Nungali

2.2 . The house is not on fire. 2.3 The house is both not on fire and on fire. 2.4 The house is neither not on .......

^ Hmmmm ..... that video up there looks like my past martial arts teachers all lined up . One dynamic / skill that I have had to develop in studying martial arts and the systems of spirituality / magick is a type of 'reverse engineering ' .... getting back to that first guy in the line . It involves a VERY wide range of studies , background, comparisons and a gradual build up of knowledge until you have some type of data base to navigate by . This results in insights that can provide keys to the more obscure sections . These insights are often keys to interpretations .

you left out 1.5 . God is none of the above . 1.6 . God is all of the above . 1.7 God is neither none of the above or all of the above . 1.8 God is both .......

No on answer for all . 'True love' is mostly an ideal . I think the neurochemical explanation is not about love but about attraction / willingness to 'mate' and finding a suitable breeding partner, fascination, infatuation, etc . of course, this is all screwed up with other stuff people mistake it for , love being one . Is it ephemeral and magic ? Yes, it can be . People hink love is all different things . We used to do this exercise - List all the things you 'love' , doesnt matter , as long as you have used the word 'love' to describe your relationship with it ; Eg I love my wife . I love my job. ...... watching football .... a cold beer after work .... etc . Then list all the things that make up that 'love' eg ; the last might be Love = reward x refreshment x relaxation x inebriation. In eliminate the other stuff, as we understand that . and then we are left with love . That can easily be understood as an 'additive' and can be removed .... love, in this case is familiarity or addiction to the things it supplies ( reward, refreshment , etc ) . But with things like 'wife' or 'kids' , when we remove these terms that make up a particular type of 'love' we are still left with this 'ephemeral and magical' force that is hard to define .... but we can recognise its 'symptom' . Bottom line, I would have to say its the state of entering into 'dissolving' into another thing .... the importance of and the boundaries of the self seem unimportant and 'dissolved' .

