Nungali

Its a Sufi thing . I was about to explain it. But I see you are not interested .

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Yes, good ... thats a good answer .... become a mystic by dancing !

Your welcome ... even tough I didnt answer you . .. I just asked 6 more questions .

Its a well known Sufi story . I think its very good ... it seems to echo my life . I used it to write a fuller version and adapted it for a kids story ... and changed it a bit . I made it a typical 'folk story' bt the girl is not rescued by a prince , the re write is designed to elimante certain outmoded things that we still programe our kids with . In my version (and the original ) Fatima must find her own way out of things and trust in divine direction . Also I preserved the 'Islamic' flavour ' in it, as my society is very mixed and multi cultural by definition. We have a lot of Muslims here and I want to make their culture more 'friendly and understandable ' to the kids that read it ... as there is a LOT of misinformation out there in Australian media and public about Islam and Muslims. I have run the story two times ; once by an internet group in serial form . They loved it and where clutching for the next episode , they even formed a discussion group about what might happen next in the story. VERY curious developments came out of that - most seemed modern self asserting western women . yet continually they said things , like when a new male appeared in the story ; " Maybe HE will save Fatima from her most recent difficulty ? " Then I would step and remind them . " But this isnt a story where the man is superior and the woman helpless , this isnt a bout marrying a prince and the girl is saved by that lives happy ever after ... remember ! ? " And they would laugh and say "Oh yeah, thats right ." and love this idea ... but then, next episode they would it again . being a Sufi story, thats the type of conditioning I hoped to address . I also gave it to a mum to give to her 10 year old daughter ... she said sh e LOVED it and could not put it down . She even stopped using her computer while she read my printed pages ! Whaaat ! ... I had no idea it was that 'magically powerful ' The story ... its 'bones' ... not just my elaborations , also seems to address the issue under discussion elsewhere on the forum ; 'True Will' . .

Great post ! Sometimes I think Sufism 'was born to be ' syncretic . It was due to certain fundamentalist factors in Islam that influenced it to be so 'Islamic' .... ie. 'exclusive' to Islam . Some 'ecstatic' movements in Judaism and Christianity seem 'Sufi' . And many Muslims over time have considered Sufi's apostate or heretic . Especially is the case for my group and our Master . " The traditional view is that Sufism is the mystical school of Islam and had its beginnings in the first centuries following the life of the Prophet Mohammad. There is another view, however, that traces the pre-Islamic roots of Sufism back through the early Christian mystics of Syria and Egypt, to the Essenes, the ancient Pythagorean orders, and the mystery schools of the Egyptians and Zoroastrians, among others. It is these roots that gathered into the trunk known as Islamic Sufism. Sufi Inayat Khan recognized the multi-religious roots of Sufism as well as its contemporary relevance for people of all faiths. When he was instructed by his teacher in 1907 to bring Sufism to the West, he articulated a "message of spiritual liberty" which reflects the universal, inclusive nature of Sufism. As he noted: "Every age of the world has seen awakened souls, and as it is impossible to limit wisdom to any one period or place, so it is impossible to date the origin of Sufism." ....' .... more at ; https://www.sufiway.org/about-us/the-origins-of-sufism ( and it also contains info on the Sufi view of Wisdom , where we can see it is clearly above 'knowledge ) It is sad and tragic what fundamentalists do to things . Islam has the potential to be a beautiful religion and society ; look back through history when Jews Christian and Muslim lived in the same city, together in peace and religious and spiritual unity because they where following instruction of Prophet Mohammed ! And then later , when enlightened and intelligent Muslims go to Harran , and find amazing world changing knowledge preserved in Hermetic teachings ( held there after the collapse of Alexandria , and it's syncretic teachings { the 'Alexandrian Synthesis ; Greek, Jewish , Egyptian, and Magi / Zurvanite ( Zoroastrian - sort of ) collations of wisdom ) ... they adopt it ... considering 'Corpus Hermeticum' , as presented , as ' A Book " (people of the book, or A book ) and Zoroaster as one mentioned by The Prophet in Koran as an unnamed previous Prophet .... they adopted and developed a science and technology that literally changed the world and led to an Age of Enlightenment . YET ... an opposite form of consciousness sacked Zoroastrian libraries ... burning up to 90% of sacred knowledge ... helping to plunge Islam into darkness and ignorance . But yes, most realise this just from recent events ; they are STILL smashing up and destroying the very source of their original 'technological illumination' . Tis the 'way of the world' I suppose - it does not seem to matter if Islam, Judaism, Christianity , Hermetics/ Occult is the medium, its all about what the good people or the bad people make of it and use it for . I dont think religion will change consciousness .... but 'psyche technologies' which many practices including Sufism hold may be a better answer . By the way Patrick ... Indonesia and Indonesians are close to Australia , not only physically but in many Aussie hearts ( and I dont mean nasty tourist types ) . I have found the one's here friendly, happy, enjoy life and eager to 'all get on with each other ' . Actually at many times like when I have needed a reliable tradesman - especially one with an artistic flair ... or even wanted a casual chat I have hunted for an Indonesian over an Aussie , due to these traits . One of my happiest moments was being instructed in Gamalan and allowed to play one piece with their orchestra ... I chose the 'gong ageng ' ( The biggest ones ... that was years back , I think my chkras are still vibrating from it ! Ohhhh ... gimme a go this one ! ( Which can be a bit confusing for an Aussie ..... Conductor ; " Stike the Gong ageng ." Me : " What ... twice ? " )

