Nungali

You keep repeating that . I dont see what it has to do with the location of Shamballa which is what you titled this thread and started writing about .... sorta . Dude . I didnt send you any information . I said above that I have posted a wealth on the subject elsewhere, including potential locations and matching satellite imagery with description form scripture . You say I sent you info and you read it . I didnt send you any info and now you say its in MY imagination and I have not located it . I have situated it, its not from my imagination and I didnt send you any information ... yet you have read ot and think I have not situated it . Errrr .... wot ? Tell ya what .... go tell anyone that Shamballa was the west Mongol Empire all the way to Turkey and see what response THEY give you . By following the texts that where written about the myth much later and used for political ends by interpreting events into their modern times . The traidition of Shamballa can be traced back a lot further ... this is a latter politicised tradition , a type of propaganda ... which should be clear to anyone that sees a ' conquering bloodthirsty Khan ' - Ghengis Khan's grandson as a spiritual hero / 'Universal Messiah '. And that whole aspect of messiah comes from a more ancient myth ( that Judaism and Christianity ended up adopting ) comes from ancient Zoroastrianism ( The Sayosant ) , which holds an original version of the that Kalachakra was developed from . There is clear geographical discretion in there ... it does not match the western Mongol empire . You seem to be relying on one one indicator ... a matching of who killed the King of Baghdad ... my matching is on multiple fronts and comes with comparisons, on many level from information within the text . You are trying to argue against something you have not even looked at yet . Why ? When ? Under Byzantine or under Islamic occupation ... what period of it, what area ? What has the east bank of the Med got to do with it ? I did google it ... not sure what you are on about I dont see it all as the same name as Shamballa ??? Its a totally different linguistic root anyway . But I doubt your comparison of words was based on any linguistic principles . This is getting much worse now . You arent any type of scholar apparently ; Shambala is a Sanskrit term meaning "place of peace/tranquility/happiness." - 'Sambu ' You just outlined how YOU matched words by sound ... with no linguistic evidence of a transmission , you identify the very term of your writing subject here - Shambala , with a far off place becasue it SOUNDS like it ... you dont even seem to realise its Sanskrit and yet ... I am the one going on hunches and impressions ? Now we are VERY far from academia on this and the above is rather ... well, frankly wacky . First you said I was way too early and it was not in the Bronze Age (after I suggest you look for hints there ) . Now you say I should not say it does not refer to the Bronze Age and old antiquity . DUDE ! You where the one that said it didnt and I was the one that said it did . WTF ? and then go on with more wacky word sound matching ... well not even that , now you introduce anagrams as valid ! Baal is Shambala or balshamin backwards and that is because " mongols were subverters who's mission was to overthrow, and overcome." ... even tough they are also ' Universal messiah's ' W O W ! Fringe writing and wackiness often goes off on such bizarre tangents as this . Its very indicative . yeah ... like I said , they used the story for political ends .... you just admitted it ! he was a nasty mongol murdering warrior with a 'gruesome heritage ' and then after all that , for political reasons , as you say " " was later purified into a deified form by Ngorchen Kunga Zangpo who totally pushed back the military aspect of Hulagu and turned him into the world Savior of the Kalachakra. " And thats how the dates got mixed up ... i like I said, they used a myth and projected it on to people of a latter time to further their political ends . Nah .

Oh - O ! https://publications.dainst.org/journals/efb/article/view/2596/7095 Comments : This is a paper about the last years findings in Gobekli Tepe. To put it simple: the entire extraordinary hypothesis of this site is now under heavy criticism after excavations in and around the site. There has been something odd in this story, to begin with the "all hunter-gatherer" society starting point is wrong, as datation point to Pre-Pottery Neolithic A, as other Neolithic sites in the Near East. The structure of the site is now totally challenged, with stratigraphy altered by water flows and new buildings below the monumental area. Everything said about this archaeological site is probably wrong, or should be heavily reformulated. I found the mention of round builds being modified to become more rectangular over time very interesting. I’m glad to see some more conservative interpretations being publicized. The whole idea of religious institutions being the driving force behind the whole Neolithic revolution never sat well with me.

