tides of the Tao, not necessarily quiet or loud.. Probably somewhere inbetween yeah? "He who is in harmony with the Tao is like a newborn child." ... "It can scream its head off all day, yet it never becomes hoarse, so complete is its harmony." Not quiet^ Never becomes hoarse huh... Not sure what to do with that but cool. Okay this one sounds like a quiet hermit, at least in this translation: Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know. Close your mouth, block off your senses, blunt your sharpness, untie your knots, soften your glare, settle your dust. This is the primal identity. "Therefore the Master says" ... "I let go of religion, and people become serene." ^ I stop trying so hard to be holy, and I become divine (I say divine because at another part it says "Returning to the source is serenity". Source = divinity, serenity = source). "She is pointed, but doesn't pierce. Straightforward, but supple. Radiant, but easy on the eyes." ^ So. It sounds like this is all about going with the flow without judgment. If you feel loud be loud, you won't scar your good pious name. Well yes you will but it's ok. (From a translation by S. Mitchell) I still have no idea what this secret Neidan method could be about, since this translation came across to me as middle way/natural way, and I have no idea how that could lead to immortality. But I do kind of get how it could not be saying "sit and make yourself meditate, and continue to force yourself to do this until you honestly really want to which I can't say for sure will happen." Buut isn't the method about making yourself do something for hours a day too?

Thinking about what this mysterious in-person only Neidan teaching/method could be is like the best riddle ever.

can anyone list the aims/benefits of neidan, to the extent they can be listed and to the extent your experience allows you to list them? opendao said somewhere that cultivating for the next life is unnecessary because you can attain everything in this life, as well as something about being able to affect everything about yourself or something, I took these things at the time to imply that the potential benefits of neidan are endless. Also, Qigong Master Chunyi Lin trained with Yan Xin, Yuanming Zhang, Master Yau (Shaolin), Wang Liping and other Chinese masters he's not allowed to name, and is Chinese, but he teaches qigong. Do you really think he and all of his teachers missed something? Master Lin talks a lot about going into the Emptiness/Divine being the primary goal. That intuitively, idk about accurately, intuitively sounds like prenatal or preheaven? energy, where all of the earthly things come from. But maybe he approaches it from the wrong side, from the postnatal side, and so he'll never actually get there and even in his month long cave meditations he's only spiraled in nature's evolutionary spiral closer and closer to the truth but can never reach it that way? Ugh I wish there were a Neidan school in MN. I'm going to have to ask Master Lin about Xing and Ming, whether his teachings build them. May have to fly in somewhere, but I don't think I've come in contact with enough material to be convinced to. Have like 25 tabs open about it though so may get there. *Edit, actually I may or not have misread a post of Drew Hempel's. I don't know for sure if Chunyi Lin practiced under Wang Liping.

This book just said that the deer crane and tortoise all live 1000 years. ......... Still looks like a cool book and I'm excited to read it. Edit: I was going to delete my useless comment, but realized that considering the vast difference in views among those who argued on the thread it is probably only equally as terrible as the opposition is from the perspective of each side. Live on, my silly self.

My last SO said that she can feel something energetic in her body when a guy ejaculates inside her, and that's why she is into sex... I took that as her actually consciously taking the male's energy.

I dunno if anyone mentioned that celibacy might have a more tangible effect if you also practice mind celibacy. Then you're cutoff for REAL. The Chinese symbol for "qi" also means "no fire". When we stop spending our fire energy on outer sexy things, and turn our focus to our own experience and feelings, and the joyous aspects of them, we nurture and begin to awaken the "governing fire", the internal heat. Someone on taobums has a post about celibacy and the really cool things they experienced with mind celibacy in the equation.

A book I read said that the word for "grains" was the word for "food" suggesting that the writings meant abstaining from food in general. Some things like cinnabar were ingested though to curb hunger or something. I think cinnabar is poisonous but in low quantities it just inflames the digestive tract or something so you don't feel hungry. Ah right, it was "Asceticism In Early Taoist Religion" by Stephen Eskildsen. I was most enchanted by it.

Thirdeyegasm from reading this topic, thanks sexy brains.

I found this to provide some valuable additions to my knowledge about the pineal. Enjoy!

Soos, here is the book I PM'd about. This fellow's similar experiences began after ten years spent focusing on the lower dan-tien during meditation. He'd be so pissed right now Supercharging internal energy with no prior practice, all from bouncing around.. I hope it works for everybody. tranquil_sitting_a_taoist_journal_on_meditation_and_chinese_medical_qi.pdf

The Father - Truth - Upper Dan Tien The Son - Love - Middle Dan Tien The Holy Spirit - Energy - Lower Dan TIen

I like our Lao Tzu fellow, he's got character.

I have read about the penis becoming incapable of getting an erection once you're immortal, nothing about going inside the body though.