I guess then , no - you have not heard of Fatima the Rope Maker . Its a fairly common realisation in more than one system of philosophy ... and I think that trumps the above piece of 'obscure Daoism' - Let's have some REAL demonstration other than citing some prose . Which by the way did demonstrate that knowledge was superior ... superior over Dao ? No, as 'Non doing, the speechless one made no reply (of course ) . It was superior over 'act on impulse ' ... again , no great surprise there . And knowledge meets the Emperor Ti . Nowhere in that story is knowledge shown to be superior to Understanding and Wisdom . BUT it did cite : " For he who knows does not speak, He who speaks does not know" ; Cobie might find that interesting , in relation to his post queering Nasruddin's action regarding the sermon's subject matter . Knowledge is a collection of facts ... thats it . There is no hint of 'application'. Its just knowledge . "Knowledge can be defined as awareness of facts or as practical skills, and may also refer to familiarity with objects or situations. Knowledge of facts, also referred to as propositional knowledge, is often defined as true belief that is distinct from opinion or guesswork by virtue of justification " Has philosophy been lost on us ? Have we been not paying attention to all the advice we have been given about 'knowledge' ... being used in isolation : a little knowledge is a dangerous thing . What good is knowledge without other forces moderating it ? One then ends up with knowledge about the intimate creation and destruction of matter , and what do we do ..... develop ways to nuke out whole countries and civilisations with it ! We ALL realise, to some extent , knowledge can be inefficient and dangerous . Would you teach a small child how to fire a gun, or any other person to fire a gun without any other moderations ? Sorry, knowledge is a false God that modern man worships . Beyond knowledge is Understanding .... or it should be and knowledge should be moderated by understanding . I would have thought that would be blindingly obvious ? I have knowledge of what fulminate of mercury can do , but without understanding of the proper process in handling it ...... KABLAM ! Understanding is realising the effects the application of knowledge will or can have . Wisdom is beyond that and is about realising the effects and when to apply knowledge, considering the effects it might have . Applying knowledge with understanding so it has the wanted effect . Solomon's famous wise decision would not have been wise at all if the women had said , go ahead and cut the baby in two, and the baby was cut in two - as he applied his 'trick' at the wrong time and with the wrong people . But he judged the situation right . He was presented with the knowledge and facts of the case ( although disparate ), and his own knowledge garnered previously. He HAD to have Understanding beyond that disparate knowledge as the 'knowledge' / information he was being given was in conflict . He understood the situation and what was playing out . His wisdom was in considering all this and making the right decision which led to a better outcome . Which is why Solomon was said to be wise . Anyway . Dont take my word for it . Understanding and Wisdom are firmly cemented 'up there' beyond the 'Abyss of Knowledge' - in the Supernal Triangle ... just below 'Godhead'. And getting through that Abyss , with humankind's knowledge , through to Understanding and Wisdom ie our application of our knowledge , I would venture to say , is Humankind's biggest challenge for this age . So please stop putting 'knowledge' above them .... on the crown of God . Especially at this low stage of our development .

Okay . Good . Its like a Koan . Now, the other 6 meanings ?