I am wondering why the term 'wrath ' was used to oppose 'mercy ' ? I cant help but feel its the wrong word ; wrath means extreme anger and the expression of extreme anger . In years and years of studying kabbalah I never seen that translation , it has always been mercy and severity ; strict and / or harsh . Many a time here I have included this passage , its a good example of the application of these two principles; " Remember that unbalanced force is evil; that unbalanced severity is but cruelty and oppression; but that also unbalanced mercy is but weakness which would allow and abet Evil." It seems that the word chosen for translation here was done so to fit in with the theory . Also Bohme wrote very obscurely and mostly for himself and friends , leading to some to misinterpret his works .... which seem to have stuck . " However, it is clear that Böhme never claimed that God sees evil as desirable, necessary or as part of divine will to bring forth good. In his Threefold Life, Böhme states: "in the order of nature, an evil thing cannot produce a good thing out of itself, but one evil thing generates another." Böhme did not believe that there is any "divine mandate or metaphysically inherent necessity for evil and its effects in the scheme of things." - Wiki on Bohme . Also he is a 'black gnostic' like most Christians and believes in the 'Fall' of Man as the reason we are here ( the white school believes incarnation is a positive process to gain experience ). However , he was influenced by Neo-Platonism and alchemy as well , and is honoured by his inclusion as a Saint in The Gnostic Catholic ( ie. Universal ) Church in that some of his teachings penetrated and where incorporated into high grade Freemasonry ; https://sabazius.oto-usa.org/jacob-boehme/ I am interested in this bit ; " a new paradigm of personality, the functional soul as an imago Dei—the product of a resolution of conflicting unconscious drives. " This seems to suggest , and other parts of the article suggest these conflicting drives in Man originated in God .... 'in the image of ' (imago) 'God' (Dei) . Curios . I find it interesting as it is he first time I have heard of anyone ( else besides me ) refer to the soul as a resultant product of unconscious drives ! However in my case I dont see it as a product resulting from conflicting forces but as one primal drive ( in concert with a reinforcing feedback loop in 'material actions' ) . And this primal drive is unique to Man and causes us to be different from every other animal . However I totally agree with your own words here : " how vital acknowledgement of our own evil is for inner cultivation " and also vital , how these forces are generated in us and how we can develop them to positive ends . Personally, I believe the polarity only begins with Man . Mercy / Severity ( or even Mercy / Wrath ), good/ bad , etc . as many have pointed out , is a human value system . Its all based on the fact that humans are a primate and we function best in extended family groups ... thats our 'nature' - regardless of how many hermits , nuclear families or massed collectives form, thy will generate problems as they are not part of our natural way ,( unless we can change from being primates ) . So our basic wiring is within this and any ideas we have about what is good or bad , stem from this ; are we geared to be able to live well together , within that extended family / group ( good ) or are we an individual that only cares for oneself at the expense of the others in the group (evil ) . An 'evil' person has no regard for others 'in the group ' . This is the core feature of initiation ( world wide, through all societies and times ) ; naturally , Man is a wild animal, just like all the others , initiation makes people 'human' - decent social creatures that can look after and support each other , learning ( through their initiations - or other dynamics and education ) what their responsibilities are to the group , and what rewards and benefits they get back, for giving up their (totally) independent 'wild' nature . Also I liked your comments about transforming 'evil' via alchemy . One of the core principles of alchemy is 'circulation' . The basic principles in Zoroastrianism are ; Good thoughts, good deeds and good actions . Thats how they cultivate . One generates the other and visa versa . Eg They had a prohibition ( man of them ! ) relating to animals one was , if an animal ( like a sheep or chicken ) starts to be treated like / becomes , a pet , you cannot use that animal as food . Why ? Well, I am sure most people here realise its a bit weird eating your pets ... but what if you did ? First you would think about doing that , and you might convince yourself by trying to verbally convince others , then you might do the act . Unconsciously that is setting up a 'weird ' psychology internally . The act reinforces the idea and gives feedback, back into the mind , now the concept had been justified and cemented in by the action, each time its done ( 'circulation' ) its more firmly lodged and gives birth to other things and ideas ; like using things to your own advantage without thought of the thing itself ( yeah, I know this applies to vegetarianism as well - but with the Zoroastrians , ' good friendship', truth, loyalty, companionship, etc where primarily lauded - as principles which hold the group together , as above , a primary importance for primates , a pet was seen as an extension of this 'loyal companionship ' ) . before long you might be abusing things and your friends and the system and your society . The reverse applies, of course, with 'good' ; good thoughts lead to good words and deeds which give feedback into mind and circulate as healthy psychology . And these good acts should be the principles of religion ; good works - charity ( many a person recovering from mental health issues has lauded the benefit of such work , like working in a soup kitchen or offering similar assistance to others ), a few times here I have talked about the benefit of 'offerings ' ; showing appreciation (in an act ) for what you have and gratitude for it is a healthy psychological practice and will accrue benefit over time .

Depending on what you mean by 'conditioning ' .... of course there is . Just because conditioning plays such a big part, that doesnt mean that there is no original form that gets conditioned . I was subject to all sorts of conditioning in my childhood and youth , which I refused and did not take ..... so if it is 'all conditioning' , what part of 'me' rejected a system 'I' didnt want ? We do not come here as a totally blank slate ... which is what you are inferring . When you get some life experience , especially with very young children ... and a little bit more awareness of what is going on in others , then you will realise this .

It might take some time for one's true nature to be revealed , just because you and some other e people get confused about what it is does not mean it does not apply to those that are clear on it . Also it might not be a specific thing but a general thing where many manifestations of that nature might be possible . eg. if one's true nature is to be a carer one could end up as a nurse, a mother , a dog trainer , etc . Let's make that ' some people ' ...... I can form my own ideas of right and wrong , thanks . And I can easily recognise crime committed against another that isnt me .

I have never had my presents delivered with mushrooms . The presents get delivered with no side orders and the mushrooms come delivered with toast .

If one 'group' kills the infant of another 'group' should the first take revenge on the second ? https://www.newsweek.com/group-monkeys-kill-over-250-dogs-revenge-indian-town-1660683?fbclid=IwAR0bJw0vi0bmxfRs92lxu0TexvZVinSZDYFLDXxYqpzSq7l4rTwXjAJdy7k

Ohhh Man ! We need Grace .... go baby !

