Nungali

Check his post history and his first few posts here ... that will explain it .

Its also about a video being posted with no comment or anything . I suppose that is 'my problem' as well . One can only assume your underlying aggression is yet another manifestation of Indo European Soma intoxication "Men who ride swiftly, having good horses, call on me when surrounded in battle. I, the bountiful Indra, provoke strife. I whirl up the dust, my strength is overwhelming... . No godlike power can check me - I who am unassailable. When draughts of Soma, when songs have made me frenzied, then both the unbounded regions are filled with fear." Rig Veda (4.42.1-6)

' Clay singers' they used to call them . Its part of folk agricultural practices (pre modern artificial fertilizer era ) that was incorporated into Bio-dynamic agriculture . I prefer not to use 'clockwise' ( as its the reverse 'down here' ) ; deosil and widdershins, with the path of the Sun or against it . With was generally thought good and the reverse not so good . 'Pull in energy' is a bit vague , but yes , the basic principle seems the same .... except ... in bio-dynamics it a bit more complex, you need a 'shatter' cycle to disperse the 'pulled in energy' into the substance . For those that actually read and studied Steiner's agricultural writings ( most do not as one only needs a few chapters from it under your belt to pass exams and be qualified ), its clear the idea is to stir one way to 'gather forces' then the other , it is actually the process of disrupting the vortex formed that energizes the water or potion . The same is done with their other preparation 501 ... where quartz crystal rods are smashed and pulverized to 'release the energy' contained within the form .

No it isnt ... you cant be repeatedly wrong, as pointed out by multiple other opinions , give up, go back to your original position and stand firmly with a .... " Is so ! " or " Is not ! " Thats very immature . Here are some morals selected at random from merely one Thelemic instructional document : Dont condemn others , be humble, dont mock and revile , do good unto others for its own sake , do not abuse, abase , violate or force the spirits, do not blaspheme another's God . * I can also extract a few more simple lists for you to follow if you have trouble finding them in the Thelemic documents you have claimed to read . *

From the title I thought this thread might be interesting . Or something about the variation in use and effect of soma as used by the Rig Vedic tribes ( amping up for aggression and warfare ) as opposed to its use by the Avestan tribes ( as part of a medicine for good health ) . But it just seems to be a passage cited from RV .... with nothing else ( except the usual from Lairg ) .

Here is one I heard about in a documentary on Aussies in WWII , New Guinea ( a while back so the details are blurry) . Aussie paratrooper landing behind enemy lines but but his chute failed , went out of control , not only landed in the middle of a Jap camp but came through the mess tent roof .... at lunchtime ! Managed to fight them off with hand to hand combat and his knife. Escaped into jungle, he was pursued but later found dead from the injuries sustained in the fight . WWI tools used as weapons .... I am sure you are familiar with that from Okinawa ; sickle, handle, oar, rice flail, hoe, etc .

I have already looked into Nazca lines. Recently a doco appeared with some recent interesting new research results about them . 1) . The vast kaleidoscope of human expression in culture across time and locations .

