Nungali

I think you mmade a mmistake . because the MOST misspelt word in America Is Austrualia ( and voila is actually viola .... a small stringed mmusical instrument .)

Oh .... much more than that ! Its a 'development' from 3 to 4 and that is a 'Universal pattern' . Jung himself even 'developed it ' .... adding a fourth 'drive' to Freud's basic 3 ( ie, Jung's 'religious instinct ' )

As one would assume . But go try it . G and try and convince someone that really believes they are seeing something , when it IS an hallucination , that it isnt real . Otherwise we would have a revolving door on our psych wards , with people coming in one side, meeting a doctor who says ; " Look, its not real, just stop believing in it ." And the patients going " OH ? Okay then . " and walking out the door . These ideas might sound fine , but seem totally divorced from the reality of being in the actual experience . You be pushing the proverbial poo uphill with a toothless rake with that one . When I worked at the hospital, the nurses ( well, the one's that knew what was going on ) would specifically call for me ( to come off my ward and go to their one ) to deal with such cases .; " Mrs. Smith has gone right off ! She insists there is a dog under her bed he bed in the ward and is making an awful fuss about it and disturbing other patents . We even showed her nothing is there , but that just made her more confused . " So I go into the room ( 4 beds ) and 'Mrs Smith' , Immediately " Who are you and what are you doing here ?" Me; " Dog catcher ... from the Pound, where is he ?" " Oh, at last .... under the bed . " " Right then ! " ... I grab a blanket, go under the bed ... make growling and dog catching noises ... ' Cummere you ! " ... emerge with a bundled blanket that I am shaking and wiggling around and remove the 'dog' . But then she goes ; " What about the bird ! There is a bird in my drip ! .... thats made it unsterilised ... I;ll get bird flu ! " and she starts trying to pull her drip out . Me ; " No no, that bird is not INside your drip , thats a sealed bag a bird cant get in there ... that bird is sitting on the outside of your drip and because its clear plastic ... you are seeing through it and seeing the bird ... it just looks like the bird is inside ... now shoo ! Out you go... ot the window ! " Then she looks at me kindly ; " Oh , yes,of course, silly me .... " and then " ... I'm sorry , that wa silly, I think I am a bit confused . " Oh thats fine Mrs Smith , dont worry about that , sometimes when you come out of an anesethetic, you can feel a bit that way , you will be fine by tomorrow . " ... I' ve caught dogs birds and cats , been the 'housing inspector' , a WWII correspondent .... ' the barber' , 'someone's long dead husband' .....

I remember that book. Many years back , I read it with some naive excitement . I never guessed back then that I would find myself working a form of alchemy and producing 'elixirs and stones' for the Aussie BD agricultural market . I have retired from that now though . I'll offer this to you as you might find it interesting , it covers a similar area to The Elixir and the Stone ( being ; " an alternative history of the intellectual world. Perhaps for the first time it puts into their true context those shadowy alchemists and magicians who have haunted the imaginations of people for centuries. " ... as the critics said of it ) , but this IMO tops it - I think its rather essential reading to get a grip on the tradition ; Patrick Harpur , 'The Philosopher's Secret Fire - A History of the Imagination ' " The visionary tradition of spirits, gods, and demons continues to subvert our rational universe, erupting from the shadows in times of intense religious and philosophical transition. In this dazzling history, Patrick Harpur links together fields as far apart as Greek philosophy and depth psychology, Renaissance magic and tribal ritual, Romantic poetry and the ecstasy of the shaman, to trace how societies have used myths to make sense of the world. ... ... Patrick Harpur is an acclaimed author, best known for his philosophical works, which include The Philosophers' Secret Fire: A History Of The Imagination and Mercurius: The Marriage Of Heaven and Earth , the latter of which, after being out of print for several years (and fetching a small fortune on auction sites like eBay) has finally been re-released in a paperback edition. ' ( - Damn .... I got an old copy of 'Mercurius' sitting in a book box in the shed ... looks like I just missed out on a 'small fortune' . ) I also recommend his 'Daimonic Reality' . [ " Lake monsters, Yetis, UFOs, crop circles, guardian angels and visions of the Virgin Mary can all be described as apparitions, and this book weaves together an account of them. It argues that only in the last three centuries or so, and only in Western culture, they're as lively as ever. But, the author suggests, they can be made intelligible again by appealing to a different world-view. Three of the chief models for understanding mind and world are Jung's "Collective World", which is used to illuminate the links between the apparently disparate experiences being dealt with." ] ... where the author is coming from : ' In his book, Daimonic Reality, Harpur argues that the human psyche extends beyond the confines of the physical human body, and that it may in fact be a part of our reality. He also notes that during most of human history, civilization has had another, "shadow reality" of folklore, except the current society which is strongly attached to the material. The following is a quotation from Daimonic Reality: Hitherto, I have taken "soul" to refer to two distinct, but unrelated, images. Firstly, soul is synonymous with the daimonic realm itself, the realm of Imagination, and is really an abbreviation for the collective Anima Mundi, or World-Soul. Secondly, soul refers to whatever images the World-Soul itself uses to represent itself. Archetypally, this image is usually feminine and appears, for example, as a female daimon or goddess who, as Jung would say, "personifies the collective unconscious." Now the third use of "soul" refers to the image by which we, as individuals, are represented in the World-Soul. Traditional views of human nature have always allowed for (at least) two "souls" of the latter kind. In ancient Egypt, for instance, they were known as the ka and the ba; in China, hun and p'o. One of these souls inhabits the body and is the equivalent of what, faute de mieux, we call the ego. I will call it the rational ego to distinguish it from the second soul, variously called, in other cultures, the shadow-soul, ghost-soul, death-soul, image-soul and dream-soul, for which our culture has either the word "soul" or else no word, because it is not generally believed to exist. However, it does exist and can be thought of as an ego, in the sense that it confers identity and individuality. It enables us, that is - like the rational ego - to say "I." But it is an ego, not of consciousness, but of the unconscious; not a waking, but a dream ego; not a rational ego, but an irrational ego. I will call it the daimonic ego. Like the rational ego, it has a body - not a physical one but a dream-body, a "subtle" body such as daimons are imagined as having, an "astral" body as some esoteric doctrines say: in short, a daimonic body. " - Wikipedia