L. V . X . ' Light in Extension.'

... which , apparently , is the Supreme Sin . So I must be a ' heretic ' .

Well, according to 'Our Master' ; أنا الحَقيقة

God has a lot more than real knowledge , my friend .... as she is also Sophia ... Wisdom. And Wisdom is beyond Understanding . And Understanding is beyond Knowledge . Do you know of , 'Fatima - The Rope Maker ? ' .

Aboriginal Wires . ( https://www.wires.org.au/ ) A woman is driving through the countryside and she runs over a goanna "Oh my God, the poor creature ..... its still alive ! " So she grabs the car blanket off the back seat, throws it over the goanna, wraps it up a bit and manages to get it in the boot, and speeds off along to the next town . When she gets there she is wondering what to do and sees this sign ; " Aboriginal Wires .... we take care of injured native and indigenous animals . - no dogs or cats . " "OH! That's perfect ! " So she pulls up gets out the car and goes in " I am so sorry, I have run over one of your goannas , I didnt mean to , he is still alive . I feel so bad ... I hope its not a totem of your ? I didnt mean it , I just came around a corner and .... ' And the Aboriginal man there interrupts her " Hey, Lady, its okay, you didnt mean it and it happens a fair bit , thats why we are here . We will take care of him, where is he ? " " He is wrapped up in a blanket in my car boot ." So he calls to his assistant ; " Hey Jackie, come help me get this goanna out this ladies trunk, its okay, he all wrapped up in blanket . " They do that and the lady says " Its okay, you can keep the blanket, its covered in blood anyway . " "Poor old fellah, Okay lady, we take of everything .... thanks for bringing him in and not just leaving him there . " "Oh dear, I would never do that, Thank you . " - and she drives off . They take goanna inside , put him on a vet's table, and unwrap him . The assistant asks ' Well, what we do now ? " The other answers .... " I take him home for dinner .... yum yum ! "

Everyday , still, I show appreciation and give thanks

... and then onwards , up hill, over moor, down into little gullies with creeks waterholes and littoral rain forest ( I luv cabbage palm forests that grow around these pristine creeks ) or bigger coves with beaches like Garie beach 'Burning Palms ' ; and all the way to 'Stanwell Park ' ... where the National Park ends From there the rest is best done by motorcycle , a road cut into the cliffs (and another string of little beach towns ) ... check that road bridge in the distance .... peeps be riding down from Sydney just to blast across it This is all my home stamping ground What a beautiful planet we live on Booglebar ( thankyou ) 'Big Mum' .

Watamolla Good swimming 'hole' and diving spot (off the cliff) and beach ; Looking east from the cliff ; Then it was up over the next ridge and down into the gully of littoral rainforest and 'MY" spot a little cove at Curracarong . Man what a spot ! Tiny sand beach in a little cove ( or no sand and rocks if there had been storms ) , going out to cliffs , a sea ledge nearby where you could spear fish ( I had a three part hand spear you could screw together ). A beutiful crystal creek for water . Yu go up creek just a little, great camp site, native grass , various trees that are bent over and twisted from coastal weather ... just right ti fit a small tent under . nearby is a cave , in case of storms ... man that cave ! Its small , I slept in it one night ... the things that happened ! Talk about ancient energy , it seemed to be half filed with a midden - years later I find its an ancient important canmpsite in there that archaeologists have begun to investigate . A bit further up creek a beautiful pristine swimming hole with a square flat rock near the middle that you can sleep on . Like a 'pontoon' . Behind that is a waterfall that has braided through the rocks and in spaces behind that are little hollows and caves and the whole thing is covered with moss, lichens , rare orchids and native carnivorous plants, sundews, etc . on dusk I or we ( sometimes I would do a trip with someone for a day or two and just go to this place only, the long way around ... LONG way, you can drive in , park and walk for 1/2 hr to get there ) would put lit candles in the hoolws behind the falling water and illuminate the whole waterfall from the inside Curracurrang; But yes, sometimes taking a companion can be just as much as fun ; sils Oh ! I just had a memory . I am camped out on the flat rock with GF . I had this little 3 candle 'candelabra' thing on a stand that screwed apart , so that was set up , I had made some exotic food at home and bought that, with a few nice utensils ... and a champagne bucket with a bottle of champy .. having a romantic candle light dinner ... and this hiker comes slogging through the bush after dusk and The look on his face ! " What are yas doin out here in the middle of nowhere having a ... ??? Anyways ... I cant stop now ... I am going to continue south , next stop nearby is up the next ridge and the top of the cliffs , where, the moors drain, not down a gully to a creek but a creek that flows off the cliff top in a high waterfall . Known for the winds that push the waterfall back up the cliff and back into the creek at the top . Curracurrong ; Its actually a great place for a shower on a hot day