That is not my only source, I also took Comparative Religion and Divinity , but my own views (aside from any academic ones are heavily influenced by the other things I did , mainly 'field work' in religions , ie. dont just study from the outside , get in there and practice and experience it . Especially in the field of western tradition / hermetics / magick . In that field the examination of sacrifice is a large subject ... it is in that field and in regard to spirituality that I draw the distinction between offering and and sacrifice ... and as a reminding clarity ... here we are talking about the banning of animal sacrifice and the substitution of that with 'offerings' - ie. not killing an animal . So ( and its probably my mistake causing confusion by not writing precisely enough ) there is certainly a difference here that I see and not the same action . However the underlying principle is the same from a magical perspective . Its the method that is different . There is no 'ultimate truth' nor do I have complete faith in my brain . Thats just my way ... I was having a joke , having a 'go at you' for what I detected as something rather silly and possibly not serious . The things you mentioned above are valid .... but I dont think any lack of modern sex lotions every stopped people masturbating in the past . That was my point . To me , it stood out as something silly from the rest of the comments . yes, I was being contrarian regarding the lotion . if you want a more serious discussion on masturbation (wow, thats a first for Daobums ) , it probably be another subject and thread ... you covered a few subject in that post , any deep discussion on them, they should be split off , UNLESS , I think , it is more focused on the topic issue ( however can we separate masturbation from group rituals ? I feel a bit urky talking about group masturbation rituals . ) My intention was to point out I think its rather silly and uninformed to link the lack of modern sex lotions with reasons for or against masturbation in ancient societies. Is it unique ? Can we really discuss such issues based on 'what we heard ' ?. One important issue about any discussion is getting the facts in order . But lets move on, yes, this technique is common in many earth quake areas , even with wood . The Chinese and Japanese invented interesting techniques with layers of branching out wood beams for the roof , like a puzzle . The posts dont even go into the ground , nor are secured . As a part time builder I was gob smacked when I first saw that . But if you put one of these structures on an earth quake machine tester , they are phenomenal . One test I saw , the building lasted longer than the machine - some tiles fell off the roof , some light pieces of wood broke off, one pole base moved off its flat stone base support , another was half way off and that was it. Flex like the willow in the storm .... it seems 'Daoistic' . I think we all have to agree the many of ancients where highly clever smart and intelligent . I am supposing you means something other than what you wrote here . We have dry stone walls all around the place here . Even have a guy that specializes in making them . When we are talking about monumental or megalithic construction , the story changes , it has to do with a suite of things ; technology, method, size of block (all important) - and the reasons for the size of blocks etc . etc . probably another separate thread for in depth on this . And you are sure about that ? Or is that what you heard ? if you did 'hear it' source ? lets actually measure those things , or go to valid studies where these things are measured . Is it that we can not replicate it , impossible ... or is that we just do not do it , for a variety of reasons ? I am not sure, but I have seen several methods which might have validity . here is the thing , I watched a Maori guy carve a beautiful complex detailed pendant out of jade with nothing but cotton off a cotton reel. No factory of western modern jeweler would do that today ... they COULD do it if shown how, but why ? Unless they where interested in that process and not just making jewelry . I also think the had more than one method , there are some 'rope burn' channels on some of those blocks , a similar process to what that Maori guy used . Also there is some evidence of the 'dye lift and check' method . Also a bit of ground and pound . I dont think there is any clear consensus on this though 'Been told' . But yeah it certainyl would not have been what I would call 'easy' , it is clearly NOT impossible as they and people all over the place back then did things like that .... they moved a LOT of big rocks around all over the place - check out where the Stonehenge material came from . Also Easter Island - HUGE carved statues got moved over steep rocky terrain . How ... well the natives said the priests made the statues walk there . Academia's view ? Well ... okay, we will give that a try then : and that is probably not the only method they used for that either . We need to look at them specifically , the surrounds and material, their culture and history. Some people dragged on sleds, some used rails and logs ( even in per dynastic Egypt ; see 'Merer's Boat ' ) . some used sand with a liquid poured on it , some used rope pulling and leverage ... and some used UFO powered levitation First lets make sure that is a valid question , your question so you need to put up the proof of that question ( by the way I have had many a discussion here without defining these things first , if you want to see them there are all through the site ) They struggles even more than we do today . Not really the simplest ... lets say the most direct reason. leaving aside the vagueness of ' higher level culture' ( since it is a relative value judgement) I agree . Modern civ sucks ! so does modern tech .... Thing is they where so much more 'smarter' than us they might not have even needed 'spiritual technology' ... thats a BIG HIT to the modern ego , so they must have had some secret ... alien help, magics ... 'spiritual technology ' ... cheaters ! because we all know we are so much more advanced and together than they where ? I mean, back then they didnt even napalm ... let alone tactical nuclear weapons ! .... savages ! ( thats sarcasm ) Too vague a question , Did you want to know HOW they where made , or for what purpose or ... ?