I didnt want to tangent the other thread so made a new one. Some poo poo Crowley for (aside from other things) his 'psychologification' of magick . And also Jung ... as if they have taken the magic out of magic . But I was just thinking .... could we not say instead that 'magic' influenced psychology and changed psychology to a more magical (Jungian ) viewpoint ? (yes, I know many reject Jung , including a psychiatrist I knew who refused to discuss him - best to avoid the kitchen if one cant handle the heat ... any suggestion was met with "Talk to my brother, he is a Jungian, I am not. " )

a 'fortune teller ' reading tea leaves is hardly comparable to a Priest in the Gnostic Catholic Church , nor a qualified magician performing an evocation .

Its not the underpinning of western occultism ... its the underpinning technology of all spiritual systems that use any thing like ritual . 'Seeking control over the mind ' has no exclusivity at all owned by western occultism . Look up a definition of meditation .

Thanks . This is crucial .... I shall return to discuss later .

I meant ' discuss these FIVE concepts ....

Ah ... we are at the juice . I would like to examine these concepts in greater detail . I have a sot of compendium of post mortem / 'types of or 'parts of the ' soul , ideas going, from Zoroastrian, Buddhist, Egyptian, Jewish, Indigenous ... etc . Could you expand on your understanding of these 4 concepts .,..... please ( then lets discuss that in relation to their hieroglyphs ) and what do you think of this arrangement ? : The whole list : Aside ; Speaking one's name ( ren ) helps maintain their existence .... but what about THEM speaking after they are dead ? I recently saw a doco where .... get this ..... they scanned a dead Pharaoh's voice box , did a 3-d print of it , did some 'computery stuff' and said they where going to hear dead Pharaoh talk again ! But it was a bit of a scam .... nothing like any type of words or language .... just a range of tones and frequencies and some wiggly lines on a screen .... in any case , someone suggested the mummified voice box had shrunk during the mummification process and any reproductions would not be accurate . Damn 'scientific journalism ' ... for a moment there I thought I was going to hear an ancient Pharaoh chant some spell in ancient Egyptian in his own voice .

And I will remind Daniel or anyone influenced by his opinions that the 'technologies' used in magic/k are the same one's as used in any religion , church, shamanic practice, meditation , etc etc . Because they are valid and they work ! One that 'hand waves' them away as invalid and mind games seems to be subtly indicating that ' their cup is full ' ..... ( of something ) and not allowing the possibility of OTHER methods .

Some who practice magic/k dont see it like that at all Daniel . if you only see 'mind games' , you are missing an awful lot !

hey HD ... can you restrict your snippet one line or long rant posts to threads YOU started ? You are welcome to post in threads I started as long as its contextual and reasonable discussion . You have multiple of your own going to do this in . ( Edit ; Oh .... I just saw the suspension log , this won't be happening again then . )

When I first started communicating via Daobums , and over the years , many an amazing woman here has been 'met' . But sadly over the years many have left .... not just people leaving over some type of frustration , I am talking women leaving over some type of sexist or misogynist 'frustration' . I am glad you 'guys' ( ) are here . . . hang in there ! In this age , I am sad to say , ' the feminine' * is still under assault ; * sexual equality , nature and environment , the 'World Soul ' , the 'Human Soul ' (often ascribed to the 'feminine principle' ) and that most interesting of feminine icons ; Venus / love . In this subject , I think it was a precept of earlier Buddhism to give thanks for being a man , and being born in a country that has access to the teachings of Buddha . I give thanks for being born a man .... not for 'not being born a woman ' ... I also give thanks for my country of birth , time in history , the parents I had .... etc etc . But I can do that as I have had a VERY good life . Maybe some people do not realize how good their life actually is ( relatively and in context with others ) ?

" Nei wrong "

( I had a ree-peek here due to 'likes ' that where made . ) I forgot about this guy ^ ... guess what ..... that was his last post here One day people might realize it aint a good idea to throw a brick at a vertical trampoline .

Moses of all people should know that one side does not touch another .....

Right .... I got it all laid out on the table now ; the cat , a kitchen disposal unit , an electrical transformer and a copy of the Bhagavad Gita .... I'm gonna get to the bottom of this ! .

Dude ! They are not 'zen' .... just lazy bastards .... they just got it over you !

Lets look at the other side of the coin ; " The only real sin is to deny what you know to e true as it does not pander to one's prejudices ." I agree with your conclusion but 'the dove' is but one aspect - " ... there is the Dove and there is the Serpent , choose ye well ."

They ALL are ! YOU PHONE GUYS ! I constantly have issues with people on other forum , turns out they are writing on their phones and cant do a whole lotta stuff , and it also encourages quick easy replies ... not really a good tool for convo . Dont no one use a lappie no more ? ( Now I am a conplainer too

Well, its a bit boring playing like that . The Gods dont like to be bored as they be around for a LOOOOOONG time . So they gotta think up crazy unusual shit .... like 'humans' .