I see .... you where 'chosen' specially for your 'divine initiation' . I am sure they are not the same as wordy ones. Wordy ones have this ......... objective validity .... if you know what I mean ? And if you think 'worldly' initiations are not necessary FIRST, boy do you have problems coming fast ! The proper sequence - across the board [and by that I mean I have experience and knowledge in various cultures across time history and location regrading initiations - in my specialist area of cultural anthropology- not just A system , and certainly not a 'system' that involves only oneself and some 'divine' process experienced ( and that you experience and now give some validity too , even though your adventures here started and continued the way they did - that is confessing psychosis, mental health treatment, depression, psychic tortures, all offered up info from yourself) ] is a worldly level nearly all ; three degree system relating to worldly mysteries in the sequence of birth life death . If you miss that, well ... simply ... disastrous , and even moreso to attempt to build on top of this non foundation with higher practices ! )The next series is not worldly, as it relates to the after death worlds and experiences . I dont think you know much about initiation. I am sure you had an experience ... and you have clearly outlined it ... its a psychotic experience and the thing is .... its a fine line ... many people who are clearly psychotic, even to you yourself, will show indicators relating to the fantastic, occult magic, etc . It is fairly clear to the reasonable outsider though who is confused and who is .... less confused . And also, if you think anyone gets through the doors to actually achieve a REAL initiation and it wasn't an invitation and a choosing , you have not a clue what you are taking about - all initiation candidates have been 'chosen', it doesnt happen otherwise . And if you are not 'chosen' no matter what you and others do on any plane ... it doesnt happen . One of the values if undertaking proper magical training is it has very clear warnings abut and essential practices to help protect people from these confusions . of course, without them one can easily tip over the edge ... but everyone knows that ! Would you fix your house electricity by fiddling with the wires without an electricians advice or knowledge ? Again, you are like the guy that bought that car that broke down . And telling me you are sorry that I was not chosen for my initiations isnt going to change any of that , and neither does it address any of the points in my post that you used for that response . Perhaps you should stay within the range of those alternating diatribes of acceptance and outrage against this psuedo Christian type childhood monster God you say is torturing you and stop trying to pretend you have some special insight ( due to your psychotic experience ) regarding this subject .... which you clearly dont have . You type of guys come through here all the time ... over the years . I even know what you are going to try on next .

One could even postulate that doing you true Will gives you the best feeling . ... let's see now, going on memory , its actually a promise ... of Nuit , I think the word used is more than 'feeling better' its 'ecstasy' . Memory ....m he ! I thought I better look it up; its actually ' unimaginable joys ' ... since I was referring to this life / incarnation we have now , ie for 'the living ' . Here is the line ; " I give unimaginable joys on earth: certainty, not faith, while in life, upon death; peace unutterable, rest, ecstasy; nor do I demand aught in sacrifice. " A little different to your standard male God . .

..... achieved enlightenment and surpassed the need for further incarnation ? No , I will suffer more, become a Bodhisattva , return and try and help the others . Why ? Out of compassion, of course, and love and consideration . But why are you interested in that stuff ? ..... because that makes me feel better .

I ran a workshop too ... and failed everyone too ! Dude ! But I liked your last sentence, because that is all everyone does ! If you want a common denominator for human behaviour, thats it ! What, you think Mother Teresa didnt help all those people because it didnt make her feel good ? You think Buddha didnt teach the alleviating of suffering because that didnt make him feel good ? You think God didnt make the garden of Eden because ..... I remember years back, when it was in vogue , a hare Krishna saying to me how hard it is , getting up chanting, making that food and offering it to Ksishna . I said , 'But you LOVE doing it dont you ? Thats why you do it . " he was honest enough to agree . Why am i doing this now , and why are you here ? It makes us feel better . And if it doesnt ..... some deep Nungali wisdom for ya ...... .... go and do something else then !