A few reasons , the most basic one , without laying down a course in anthropology here , is that we are all human and share certain traits... no matter where or when we turned up . No they have not. Australian Aboriginal cultures actually have no sacrificial tradition whatsoever in any area . You cant use Christian, Jew or Muslim analogy as their stories all come from the same source and regarding this subject are not separated from each other . ' Ancient cavemen' is a rather vague designation . I think what you might be seeing as 'fire sacrifice' is mistaken ... how does one 'sacrifice' fire .... look into Zoroastrianism ... THE fire religion ... if you REALLY look into it you will see they do not actually sacrifice fire , nor worship it - as many suppose . Indo European tribes practiced sacrifice , but when they moved from the Steppe down into south central Asia and blended with people from BMAC culture and then split in two ( to later become Zoroastrians and Hindus ) BOTH of them forbade the old animal sacrifice culture ( via Zarathustra and Tonpa Shenrab, { also known as Shenrab Miwo, Buddha Shenrab, Guru Shenrab and a number of other titles, is the legendary founder of the Bon religious tradition of Tibet } ) and from those two directions (east and west) most of the worlds religions radiated outwards . Sacrifice was substituted with offerings , often agricultural products ... these ceremonies are not sacrifices but offerings . There is a HUGE difference , especially on the psychological makeup of the 'operator' . The answer to that is no mystery at all and is easily answered . If any human tries to build the simplest of form and highest structure possible , without modern technology .... what shape do get ? Basically its about 'piling up rocks' . No I am not being simplistic , this comes from years of study and is supported by opinion all over the place ... if one cares to actually look into these these things . Any big structure was ... even lines of stones , earthworks , rock carvings , anything significant . Its to do with agriculture, or hunting and gathering , even pastorialists did it . Its a type of clock . More so than today people realized the importance of cosmic . solar and lunar cycles. 'Dark emu' is a perfect example .... when the big emu in the sky lines up with the big emu on the ground , its time to gather emu eggs for food ; Well, that is one man's perspective . However the bolded bit is certainly significant and important . here in Oz its just starting in things like indigenous environmental management being given credit and the people being asked to train others in it . Especially so in areas of fire management . Indeed, and everything in the Universe can be so grouped . On an 'ideal level ', then it 'bumps up to groups of four as it comes into the 'real level' . One way of describing 'gunas' and how they operate within our psyche is ; feeling , thought and ecstasy . And the task is to go beyond that to 'the one' ; Feeling thought and ecstasy Are but the cerements of Me. Thrown off like planets from the Sun Ye are but satellites of the One. But should your revolution stop Ye would inevitably drop Headlong within the central Soul, And all the parts become the Whole. Sloth and activity and peace, When will ye learn that ye must cease? I like 'slow and steady wins the race.' Yet the great reformers mentioned above outlined the terrible psychic damage done to many things including the self from such practices . \ Wow . Are you serious ? 'Lotions' where not available ? Now we have to imagine those tribes that were not so hung up on it... all sitting around jerking off and eventually dying out due to no population replacements . Ummm ... thats just about all the tribes on earth except the Jews .... hmmm , maybe its time to duck out of of this ... its getting to silly . I prefer a lifetime of studying anthropology and religion thanks

Okay guys ... you triggered me . What is my 'power' ? Not a list of them ... but what I might consider my 'main one' . Great question . After thinking a bit I am going to say ' a fortuitous birth ' , followed by lots of 'good luck', some type of guiding and protecting force and an appreciation and celebration of a fantastic life I seem to have acquired 'somehow' . "