Meh ... what a crap definition ! I can do a LOT better Yes. And when I die , I will go into the ground and other animals and plants will live off me .... seems fair enough . " Building this particular part of your psyche with some other parts , enables you to continue on after death as well ( See ' United Fravashi" in the link above . ) Crowley also has a similar concept of this uniting that leads to a 'successful transmigration , and retaining of this life's experience , without this uniting that experience can be lost ( and I postulate must be done time and time again in cycles of incarnation until one 'gets' it .... on the 'immortal plane ' ) . The ancient Egyptian system seems based on the same principle as well ; a certain development and uniting of parts of the psyche with the body ( 'khat' - the material perishable .... ' dead fish stink ' ) is needed to gain ' eternal momentum' ( the hypotenuse ) to the formation of 'eternal shining spirit ' - Akh ; " https://forum.alchemical.garden/threads/212/#post-1349 I like this . One of our groups 'tracing boards' * / teaching aids shows various branches of magic / yoga in a type of radiating pie chart . Towards the centre we have the positive manifestations and 'forces' ( a bit like the ' drives' of psychology ) radiating out from a central white unity in various colours ; Gnana, Raja, Bakhti, hatha , Mantra, Karma - relating to Holy Kabbalah (and similar) , Sacred Magick, Acts of Worship, Ordeals, Invocations and Service - relating to Knowledge , Will, Love , Courage , Speech and Work . As these qualities radiate out from the centre they begin to loose colour and focus and eventually result in an outer band of insanity, obsession, fanaticism, paralysis and death, gossip and idleness . Then these sections continue outward and loose colour until all are joined in darkness and and outer dark ring encompasses all ; 'ignorance' . But when we where creating this and our group artist had made all these things fade into a central white light at the centre of the 'board' , where all virtues come together , I had to think of a tag to print there . After much thought we decided the central word would be ; ' Integration ' . * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracing_board

Do what thou Wilt dwai .

Well, of course ! Otherwise we would all be animal murdering / torturing , demonic , all devouring , pestilence . 'Artifices of society' can be highly spiritual. Of course they do . I dont see why an internal moral barometer can not be instilled and trained by artifices of the society we are in . In my years of study of Anthropology I have encountered many people and groups whose 'morals' and sense of 'right' seem HIGHLY at variance to others , yet WITHIN their own society and culture seem acceptable , and in some cases even desirable and moral . perhaps what you are are seeking or questioning about is an 'across the board ' measuring stick . A standard to apply to see if a society or culture has 'lost the plot ' , even though it thinks itself moral and valid . Thats a tricky one and I had to develop such a set of indicators to be able to define the stages and influences of socio-cultural decay for my 'Cultures in Crisis' paper. It wasn't easy and took a fair amount of time and research . Still, a lot of it was based more on 'logic', on a deep level , rather than 'morals ' eg ; 2 of the indicators are ; abuse of children , abuse of elders . To not do that might seem moral, superficially , but the reason it can be applied beyond morality and across the board is that a society needs the children as new members of that society , or it will die out .... so, dont kill all or too many of the children ( and here we broach the 'cruel laws of nature ' ) . The same with the elders , if they are abused or wiped out , their experience and knowledge and contribution to the groups 'intellectual property ' / survival would be lost .

Also there are societies that within that society murder is 'right' ; Thuggee , Hashishim (Society of Assasins * ) , various Islamic terrorist groups . * Here is a question to consider (regarding Hashishim society) ; is it right to murder one person and eliminate them (and thus causing a threat and fear to others similar) that was planning to influence a decision to invade your country with war ? Is it right NOT to murder them and allow the invasion to proceed and hope your military can defend your country (or group) with the loss of countless innocent lives of civilians ?

Ummmm .... your own society ? Murder is a tricky one as it technically means ' the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.' All we have to do is make that killing 'legal' ... and it is no longer 'murder' . " You boys ..... take these guns and go and shoot those people over there , they are enemies of the state , it isnt murder as we are allowing you to do it ( for us ) ..... actually , its 'heroic' . " Or if we want to murder someone like Bin Laden , we call it 'execution' ... and its justified . or, if we get rid of them before they cause us too much trouble ; ' black ops elimination' . 'Murder' is a term used to describe an act of killing not sanctioned by the state . here is my example of when murder is right : A policeman had a very sick criminal relative who was a convicted child molester , a serious offender . Somehow he ket getting off lightly, finding legal loopholes , and being a real smart arse about it . He tells the policeman that next he is going to molest his kids , and fuck them up for life .... and there is nothing he can do about it, until after the act and then he will be too late . So one night the policeman / father , off duty, puts on his police uniform, straps on his service revolver and goes around to see the other . he nocks on his door, asks him to come outside for a chat on the driveway and when he comes outside the policeman shoots him in the head . During his court case, the judge was very sympathetic , but instructs the jury that they must find him guilty of murder ; he admits he killed the man , illegally and with forethought and planning " You MUST find him guilty , however any extenuating circumstances and leniency in his punishment is my responsibility , I am the one that takes that into account , but you are the one's that decide if the act was committed ... and it was . I am the one that decides the punishment , if any is to be administered . " The jury returned after a short deliberation; ' Not guilty. ' The judge was furious, but what could he do . I consider, and the 12 unanimous jury considered , and much of the Australian public considered his act of murder justified ( even without a judge deciding )