If you haven't read through this thread you will have missed a lot . Yes, that is one 'precursor' , mostly due to the references about love and will . Not literally but one must understand what he MEANT by those terms, and within that understanding of the principle (not the words ) it exists in the earliest civilisations and spiritual teachings, mostly as I noted and posted about in this thread and elsewhere in the concept of Avestan Khvarinah , which appears in earlier posts here . Its all laid out in the earlier post . No ? Have you read his auto biography ? Plenty of positive in that and a load of fun and excitement ... everything from mountaineering in the Himalayas ( he actually held some records there ) to introducing psychedelics to European modern culture - he actually used his abilities as a chemist to synthesise psilocybin . But you probably mean 'spiritual ' positives ... advancements, successes . Well, according to him, his main purpose was deliver this message , for his time and into the future ( Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law ) ..... here we are ... still talking about it and some even appreciating its value ! regardless of how much of a dick he was ... or wasn't . Again, read my stuff on identifying this principle in ancient Zoroastrianism and how it entered the hermetic stream in modern Europe via the recommended reading ( by many occult schools ) as 'Chaldean oracles' .... knowledge, writings etc . These are the people that Magi came from ..... the very roots of the word 'magic' itself . Certainly ! Come out as much worse than that . On the one hand he was poo pooed for flaunting bi sexuality , drug taking ( wtf ... he was a psychonaut .... so am I ! ) promiscuity . Are we still in Victorian England ? On the other hand , he was bitch . Should he have mocked Israel Regardie so hypocritically and publicly for being gay due to a silly argument that Regardie soon forgot about and even partially accepted responsibility for ? IMO NO ! In many ways I think he was a turd . The funny thing is , I have undertaken a series of initiations and teachings written and designed by him and I never detected that side of him in any of them . Sure some stuff was challenging, depending on who you are , of course . Even if he is a total fake arsehole .... the benefits we could get from some of his teachings are immense ... even if they are lifted or plagiarised ... in the case of 'True Will ' / Khvaranah .... or the citing of Swinburne in ritual ..... it works ! To me, thats the main thing . And I and many others have been introduced to this stuff by his writings . Even to the extent that , if you are not familiar with it, I urge you to read up on the Khvaranah and contemplate your true life's purpose, what is the reason you are here , what is your inherent genius you have to offer , what is the thing you love most to do and get real and lasting joy and spiritual satisfaction out of ? I hope you are already doing that , or if not, I urge you to find it ( it makes life worthwhile, a joy , a want to be here , a good life ... how it supposed to be ) nearly to the point of proselytising ! ... but I know some just won't have it or believe it could be that good . We have even set great things up for those poor people who cannot manifest much on the physical plane (on my commune here, I mean ) ..... they just wreck it or abuse it ... and you , eventually . Ho-hum ..... such is life .

I note you insist your qualifications lie somehow with relatives and ancestors .... again . My examples where examples, not relating to your family or ancestors .... do you rally think soeone's great auntie, pressing the tuxedo of even a GOD relates to the veracity of the location of Shamballa ? I also note you show no interest or querie in the loads of information I have posted here on Daobums . Whatever . And by the way ' he who defeats the King of Baghdad' is about the King not the place itself . If you are going to rely on this one piece of informative prediction and disregard the wealth of other indicators, culturally, geographically and archaeologically with also the input of comparative scriptural studies ..... again, whatever . And I dont think ANYONE is going to accept that Shamballa is actually the west Mongolian Empire all the way to Turkey . You just haven't demonstrated anything like that .

I wasnt going to but I did try to watch that video, I lasted about 15 seconds until the absolutely WRONG assertions started. I'm not sitting thorough an hour of that ! Bindy, if you have specific questions I would be happy to answer in another thread about that .