I just saw I left this one hanging there .... I'll be brief ( probably at the expense of the story ) I monk leaves the monastery and goes out into the world, asks his superior what is a good simple brief and mindful meditation he can keep focus in amidst the distractions of the world . he is told to just remember, meditate on and mantra ; " All is transitory. " So he does .... and comes close to enlightenment . This, of course attracts the arch-demon Mara ( ) - the one that leads us away from enlightenment . Mara causes the monk to be distracted with money and goods, luring him into a successful business, a love affair, a marriage and all sorts of earthly delights . But still the monk continues .... 'this is all good but still - all is transitory, it too shall pass away . This enrages Mara so he causes the business to fail, the wife to withdraw her love and turn against him ... but the Monk realizes these events , too, are transitory . So Mara afflicts the monk with disease and sickness , but being sick and bed ridden all the monk can do is lie there and chant ' All is transitory ... all is transitory ." Further enraged Mara causes the monk to die and be reborn as ( series of incarnations as 'low' animals , that all eventually come to realize that all is transitory ... ) finally Mara makes him be reborn as an elephant in the Maharajas court , he is fed well, washed decorated and likes all that , now Mara is delighted as he thinks the monk / elephant is further away from enlightenment than ever . But you know elephants ! They have good memories ( apparently ) , one day a traveling wise man is bought to the palace as the Maharaja wants to hear his wisdom , the monk tells him ; " All is transitory " . The elephant is outside the window and hears it, and remembers , and now is on the very threshold of enlightenment , totally enraged Mara strikes him down and. Now he has only 'the supreme trick' left , to lead hi, away from enlightenment . He causes him to be reborn as Lord Mahabrama - Lord of all possible Universes. Now Monk Mahabrama is floating at the center of all possible Universes, his four heads looking in each direction watching the Universes come and go in birth and destruction and the aeons pass. Now Mara is delighted , the Monk is further from enlightenment than ever ! There he wallowed in his magnificence for eternity ... until he eventually noticed that indeed the Universes do come and go, light turns to dark and back to light as well .... actually it appears now to Monk Mahabrama that .... everything is transitory With a cosmic scream of anguish Mara is vanquished and the Monk comes back to realization that he is a monk thinking he was Lord Mahabrama , but also he actually IS Lord Mahabrahma thinking he was a Monk and thus poised on the threshold of illumination he , of course had to have the next thought .... " But all that is transitory too ." and with that he knew he was the Monk ... and the butterfly, and the maggot and the elephant and Lord Mahabrama all at the same time . And then his enlightenment became complete .

You will be waiting a long time then . Since the 'Thelemic code' never made it to a religious status , let alone a theocracy. In any case it is way to far undefined to actually direct behavior , that only comes from individuals interpretation, as you may now realize .. And since it has an 'in built self destruct system' it can never go to organized religion or theocracy, because if it did, it would have to follow the book ... and its commentary , which says it is forbidden to even talk about the books meaning , So no, stop fearing that HD as it will never happen . However there have been some cases of 'defense of religious liberty ' where people in the actual organizations involved with Thelema have successfully prosecuted others for making claims against them similar to some of the claims you have made here against the system . But the system itself is not and can not be an organization as it has a 'self - cancellation ' clause embedded in it .

I think I asked him that after his 4th post . But you know what demons are like .... you never get a straight answer off them Well, even I would not go that far ... you might not realise 'poor old HD' suffers psychiatric problems , is tortured by God, thinks he is a high initiate, seems somehow fixated on Crowley, does not think ... he never thinks, just sits there blank ... due to the wires inserted into his brain and body .... no, I am not being a bitch, these are all things he has admitted himself . It seems to be the 'will' of daobums to allow all this < shrug>

Its an old principle that Crowley adopted and does not originate with him ... as you probably realize . A lot of his stuff comes from ancient Zoroastrianism and other sources . The idea of 'True Will' as you rightly outlined has come to us 'down the ages' in many forms and philosophies . All this has been communicated and explained to our confused friend HD here . But he ain't gonna let that 'stand in his way' .

