Nungali

yep, that is where my paper is heading . One interesting aspect in managing ourselves internally , or externally in relationships is via the metaphor of the inner planets representing personal aspects of the psyche ; Mars Venus and Mercury : active passive and reconciling . if you get caught up in a Mars / Venus issue you may never solve it when you are ON that base line ; Mars ------------------------------------- Venus , it could be endless conflictual ping-pong . You need to 'rise above , observe both extremes , and respond , rather then react , from the position of Mercury ^ Mars ---------------------------------------------Venus The outer planets have a similar dynamic in the 'transpersonal' aspect . I have not seen the Gurdjieff view on this before ... it seems we came to the same conclusions . Did he also realize how the primal triad forms a fourth principle ? There are many 'three centers or aspects' in the person including fire, water , air, earth : the nervous systems, the circulatory systems, the respiratory systems and the bones muscles tendons etc . I like this : " affirmation, denial and reconciliation" .. a fe systemns teach to 'balance opposites' ... but then what ? reconcile ... of course .

... so me days a picture will just not take to posting ???

Yes, but with some different 'notations ' ; https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmaat.sofiatopia.org%2Fitrine.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4ecf6bc67fa296cd51c7f66d96c0cc564e3c239bb5448348434f7252c82319e7&ipo=images

Her meaning : He didnt go deep enough . His meaning : Women are never satisfied . My meaning ; He got frightened when , after giving her his heart , he felt his illusion of individual self dissolving and the 'barrier' that separated him from her , no longer being there .

Yeah .... Necronomicon ( regardless of its 'invalidity' ) is a system that can work IF you know how to read it , re structure it , and get past the authors silly mistakes and confusion at his results . People have said 'It has no banishings ! ' Errmm, they are at the back, dont start anything until you read the whole book . A bit like following an electrician's manual where the last page tells you not to forget to turn the power off first . And it sorta ends in chaos and despair " Dog faced demons are at my window at night ! " Dude ! You where invoking Sirius ... the 'dog star ' ! What did you expect ? Whats so terrible about the bible ? A guy puts up some travelers for the night , the locals turn up and apparently, for some reason (as the Christian translators tell us ) want to have sex with the visitors ( 'Send them out so we may 'know' them ' ) anyway, maybe they just did want to meet them , but still, what happens next ? The guy says nope , the crowd gets restless, angry , threatening to get outa control so guy decides to throw his wife out there ( or was it his daughters ? or both , anyway ) the crowd beats her up and rapes her for most of the night . Hubby comes out in the morning sees her slumped on the doorstep and says ; " Get up woman " - but she cant get up ... she is dead . So he goes in and gets a carving knife , hacks her in to 12 bits, wraps them up in parcels and sends each parcel to a tribe of Israel asking if they have ever seen such a wondrous thing . They reply , no , we have never seen such a thing . And then, he gets lauded as the only descent man in that town . Ummmmm .... I went to catholic school ... NEVER saw a bible , we got taught out the 'catholic catechism ' .. a highly censored version of the Bible with various spins and additions to it . But not everyone is terrified to read it : ( Malcome McDowle in Clockwork Orange ; after extreme therapy for super violent sadistic anti-social behavior , the prison psychologist is impressed to find him reading the bible and contemplating with a look of ecstatic beatitude on his face , eyes gazing up to heaven .... but then we see what he is imagining ; being the centurion that is flogging , crowning with thorns and crucifying Jesus

Lets do some 'geometry' of consciousness / coming into existence : First is 1 , the point , a concept with no dimensional measurements . The point can only be aware of itself as nothing else exists yet . But it can be aware of itself , so we have extended awareness to two things ; the point itself and its awareness of itself . The point has moved , 'as it where ' to go 'outside itself ' to 'look back at itself ' , 'to consider what it might be . A moving point defines a line . We are in one dimension . The point 'self' and the 'awareness of / looking at the point / self creates an opinion , observation , understanding ... a third thing . Now we have three points on the one dimensional field ; a triangle and the concept of 2D ; the 'surface ' . Its all ' flat ' and in the 'ideal world ' , above normal perceptions . To cross this 'abyss ', we have to come 'up' from the surface and create a 3D 'shape ' . so first (is actually 0 , that 'field we are imagining this in ' , or the 'time space continuum ' as some prefer ) is point, then line, surface (all ideal concepts , even in drawn geometry a line has thickness and depth as well as length ) and then shape .

Above we have an image of the three Gunas ; read it ... you will see how the 3 : 4 'thing' is a universal principle . ie; 3 things come together to form an 'ideal' (non material , but 'real ) form or pattern and from this emerges , or they result in, a 4th material , or 'further towards material' product . Its basic '4 element' theory ; fire water air ... earth 'solid material reality stuff ' . 4 principles each in 3 modes with a 'quintessential' 'apart from that' origin . ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintessence ) I postulate it came from the pattern of the human hand ; four fingers in 3 parts and a thumb ... or the pattern is just so universal that it works good for a hand < shrug > . The 4 powers of physics ; electo-magnetic force, strong force, weak force, ( which can all be 'unified' ) and Gravity . They cant fit gravity into the 'Unified field' theory as it , according to this concept, is 'out side' ... or a 'result of' the other three . There is an old thread around somewhere where we played with moving the G constant to the other side of the accepted formulae ... ie AFTER the = sign and not before it . The other addition to the 3:4 pattern is often a 7 based system , which I think was based on the observation of the 7 'heavenly wanderers ' . The Principles Mysterious Energy, triform, mysterious Matter, in fourfold and sevenfold division, the interplay of which things weave the dance of the Veil of Life upon the Face of the Spirit ...