Bindi. I am sure you realise that by not going on reading any books, or direct teachings from original source and relying on one internet youtube is not the way to go . As far as supporting Crowley or not, thats not really the issue here , its a bout the thread title and that concept . Unfortunately everyone seems to think its an original Crowley concept, hence that focus . I'd rather stay on the topic of the principle rather than start watching youtubes about Crowley and commenting on their veracity or not . I mean, look what the uneducated have been saying here ! I cant imagine the rubbish that appears on any youtube about it . if it makes people happy, then yes, you can see him as crazed homosexual drug taking satanic baby eater ..... whatever . And I openly admit that most of that was not only his fault himself, but he actually cultivated it .... probably to keep people that are thinking like that away from him . The man's goods and bads, valuable teachings and quackery should be the subject for a different thread , here it is the principle of True Will and some are having enough trouble with that alone already . I will let Michael speak for himself as he might have different ideas than me ( ) and he may well be a bad, nasty , homo, drug taking Satanist baby eater himself .

Au contra-ire . YOU have been ignoring the obvious, shifting opinions, moving goal posts, claiming a clearly defined term means other things that YOU want them to mean , its clear you have great mental confusion and troubles, you lament and rage about that . You claim to have read all of Crowley's books but seem surprisingly ignorant of his explanations for the most popular of his phrases . My expertise ( I actually would not call it that, its academic and practical experience - I know people get angry at that as they dont have it themselves and want to speak with authority and be heard that way , on subjects they have little familiarity with - and all of this is a 'dynamic' certain people have all over this site, on many subjects . If anything I am seeing the BIGGEST picture here , your the one that is narrowing a vast and spiritual (and ancient, by the way ) concept down to will and want and desires . I know full well what greater liberty causes , thats a basic training nodule of initiation and one of the first cautions !

Well of course ! One needs to choose with free will to try and find their True Will , one needs to select a specific direction to get to any destination .... one cant say ... "Thats not the destination, thats just someone trying to find the destination ." Thats right , and thats exactly what I was talking about . Why would I suggest an exercise in trying to find your True Will or even what job you might 'like' was the True Will or the job itself ?

The becoming part is 'finding' your True Will and 'becoming' the person your True Wil directs . The doing is that person who has found or 'become' ( a mode of living , a way, a calling, a 'career', your 'contribution to society' ) is the 'becoming something' what they do is their .... doing . s . First , find your true will, then do it . Its a two stage process, Crowley talked about the finding and doing of it a lot , in various place Glad you finally agree that it is what is under investigation and not desires and free will and wants and all the other things you previously claimed it to be . Did you know consistency is one of the four main principles in clear communication ( and also dog and horse training and brining up children ) ? No . that is not my take at all ! Did you think I was saying that somewhere ? No wonder 'I " confuse you . I dont think anything like that . More like , my take is Crowley is urging us to seek and do our True Will and by that I mean ALL the lengthy explanations and research I have offered here on that subject , including its concept roots in ancient Zoroastrianism ... I even tracked it through hermetic works to his own curriculum ! He certainly says people will do wrong ... even if they 'find themselves ' , which he isnt advocating ... thats a very simplistic and wrong terminology to describe it . therefore, your above therefore is cancelled out I am not and Crowley never said I was free to do my will , he postulated a society with people doing their True Will would need less rules and have less infractions , but he also certainly postulates as well, the issues. complexities and philosophies , in such a society, regarding crime and punishments , so how can everythng be allowed by him in his speculations if he talks about crimes and punishments ? No, he is talking about restrictions of expressing True Will .... stuff like , little Stevie wanted and indicated ( himself and by other signs ) he always wanted to be an ' animal handler ' . But his father insisted he was going to be a doctor . The typical uneducated and uninvolved view is ; 'you are annoying me, I want to smash your face in , I am not allowed to , help help my 'will' is being restricted " Exaggerated ? Well, thats pretty much the dynamic that has been playing out in this thread since 2019 .