I dont understand what you mean by they won't do it because Crowley said so but you can also say 'they can do it under do what thou wilt .' ... which is 'Crowley's 'say so' ??? Isnt that like saying do not do what I say to do but do it under what I say to do ? People will do what they want anyway under any pretext , even if it is strictly forbidden they may come up with any excuse or reason to commit crime, or just reject the law and do what they are going to do for whatever reason . One cant just declare what they think things mean and go and do anything anyway ..... can't they ? ... Just like you have decided that your interpretation of Do what thou wilt means nothing is off limits . I dont interpret it that way .... however I know you have your own interpretations that you are sticking to .... the problem with that is , your interpretations seem unwholesome , unhealthy, confused , conflictual, non-loving, and old aeon Christian guilt ridden flavored . I will stick with my interpretations thanks and decide that I will not rob and murder my neighbor , that I will offer her comfort if appropriate , and I will not interfere with her will nor be a busybody in her affairs . You see, my interpretation of do what thou wilt means I should let others explore , find or do their will and not interfere with them .... it doesnt mean I can do my own will to the detriment of others and 'fuck em all' . I dont interpret it like that because of my extensive reading of the subject and that simply .... I am not like that . - I find these 'tough guy Thelemites' * a bit boring . * meaning they choose a 'tough' interpretation to justify whatever 'urges' arise in them and think they have to play them out .... because Crowley said so .

Regarding some of his comments about women ; they suck dont they ? However he has written some surprising stuff as well , like his higher initiations would not have been possible without women . In any case , nearly everything crucial in his life depended on them , with no Rose there would have been no Book of the Law, with no Frieda there would have been no Thoth tarot deck, etc . Like many men they seems awfully confused , obsessed and rejecting of women ( at the same time ). Yesterday I was talking to guy at fish market , he starts off on this rant against women , I looked at him ; " Are you a misogynist ?" "No. " " Are you gay ?" " No." " ..... are you married? " " YES! " Oh dear . makes me think of the 60s , there was a man's magazine out called simply 'Man' .... a magazine for men , every cover had a picture of a woman on it Men's magazines ... full of women , with the occasional motorcycle and steam train It is probably safe to say, at least , that Crowley had a crazy mixed up psychology , was a product of the times, his upbringing and simply, himself . Thing is , things have not changed that much , just shifted around a bit .

I accept what is written in the way I see it written ... along with taking in a bigger picture - instead of an immediate button pushing reaction ( looks like he 'got ya' ) I can accept that the words are there but the context seems to have eluded you .... you seem to think he is saying to go and attack one's neighbor and taking that last sentence alone and removing it from the corpus. I could explain, but I see you are set on this one bit so , sure , go ahead and think what ever you like . I really dont think though that you will go and attack your neighbor just because Crowley said so . Do you really think he has that much influence on people ? I won't be going next door to strike slay or rob my neighbor either , I might even offer her 'comfort' , if she needs a massage . But I won't be a 'busy body ' at her . Try this ; consider the subject of the piece - the busybody - and read it all with that in mind . Also in context of the times it was written and the sort of 'interference the busybodies' where up to back then . Now mix in some sarcasm and totally reckless ranting .... the ' kill maim and torture them , if be , but dont spread gossip - I dont take that part seriously .... why would you ? It reminds me of this ; We are in a car going up a steep long winding hill ; a couple in front seat me in the back , been stuck behind a truck for ages , husband in front passenger seat is impatient : "Overtake him, go around ... I cant stand this any longer . " Wife ( driving ) : " What ! No way, I can see a thing , we could have head on accident ." Him : " Anything would be better than this ! " I laughed, and if I was driving I would have laughed . But it might be reckless , as some other idiot driving may well take the 'advice' ! Do you really think Crowley advocated everyone not help their neighbor but rob steal and slay them instead ? . If you do think that, and taking into account other things you have said about your interpretation about what he has written I cannot comprehend why you would have anything to do with him ??? - I mean , half the time you bitch about him and expose him , and the other half you seem to be some type of adherent of his . .

..... ooops ! Did a re-read . No , we didnt have sex with a stranger in the street ! They noticed the energy coming off us, the 'beaming eyes' - my GF gave her a hug (and some of the energy ) .

