Nungali

Maybe you mean to ask 'why are some people self-destructive' ?

ya know what ? originally in composing the above I added '' What is needed is associated knowledge about the time, place and Jesus and a comparative study to gain insight . Not some self 'understood modern BS from you and those movies you watch and compare everything to which I removed as it seemed I was being too harsh ...... but there you go again ... '' There are also decades of demonically possessed hollywood characters engaging in self harm and various forms of self mutilation. Why does the above have pins sticking out of his head? Maybe demons possessing him give him pleasure in exchange for self destructive, self harming, tendencies? '' and maybe .... you can postulate anything ... maybe he was a pin cushion in his past life ya know, you can look things up , instead of this weird 'supposin's ' you keep coming up with that are tied in with some aberrant 'Christian' view . '' Director Clive Barker drew inspiration from his visits to underground S&M clubs, where he saw people with extreme body piercings, and from the visceral imagery found in Catholic religious art. Other influences included books depicting African fetishes with many piercings and the need for "repulsive glamour" in the creatures' design.

That does not mean it was pleasurable . I felt better after getting a hip replacement ... do you think that and the recovery were 'pleasurable ' ? A 'consensus' based on one lone experience with one misinterpreted comment . Oh ... a 'mood enhancer' now is it ? Yes. That doesnt mean people who self harm are like pigs . Its meant to demonstrate that Jesus can cast out demons Where did that idea come from ? Think about what pigs meant to Judaism . and remember the pigs 'asked for it ' '' Ultimately, the narrative is not generally interpreted as establishing a universal law about pigs' susceptibility to possession, but rather as a unique event with specific theological and cultural significance within the biblical accounts'' And there are MANY reasons why people might cut themselves No they dont .... its your own 'unusual' interpretations that reinforce your own opinions . '' Like so many other examples of storytelling in the Bible, we are told of actions and statements but are left to figure out the connecting tissue of meaning and context ourselves. So we must be very careful about how we interpret the story. We will be tempted to project our own theories, prejudices, and ideas onto it.'' https://www.wholefaithlivingearth.com/demons-and-pigs-fresh-look/#:~:text=and their demise?-,Yes.,to remain in the area. What is needed is associated knowledge about the time, place and Jesus and a comparative study to gain insight .

One from Donald ( he's good ! )

... yeah just that one entry and then links to the general forum . It worked the other day ; either the subject matter or the 'daobums' part has to be in quote marks ..... last week I got pages of Daobums entry from doing it the right way ...... anybody ?

I was just about to ask about that , someone gave the magical formula recently , I just tried it before and all I got was the Daobums main page I'll try again .

'' Would you be willing to share links to your posts? I’d be very interested to read them '' I am not sure how this is going to unfold .... I am going through my profile > activity and selected > 'topics' - I have never looked through that before .... OMG ! This may take some time , especially when I come up against things I have supposedly written but have no memory of .... like this ; and being totally distracted ! Neurosis and 'illumination' ( vaguely related ) This one used to have great pics ... but now they are gone ; a very early one 2014 These are posts within other's subjects ; - I am finding it very hard to navigate through 'Topics' only has 10 pages .....my content only has 12 pages ( with an option to type a page number in .... less than 12 . 'posts' lists over 800 but shows all the text , not just the subject matter . Here is a link to a paper I mentioned https://www.theisticpsychology.org/books/w.vandusen/presence_spirits.htm Here is a new one that I am about to read ; https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10912-018-9519-z#:~:text=And this actually does occur,is possessed by that spirit. All the rest .... you will have to try and figure out how to use the search engine or just ask questions ...... its all still in here ;

Thank you for pointing that out and trying to educate our resident Homer Simpson here .

I have more than 'wondered ' ..... I did something about it ! Sitting back and wondering from your perspective .... heaven help us from what is about to unfold here ..... Well, there it is ^ ..... what on earth makes you assume that self harm is a pleasurable experience ? NO ... modern people that 'self harm' are not like 'the swine in the bible who were possessed ! I mean ... my God ! Now you are comparing people who self harm with a group of pigs ? What does this even mean ? The pigs ( and according to you , the self harmers , who are now in the same thing ) got pleasure from demons in exchange for hurting themselves . Another classic 'Homer' ' observation ' .

I have always been curious about the 'neter sign' ... I thought it was just a staff with small flag . What other meaning and development of it is there - aside from this 'false connection linguistically ' ? '' the back of the head is Horus ''

Sure ... go for it .

I'll give it a go .... ( they are not indexed or cataloged and the search function doesn't work, last time I checked some old ones , the images had gone and been replaced with a blurry window with an X across it ( ??? ) but they are in there somewhere ..... among the 22,000 posts ) .... I am supposing its the ones regarding evocation / invocation you want to read ?

Haiku is comment without 'comment' - no haiku Do you get it yet ?

Pffft ! I can do a lot better ... and number 1 would have found it easier if it had taken those big 'flip-flops' off its feet .

... I do have sore eyes , but where do I get antelope dung ?

I think I found it ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebers_Papyrus

Where did 'metu' concept come from ? Both origins , that is , first ; if they knew of arteries and nerves ( I assume, from dissections ) and observed them why would they , of from what observation would they conclude other unseen 'channels' connecting the heart to everything else ? Or would that have been 'non observational' but assumptive ( meaning they thought the heart was central and connected , therefore there must be connections ) ? And second , what texts or sources did you get or conclude this 'metu' information from ?