Check out those baps !

Hmmmm .... Now I think of a recent advert on tv here ; 'women's soccer ' . A women comes on " Its not 'women's sport ... it's SPORT . ... Its not 'women's ...... it is .... " and so on . - even without a sex change . Then the advert ends with a huge banner " Women's world cup soccer " and 'The Australian National Women's Soccer Team " It used to be called the 'W-League' , but now changed names to 'A-League ' , which consist of ; TAS Women's Summer Cup; PSC Championship; Victoria Women's State Knockout Cup; Victoria Women's Community Shield; Western Australia Women's State Cup; South Australia Women's Premier & State Cup; Tasmania Women's Statewide Cup ... and so on . is that disorder or order ?

BUT ... maybe it wouldn't . Known for .... by who ? In other words ... 'sez who ' ? In my observations atheists who proselytize ( ) clearly support order , just look at how they postulate life started on earth . Its all about the inherent properties in matter / chemicals and compounds , and that goes on across the board ... ie, they 'replace God with science ' . I think people that deny that are thinking 'God ' created everything due to his 'power of Godness ' is chaos and disorder .... and 'God' seems a product of the human mind that cannot perceive , or has trouble perceiving , the huge complexity of order required for the atheist view .

Do you know why this is so ? I find it interesting as I feel a certain dynamic like that existed in Zoroastrianism . I first assumed the early form was superstitious , ceremonial , deified , full of 'personalized forces ' ( ie, principles and powers of 'nature' are depicted as virtually Gods, with human attributes ) and the latter more open to a refined and philosophical / psychological interpretation . But now I think its the other way around , the early forms and meanings of terms seems much more advanced and less 'superstitious '. What do you think was the cause of moving away from the early understanding of Taoism ? ... or is it just the 'movement of the masses' - 'dumbing things down ' - as it where ?

Okay ... sorry , I will delete it

yeah ... possibly . I am not keen on the 'ours is the only real right opinion ' trip . Then again , I am not clear on what an 'Abrahamic' definition is ?

Okay ... I cant find the posts here and it appears to have vanished off my desktop . I will hunt for one of my flash drives and try to copy it to here later .

I got a bunch of nerdy related posts on DBums ; IE expansion into Central Asia , IE religions , movements into BMAC and out from there ; west to eventually 'Persia' and east to eventually Tibet , over/around The Kush into India , tracking streams of philosophy and religious similarities , etc . The roots of western ' ethics' . https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20170406-this-obscure-religion-shaped-the-west https://infinitediscoveries.org/zoroastrianism-an-ancient-persian-faith-and-the-foundations-of-western-civilization/

I have a long paper on it , but not just before Christianity , on the basic aspects of the concept as a principle in nature , physics (including sub atomic physics ) , cosmology , philosophy and religions .... if you want to read it .

I am assuming your sigh is due to the issue that I wanted clarity on if 'THESE three religions ' ( "Daoism showing up in the Ru and Esoteric Buddhist beliefs ") where considered by you as " THE big three religions " . " Three of the world's major religions -- the monotheist traditions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam -- were all born in the Middle East and are all inextricably linked to one another. Christianity was born from within the Jewish tradition, and Islam developed from both Christianity and Judaism. " and https://www.religionlink.com/reporting-on-religion/a-roundup-of-religions/the-big-three-christianity-judaism-and-islam/ Since I didnt get that clarity , I assumed you did mean THE three big religions as that is what you wrote . I am sorry if my attempt at getting clarity and answering your question , writing out all that , finding the references and putting them up for you caused you to sigh . Unless it was a sigh of pleasure ?

Curiously I worked with Mexican ... a classic 'stereotypical Mexican' ... I always remember this crazy conversation between me , him and our boss , a Persian , all crammed into the front seat of a small van and approaching the film studios front main gate , with a security barrier and guard : Arturo : " Hey Man, there is the main gate , how do we get in ? Do we get a key or is it automatic ?" Reza ; " No , not automatic , a man is in there and he come out and open the barrier ... is manual . " Arturo : " Manuel ?? " Reza (laughs ) : ' No ... manual ... he opens it , its NOT automatic . " Arturo ( confused ) ; " Who is Manuel ? " Me ; " They guy that opens the gate , his name is Manuel ... you pull up beep the horn , Manuel will come out , check ID and open the barrier ..... manually . Just like you try to understand things Arturo-ally . " We pull up, he checks the window sticker , opens the barrier and we drive through . Arturo hangs his head out the window " Thanks Manuel ! " That guy got called Manuel for over 6 months and it spread though the crew , everyone started doing it ; " Hey ! Manuel ! " as they drove though . He had no idea how he got that nick name .

I told you that cat had a nasty look in its eyes .

Or even have the same root in antiquity .

Indian guy ... complaining ; " My parents wanted me to become a doctor , but I didnt want to ... I am very happy being a dentist ! Mum, Dad , I said to them ... you should let me follow my own path, besides , you have 5 sons altogether .... surely 4 doctors in the family is enough for you ? " I loved you example . A principle of bringing up children ( subsequent to our 'baptism rite ' , which is really parental education ) " Build not a pen for a shark nor a pool for a goat ." I feel this has been and endless problem for some . I remember an early proclivity of mine was towards ' window dressing ' - I watched a department store guy arranging a display and I declared 'Thats what I want to do when I grow up ' .... but parents where horrified ( back then it was assumed to be a 'homosexual thing ' and they feared little Nungers was off to hell. I was ruched off to have emergency ' career guidance ' and after some strange tests they where informed I would make a good shop assistant . Well, now I can design an interior with harmony of space form and color, design a building with blue prints and build a model of it .