" Thelema is a mess " have you been on the Thelema forum again ? It certainly is a mess ; a religion whose founder says it isnt a religion , unregulated , no church , no hierarchy , an obscure and half crazy 'Bible' - that is not to be discussed , no central interpretation authority. ..... religious anarchism ! Its almost as if it was designed to be highly personal without anyone telling you how you should relate to it . ." Crowley says to draw no distinctions between one thing and another; that all acts are Holy. He has no immoral actions. His Ethic is to protect the freedom to do what you will, yet he says it's not to do what you like. That you have to dig to find your True Will. I say all Will is valid, until the magician decides against it. " The drawing no distinction between one thing and another is a meditation for those of a grade high enough to be able to practice and comprehend it . It isnt for those that interpret it as an excuse to steal or enact other crimes against others and their rights . Regarding Crowley's 'experiments' with 'breaking the boundaries of personal morals ' and especially in public ( which was probably more geared to generating outrage ) , he was right off IMO . He was right off in many areas of his life , however in my experience , none of that stuff entered into the 'degree work' . Most assume it did ..... sorry folks .... ' no goats ' ( and those that want to be outraged and complain about that are disappointed ) .

I think its a shame that some view sex the way they do . I dont see it as a depletion at all if approached the right way . I mean, if you are 'doing a working' and the energy fills both of you to the extent that people can notice , comment on your eyes or a stranger stops you in the street and asks if they 'can have some of that ' , and they go off feeling better , and the kids stop having nightmares , and the family is being healed , and I am nearly 70 and still going , doing martial arts , and other stuff I see guys half my age not being able to do and still got young GF ..... I dont see how that is a depletion. Also I feel no depletion whatsoever .... as long as things are regulated properly .... the main danger I see is 1 ; obsession developing , with the process or person and 2 ; if it isnt 'pure * then you are 'feeding nasties' . * by pure I dont mean abstinence or being prudish or having guilt about it .... a few people have some pretty base or weird stuff attached to their sexual drives .

Last time I went to a different TCM doc ( as I was away from home working ) they ( him and wife ) did an 'initial survey' of me . One question was how many times a week I had sex ( no, I am not saying here ) She giggled and he looked surprised and he said ' Very good ! Strong chi , healthy . " And they both sorta smirked at me . I had to ask what they thought was 'normal' and he said two or three times a week . That surprised me and I " What ? Even if you are married ? ..... Oh , ummmm .... I wasn't referring to you ..... " - mouth still in gear while brain is signalling ' Abort ! Abort ! .... change subject ! ' . So I dont go for this drain on the energy thing .... unless your energy or health is already bad . ( personally I think its an excuse for Chinese magicians .... " Oh no, I can get a LOT of sex .... its just that I am saving up for immortality . " )

Easter - Hot cross buns. I bought some , toasted them, put on butter, tried some ..... What is wrong with these ? I looked at the packet more closely ; fruitless and spice free hot cross buns . At least they went to the trouble to put a cross on them .

" ... they might find themselves in a place where knives are used a lot , like the Philippines. " Here is one of their old school masters . His style may look ' unorthodox ' but .... these guys learnt doing it 'for real ' . [ I have recently dumped the 'style' I have been doing for years and am heading in this direction * - I have been heading that way for some time anyway . What attracted me to this video when I first saw it recently was ..... ' Hey ! That guy is doing some things I do to my instructor when he tries his stuff on me ( especially from 1: 17 ... he was constantly 'loosing' his fingers .... another reason I left .... he doesnt really know what he is doing ) . ] The Master ; Sonny is gone now but the tradition continues with students. I have wanted to 'dance my form' for some time now, accompanied by drumming A lot of it comes via Moro people . I am very attracted to its modern interpretation of 'flow, spontaneity and the other principles ( see from 6 : 50 below ) mentioned ' especially via ' Guro Jay ' .

" than " ? - that is certainly part of the origin of some of these . Its an age old human dynamic - you know in the past people used to say " I was given' a dream , now they say " I had " a dream Fuseli - The Nightmare 1781 - I dont know how many times I have heard ; " .... and it felt like something was sitting on my chest , I couldnt get up ! " .... love that 'night mare' behind the 'veil'