A haiku without comment is no haiku at all .

Hmmmm .... but that which does unite them is at the top of your image ...... no ? ( ' Sema ' ) Also it seems the body , or at least the Pharaoh's body * , is a 'microcosm' of the Nile , or the 'two lands ' ? * or the 'canopic elements ' of his body .

I had a quick look at that - interesting . An interesting converse could be had about that , particularly the ideas of invocation and evocation .

Basically that there is not 'a self' ..... normally . We run on all sorts of 'drives' , influences , conditioning, programs. I have a long history studying cultural anthropology , comparative religion and western ritual magic .... and some experience 'in the field ' . Mostly it is based on the Hierarchy of Spirits model and modified by the principle mentioned above with finding the internal structure 'instructions' within the arrangement and structure of the initiatory organisation * ( and modified by my own and others relevant research and findings ) . To simplify it, it can be seen as basic magical practice / realization . One way to explain it simply is to put the psyche on the Tree of Life ( note, not the body ... that does not really work and was one of those HGD 'innovations' . ) basically the Magician is , or should be training to become , the King of the psyche ( the Kingdom ) First you have a Kingdom - the psyche . Upon that you must start with building a firm foundation ( in all sorts of ways ! ) . A King must have majesty and victory ( or he is 'overthrone' ) ... these titles also relate to the mind and emotions ; the 'sciences ' ( hermetic and others ) and 'nezach' also being 'love' . beauty of spirit and heart ... the 'lion / Sun force' and the 'ego' at the center ( some might say 'the King himself' ) . power and mercy or severity and mercy are the 'left and right arms' of the King eg. '' 12. Remember that unbalanced force is evil; that unbalanced severity is but cruelty and oppression; but that also unbalanced mercy is but weakness which would allow and abet Evil.'' then above the abyss ( Daath ) the King should have understanding , especially the understanding of how the 'world and nature works' and the understanding of the repercussions of his own decisions and actions , going out into that world of nature and interacting and effecting its forces and those forces affecting him . Then wisdom develops , which is the 'if and when ' of such actions , with the considerations of the previous understandings ... then one may come to place the magicians crown upon the head In hermetics the prime directive ( as it was said to be inscribed on the archway into the divine rites 'arena' ) ' Man , know thyself ' , to me this includes all the above ( as well as the anthropology - the study of Man , and the other subjects I studied ; religion , psychology etc . ) - there is a 'hermetic planetary descent incarnation concept' ; as if, when one incarnates , we come 'in' via the planetary hierarchy and 'land' on earth . On the way we pick up the positive and negative aspects of the planetary energies and during our life we are to work on them , refine them and balance them . Each sphere on the Tree of Life can be related to a planet with these energies as well . But that is just the 'template ' , as we know the planets move around and create different angular relationships , bring forth or suppressing various positive and negative aspects - hence the natal horoscope , which gives us a more individually defined path and 'map' of the development required . There is more ... like other systems such as exo-psychology and methods and practices .... but I will leave it here at the moment , ... the hierarchy ... without a hierarchy or a King ..... we can end up a real mess - disturbed psychologically , perhaps not realizing our goals and purpose here (in this incarnation ) ... or actually ... just 'normal ' ( and yes that is a problem ... that becomes apparent when you also study history and current affairs .... we are a bit of a mess ! - if not a rampaging murderous destructive maniac .... collectively ) . * - a difficult reference to cite as it is knowledge 'under oath' and the public documents do not show that specific instruction.... however a question to AI shows ; '' ... provides the foundational framework for the order's governance, which members are expected to study and understand to better govern their own lives .... ''

Thanks for the response . I have a few posts around here relating to my views and research on it . There is the paper by Dr Wilson van Dusen - the evidence of spirits in madness ( Dr Van Dusen was head psychiatrist at a US state hospital ) where also he observed positive and negative 'matrices ' ( ' beings ' , or in his clinical language - hallucinations of good or bad order ) that seemed to comply with the hierarchies Swedenborg detailed ) . Some posts outlining my own work and going way back somewhere here .... some pictures of my temple set up . Some info on possible internal structures and arrangements and how that intersects with initiatory organisations structure as a model for a private one . And of course I have my own '' set of methods and approaches for observing destructive tendencies of the mind ... and what can be done to counterbalance it.'' Are you familiar with IFT ? https://psychology.org.au/for-members/publications/inpsych/2022/winter-2022/internal-family-systems-therapy What I am seeing here is an emergent understanding of the 'hierarchy of spirits' theory that is behind Goetia . An understanding on how it can be used to regulate and improve psychology and spirit and heal associated disruptions - first , within magical initiatory orders , then with what seemed a lone psychologist / psychiatrist ( Dr Van Dusen ) and now a whole psychological movement . Although I feel the IFT psychology is missing a few major points - that might be fuel for an interesting discussion . ( can you cite the author and/or their work you mentioned above ? )

No . I talk to myself but here I write for others to read . 'We' ? I am of no mind about it . I am in my way at this moment , I am in my place where I am ( and live here daily ) . I found it decades ago and before that I have been awake since 1965 . The way at this moment moves towards dinner time . I shall practice my cooking . ... and try to be single pointed conscious in doing it .

That sounded rather ......... ominous .

'' Ahhhhh ..... that's 'better' ? ''