I have heard that traditionally ( 'before whitefellah ' ) some Aboriginal people used to keep Pelican's as a pet . I am assuming they where coastal people who did not have dingo. They would get them when young and apparently the adults would still return to feed them . Then .... after that I am not sure ... they might have been dinner ? Hmmm reminds me of joke , I better put it in laugh thread . For me, I did a lot of body surfing , snorkelling and lounging around the beach ... with NO ONE anywhere about . In paradise ! I know one is supposed to go at least two up , but .... meh ! I'd take off alone ... a board is too big and heavy , a face mask and snorkel can fit in a backpack and I would be off .... lone adventurer along the 'coastal track' ; Coastal 'moors ' ( Aussie style ) on the ridges of the rolling hills that run perpendicular to the coast ; beautiful low scrubby vegetation that bursts into a variety of wild flowers in winter , where they meet the coast are spectacular sandstone cliffs, then the track would descend down to a gully, a cove, usually a creek, so some fresh water , or a larger area with a beach .... then up, along coastal cliffs, back down, another beach, and so on. I'd do it for days . Ferry from Cronulla, across Port hacking to Bundeena / Jibbon beach , which is in The Royal National Park, and you're there ! And camp there ... next day . you're off !

The local clerics, getting very impatient of Nasruddin's antics * began to debate if he had real knowledge or was faking it. So they invited him to deliver the kutbah at the Mosque on Friday to test him . Sensing a trap , the Mulla had time to prepare. The word had got out and many where eager to hear what he had to say , so he began ; "Ohhhh My people ! Do you know what I am about to say to you ? " 'No we do not . " " Harumph ! How then could I speak to people as ignorant as you ! " and he walked out . So hatching a plan, the clerics invited him back next Friday . Nasruddin agreed . .... "Ohhhh My people ! Do you know what I am about to say to you ? " "Yes we do ! " Some of them called out . ' Then, there is no need to repeat it . " and he walked out . Not to be outdone, they developed a better plan and invited him yet again .... "Ohhhh My people ! Do you know what I am about to say to you ? " A Cleric called out ; " Some of us do, and some us don't. " Said the Mulla ; " Then, the people that do know can tell those that don't know. " and walked out . ( In case he is unknown to the reader : https://muslimheritage.com/mulla-nasruddin-khodja/ .

I remeber one day I am riding my motorcycle to work and 3 km before Cronulla, over the last big hill before you can see the ocean was .... fog ? ! At that time of day . Iget into the shopping centre and its THICK , everything smells of salt . I go to the Post Office where I worked as express parcel deliverer ( get off my Triumph Bonneville and onto a Honda 90 ) and its empty ! Where is every one ? One girl there goes ' Looking at the surf, the Point is pumping . That mist was sea spray , I hoped on a Honda and putted down there . HUGE never seen it like that , the break went from the point, across three beaches all the way half way across Bate Bay . No way I am going out in that . But 3 guys where out there . One got mashed ... and recovered ... just, had to get helped out at the rocks . One bailed and took refuge on the lee of Shark Island (my old spear fishing spot ) Anothe did a beutiful smooth ride and got out 3 beaches away ! THEN this old guy jumps in, no board , swim fins and a hand plane ! - remember them, for body surfing ? What swim out he had ! he actually caught a wave and surfed it , took a dive at the bottom, survived called it quits after one and came in via wash to the rocks , to a huge applaud of half the town on the point watching . Not much mail got delivered that day . These look tiny compared to that day ; Bate Bay and Cronulla point ( far left ) bat

Well .... I was on a boat and dolphins where surfing the wake . I jumped on one's back and called out 'Throw me a rope ! " And I water skied on the dolphin all the way back to the marina !