I have personal experience and a VERY different story ... from one that ACTUALLY undertook a series of bona fide initiations ... physically, in the real world ( not read about them, not imagined them, not 'did it myself on myself' . not mistook a psychotic episode for it , not made it up , not imagined it, not etc etc and my experience has been entirely different ! In fact, I could nearly list the opposite of what you say . I got verbally instructed ( and in other ways ), they didnt inflict madness, I gained, I didnt 'loose everything ' , I have a LOT to show, on many levels . Some people here ( that tried to short cut learnings and paths, or have other 'problems' ) are like someone that bought an old bomb car from a shady car yard, , they didnt do research, they didnt check it out first, they dont know about cars or mechanics or how to check it out . They had a lot of trouble with that car , it kept breaking down and stranding them. Now they are advising us in their 'wisdom' ; " Dont buy a car , any type of car . They are trouble. And the guys that sell them will rip you off ... all of them ! And cars dont get you where you need to go , I am still stuck on the side of the road after mine failed ... I been camped out here by the freeway for 10 years now ... hurling abuse at all the cars and people that wizz by ....... thinking they are going somewhere ... But they aren't, I tells ya ! They aren't !

and now you are claiming that when Sufis speak of the Beloved there is no feeling of connection with anything outside the self . The majorty of Sufis practice connection with the beloved as an external force illuminating the heart within and THEN supplying the longing that was seeking that love . There may be certain branches of Sufism that understand its all internal , but that would be rare and what you claimed does not count for Sufism generally at all . For example, in my own Sufi initiation, the group I was with had that 'realisation' in our emulation ; Mansur el Hallaj - who himself was killed for such an assertion ..... but that was very radical and out the mainstream group .

a partial quote and in the wrong context . Without those a snippet of ANY quote is meaningless and when used to try and justify some stupid and untenable position - worse ! I just see it as another quote, out of context to try and give your unrelated comments to that quote some type of depth . I will leave that failing snake and ladders game up to you . Are you suggesting study, learning , reading of texts and taking in what they say ... for years of study research and practice , have as much insight as some mouthy beginner ? If you are , get on the end of the queue .... there have been hundreds of you guys come through here - you offer nothing except such desperate mouthing with no scholarly input ! if you think having the 'quality of a beginner's mind ' ( regarding, magic, cultivation, Daoism, etc . ) is laughing a lot and dreaming of animals ..... look, I am just going to say ; ' Carry on ..... whatever . '

How does 'Eve' fit in then ? " But I hate hatred. " Indeed ! The one thing that I really dont like, and I find annoying and it puts me in a bad mood and nothing really ever works properly after it and nearly everyone does it , and its very annoying is ..... complaining ! I hate it when people complain ... its so annoying .....

Ummmm .... thats not love . ( If it was, it would be on a par with domination and submission 'sex dynamic' which might play out in other areas . ) - Thats a dog cow tailing * to its Master . * means sucking it up to please someone else

'Just doing it' is a good way to find out . You might find a new course of action or a decision is or is not your True Will , but at least you find out, you are not just left there wondering about it in a situation that you are not happy with . of course, a certain reign on ' reckless behaviour' might be considered .

Being a mother . Does that surprise you ? Or a helicopter engineer , or painter , or simply a 'wanderer' ... a 'traveller in time and space ' , a nurse, a ..... bodhisattva . Or conversely, a new born spirit that desires to learn and grow . But you know all this ... as you have read all of Crowley's works ... as you previously assured me . The True Will .

here, our helpful demon asks : " What tools did Crowely give us to find the "True Will"? " This is a fair answer, but the other answer is ; he either left no tools ( for the 'outsider' ) or he left a wealth of tools (if one will choose to undertake training ) . As you say ' many forms ' and 'an inner process' . This is the process of the series of initiations all designed to illuminate and bring to realisation such things as True Will, True Self and what lies beyond ' he aims of the egotistical personality' . Eventually, according to Crowley, within his system , after a certain level of initiation with realisation, Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the law, changes into Do what thou Wilt IS the whole of the Law . Humanity and most individuals are looong way from that yet . But all through his writings are hints and indications of processes that help . One of the first is remembering and recognising past lives ... to get a bigger picture of your ' dhama / kharma , also in rather obscure documents eg . great stuff about it in writings (again in obscure sources ) about bringing up children and being observant of any hints they show and offering full encouragement in such directions ( replete with warnings to the parents about projections of self on to them ) ... there are many more . But in this situation ... a thread like this , it seems better deal with the 'primary emergency ' present . For now, we have to tourniquet this severed leg ..... antibiotics ca be administered later . Its rather essential to any type of society forming , its also the basic precept of its manifestation in Zoroastrianism ( via the principle of Khvarenah ) - this respect of individuality , it marked their societies right through until the Persian Empire, where people like Cyrus and the system encouraged diversity , ethnicity, other religions and philosophies and did not try to force others into their own same mould . This still continues today , in that stream , with the Baha'i Faith ; 'Unity in Diversity' . Yeah . Anyway ... you can field these ones . I am finding this all rather cyclic ; certain people seem to come to a realisation but then a week later they are back on the same track they where before their 'realisation' < insert dog chaising tail gif here >