The Judges. No . Right and wrong are a relative thing dependant on specific societies . People from those societies versed in their law do the judging . Then the judge sorts it out . That would be a wrong question for a judge , a judge would be deciding based on conditions, circumstances , application, etc. In cases where the 'persons' are from different cultural back grounds ( and different laws ) - thats why we developed inter tribal / international law . In this situation, in cases of conflicting opinion, again, a judge would sort it out . When people's do not ascribe to such 'tribunals ' or the process breaks down ; how do we sort it out ? We fight it out . I am not sure anything is beyond perspectives .

https://www.bubblebag.com/instructions_bubblebags.html

Just got me a set of 'bubble bags' . Now this is an interesting process ! and fairly easy . results where, at first, like Leb blonde , but as it dries it has a greenish colour ... a bit too much . Anyway , first attempt , so not too bad . A bit crumbly ... I would like it to be more 'elastic' .

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/mystery-of-why-magic-mushrooms-go-blue-solved/4010870.article

Well, English is a crap language for such subjects anyway .... even in psychology we adopt terms from German , in spirituality we adopt terms from eastern languages . English seems good for commerce . Wow ! You picked a good example with 'shen' Can you show ANY clear and exact consensus what the east means by that word , and then try the same to find consensus ( I am talking deep meanings here , not superficial ones ) in English what 'self' means . As far as people having a concept of what self means for them (as opposed to translating the word ) , I think they have as clear ( ... not ) an understanding of that as they do of 'God' (and again, I dont mean on a superficial level ; usually if one talks to the average person on such matters, deeply, and questions their statements , they often get more and more confused and end up describing all sorts of confusion .... and very personal specific confusions . So, to get back to my point ..... to understand 'shen' or even 'self' I would look into a wide range of subjects , when looking at the western ideas , I would look for deeper understandings within religion and psychology and not just some surface definition. Then compare it with the eastern writings and look for underlying patterns ( see my spoiler box above ) . For me , the 'truth' or the 'bona fides' of a practice lays within these underlying patterns , cultural accretions are just the clothing .

Far to many to list here .... again . I have spent years here posting about them and explaining them in detail . But primarily, as an intro to the idea and as the basic underlying denominator , you can read my 'paper' on the generations of number ( how' things' come out of 'nothing ' as inconceivable unity in paired opposites, t.hat generate forms and other numbers) a pattern manifest in all nature ( micro and macro) - particular the 'node' of triplicity, as the 'ideal' underlying pattern that gives birth to 'the real' ( the 10,000 things ) in the 'four-fold world' . and then see the same observation , distilled in simplicity in Ch. 42 ( first part ) of TTC . The Tao begot one. One begot two. Two begot three. And three begot the ten thousand things. The ten thousand things carry yin and embrace yang. They achieve harmony by combining these forces. Since the search function here has not worked since 2014 , I will stick the article in the box below

Either that or the 'original cultural stuff ' and 'elements' are also accretions . Otherwise why would the original go to great pains to explain that it can not be explained . The original metaphors are metaphors of that culture and may not be accurately describing Dao accurately anyway . Perhaps a better way of comprehending Dao is by looking for its presence in the expression of various cultural systems to gain an eclectic understanding cross - culturally and out of that, distil from the cultural clothing what the actual essence is . As I don't believe Daoism is specifically cultural , it describes natural universal principles . And they are 'ever present everywhere ' .

So he was eliminated .... and all his posts removed..... but he can still 'like' things ? Curious . Now he is sorta like a forum ghost ..... Wait ! .... what was that noise ?