I like watching them land on water

Here ya go folks ! I can answer any questions you have on this ... as long as they dont come from ' Jamyang Khedrup ' . A central 'kingdom' / palace / capitol , on a high plateau of mountainous peaks with deep inhabitable fertile valleys between them encirled by a circular river and surrounded by other moutain peaks with various settlements in them . Other rivers branch out with other valley settlements . around it at the 4 directions are other mountain ranges / different 'countries'. First, let's target this circular river as that is an unusual feature and see if the surrounding area matches any candidates : here is one , just happens to be in the area previous research on other aspects and subjects related indicated - I just did a quick search to get an image of this river and found a new better one than the others I have previously used Towards the bottom right corner - it pretty clear AND unusual . And it just so happens, guess what this image was from ? Okar Research Okar Research: Ancient Shambhala: The Oxus, Kabul & Sita Rivers Okar research has a good reputation too . lets zoom in a bit ; central Plateau of peaks surrounded by 4 other mountain ranges in the four cardinal directions . Zoom more : Anyone that knows a little history and the local geography : to the east is Wakhan Corridor, straight into Tibet . To the west is BMAC and ancient civilisation unknown to the West until 1970 ! Very advanced, they where in Pamirs, along the Margiana crescent of alluvial desert deltas, along the ancient Oxus River . Over the Kush and had relations with Indus valley Civilisation . What also made this kingdom great is that it was on intersection of two major ancient trade routes . coming along the alluvial desert deltas north of Himalayas - Talamarkan , the south through Samarkand ... OR into Samrkand from the east corridor , south down the Oxus, across the south kara kum desert via the margiana desert Deltas (norther Afghanistan ) and across to Mesopotamia. OR / AND over the Kusk, down the Indus and via IVC boats , via sea to 'Dilman' then up the Gulf to Mesopotamia . Back then via one of these routes , BMAC lapis lazauli , carnelian, etc reached Egypt . From the west side , scripture records this place as a new and wonderful experiment in social arrangements settlements, good and fair governance and idealistic and egalitarian principles ... so much so that people flocked there and began to depopulate surrounding cultures . There is a LOT of other indicators and references , many many more all pointing in this direction . I am not going to write it all out again here , as I already have extensive and detailed posts on this subject in various places in this forum , very clearly, we have found the location of Shambala ... without even having to split the name in two and try to find 200 people with a surname like that and conclude they where the same person and change the time period and include all of western Asia up to Turkey and riddle it with prejudice, egotism, false claims and outright bullshit and confuse a location with a person / 'King' , rabt crazily about Bon and some schoolboy nemesis and throw in some potty language and personal insults to boot ! Dude !

Nah . I have all the references , you just too scared to demand them You can try being rude and crude and insulting and breaking the rules here, you can try and claim 'Royal authority' ... good God man ! You even tried to claim this was an official pronouncement from the Royalty of Norway, or some such rubbish . me ? I prefer to use facts, images maps, comparative histories, accounts . OTHER PEOPLES valid and researched points of view , satellite imagery .... the intelligent reader can then decide who is better Crazy potty mouth , or intelligent research . Ummm ... in case you didnt notice it .... I MENTIONED Bon and then YOU went off on a tirade, you insulted them, you said they where cannibals, then you said you had Bon friends, who you would never insult ( and in the process accusing me of more insane stuff like affirming you would insult your own friends , but I probably do because I live with kangaroos . The you started going on a about school companions who you dont like related to Bon ... Bon this ... Bon that , Bon is bad , etc etc ... YOU cant shutup about Bon ! Where as I continually keep bringing this back to the LOCATION of Shambala , YOUR subject mate ! and one YOU keep veering away from and cluttering up with your many prejudices . can you see how stupid and silly your posts have become ? I am sure others can . Nah . I am going on old descriptions of the location , nothing New Age about that . Actually YOUR more modern political Buddhist interpretations are closer to the New Age than mine are ! No, I am going to CONTINUE talking about the REAL location of Shambala as this is what this thread is SUPPOSED to be about . Your desperate attempts at diversions are not working , when I am finished dusting you up and your silly ideas, I will be posting the maps that any one can see IS the REAL location of Shambala . Ha ha LOL ... read the paragraph above this ! Then why the Hell did you not title the thread that ? or did things get too tricky for ya and now you are trying to move the goalposts . ? Hmmmmmmmmmmm ? Yours is political, bias, full of potty talk , illogical and obviously a mish mash of your own prejudices .

That count would be 10 if I had left this thread alone !