It appears you are saying that 'Shamballa' is the region joined by Haluga - Turkey to Baghdad to Afghanistan to Western Tibet ? There is so much wrong with that ! And also you dont really offer any evidence . For example : " ... let's roll this back and sum it up quickly: there's a Buddhist Empire left behind in Tibet by Kublai Khan extending into China, but his brother Hulagu had his own private empire extending from Pakistan/Afghanistan and the Tibetan border areas, all the way to Baghdad/middle of Turkey, Konya etc...and Hulagu's empire was Drikung Kagyu. " Okay, that is a geographical description . " And bingo! Hulagu's empire of "Hulagid" Ilkhanids aka "The Ilkhanate" fits the description of Shambhala ... " How ? You haven't even listed the description of Shamballa to have anything to compare this geography to . And besides, there is much more descriptive material about Shamballa that DOES fit certain areas but since you have recorded no descriptive material at all for comparisons ..... I fail to see how a 'bingo ! ' manifests ? perhaps you are relying on this : " ...and the Savior of the world known as the King of Shambhala. It's fitting that Hulagu ruled over a puzzle of faiths, including Christians, Jews, Muslims and Hulagu's own Buddhists. He was thus the savior and god-like figure for all those assembled faiths. It's noteworthy that Hulagu's empire outlasted him by far, with an offspring of successors-descendants of his family lineage that lasted for 80 long years. We're thus in presence of the messianic King of Shambhala of the Kalchakra prophecy. " The saviour of the world aspect ? It appears you have decided that Hulagu Khan is this person, and by default , if he is the Saviour then his 'secret' Empire must be Shamballa and bingo, that makes part of the Mongol Empire ... going all the way to Turkey , Shamballa . There is so much wrong with this . It doesnt matter whether your great grand auntie did the laundry for the King of Denmark or your Uncle used to clean the Mona Lisa , what matters , in this thread, is the quality of your research . I suggest you look at multiple factors ; indications , geography OTHER histories , the archaeology of the Bactria- Margiana Archaeological complex , the ( Buddha before THE Buddha ) teacher from Central Asia , Tonpa Shenrab Miwo, who bought reformed Bo to Tibet, creating 2nd stage Tibetan Bon , the Zang Zhung Empire and my posts here on the location of Shamballa ( many of them spread through about 3 threads that collates geography ( including comparative satellite imagery ) archaeology, history, mythology , comparative scripture and the spread of 'beneficent consciousness' , through 'certain teachers' that appear to have come out of ice age refugia in north Europe and Siberia and whose teachings passed into forms of Indo- European 'Bo' shamanism into eventually Zoroastrianism and Hindu religions and via Siberian Buryartian Bo and other forms of Mongolian shamanism into Zhang Zung and then Tibet. Also you time frame is out by many centuries . Try looking at the end of the Late Bronze Age , during the 'Bronze Age Collapse' period .

A bit of a syntax problem now ?

yes, it seems you have one ! Beginner's mind is the one that thinks a lone crab can crawl out of a bucket and a bunch of crabs cant , because when they 'crawl over each other' they 'pull each other down ' Typical textbook lounge chair 'wisdom' .... which is totally removed from any observations of nature, the actual event or things used as the example .