Nungali

Some people fear themselves ; their real self , their unconscious self , other 'aspects' of themself , ..... they don't want to even talk about it, what they think might constitute 'self' . " Too esoteric " (or uncomfortable ? ) . Best leave it all 'under the carpet ' . 'Hollow Men ' , I have met a few in my time . It doest mean they are not 'nice' or even talented , but they seem to have a fear of delving into the self and such subjects are literally taboo . I stayed with EGF at her brothers years back . They where out the back , band practice , the empty house (except for me and EGF ) had radio going in the kitchen and a bedroom, music from sound system in the lounge room AND the tv on ( with sound on ) in the same room . I went around and turned everything off . Later they emerged back into the house and brother : " Who turned everything off !? " and went around turning it all back on again . Later that night we suggested to brother and his GF that we turn everything off and have a conversation . WHOA ! What a freaky novel idea .... crazy hippies ! They didnt want to but finally agreed that we would do it in the lounge room with the tv on with no sound . My GF got a little 'cosmic' and they freaked out . So we talked mundane stuff and even that was surprising for them .. The next morning ( with everything back on again ) brother commented how "Last night was freaky ." - sadly he killed himself a few years later. . I could never talk to my boss about death , and we became good friends . But no way, I would get into trouble if I did or answered any other conversation about it , I was "weird " and "morbid" ! A couple of years later when his father died he started ringing me up and wanted to talk about all this stuff and he also talked about some unusual experiences he had when his beloved dog died .... I knew he was holding onto something back then . Anyway, I was certainly then allowed to talk about death . I dont think he fears death so much now .... he has experienced 'something else' about it

I am inclining to think of enlightenment as a state and not a destination . I am also inclined to think of the path to enlightenment as ...... the path to enlightenment . Also they are the same 4 sufferings I was considering . But we don't have to suffer along the path Let's look at the 4th one ; ' the end of suffering is contained in the eight-fold path '

Thats sounds interesting and fun . Here is one from my area .... an old historical account , supposedly demonstrating the idea that Aboriginals are lazy ; " I came upon this one lying on the grass by a stream . he had made the stream narrow by placing rocks and sticks in it and weaving a narrow chase which any fish travelling up the stream must pass through . next to this he had embedded a long flexible stick in the ground with its end bent over and had attached a noose and tied it down with a trip knot . A fish would enter the narrow gap, put its head through the noose and then feel it, try to back out and snare its gills and twit and flip. This would release the knot and the bent over stick would fly upwards, over his head, flipping the fish up onto the bank and releasing it . he would then bend the stick over and re set the knot and go back to lying down as the numbers of fish up on the bank increased . " Now thats 'lazy ' .... not at all like your industrious and busy western fisherman

and I thought about you standing out in the water with waist high waders on ..... " I hope he doesnt need to pee ." - such are the postulations of the enlightened

Ah, the endless ancient thought since man first tried fishing ; 'If only I had a raft of some sort and could get out there where the real big fish are !

Well, would not that depend on certain things . Like if you DID catch a fish or DIDN"T ..... when you where starving.

or, if you prefer ... Enlightenment is to GO BEYOND suffering ..... when one is ON THE PATH TO enlightenment , yes, one suffers . But suffering is not PART OF enlightenment . Thats the whole point of it . ..... Limi .

The intellectual and physical requirements where for the advanced to be admitted to the body that regulates things in the group. If one is going to contribute to making decisions to a level that actually effects peoples lives, it is considered that they need to be accomplished in all previous levels and have an understanding of the way of the world . . . in some fields . " 12. Persons who wish to be appointed to this College ... must volunteer for the office. The appointment is for Eleven Years. Volunteers must renounce for that period all further progress .... They must give evidence of first-rate ability in (i) Some branch of athletics. (ii) Some branch of learning. 13. They must also possess a profound general knowledge of history and of the art of government, with some attention to philosophy in general. " F or me my branch of learning is 'Cultural Anthropology' and my branch of 'athletics' was martial arts . I also study history but that started afterwards and mostly centres around pre-history ( Australia , Central Asia, Egypt, Mesoptamia and Indus Valley). And that is after a whole range of stages about understanding the self, its motivations and progressions .... a little different from the requirements of modern politicians . I remember a famous Aussie one ; Russ HInze ( the 'Minister for Racing ' ... seriously, we had a minister for horse and dog racing and betting ) when he arrived in a car out the front of Parliament House , so fat he couldnt get out, got stuck , someone started pulling his arm ... nope ! Another joined in on the other arm ...nope . A third went around the other side, got in the back seat with him , braced his back against the closed door and pushed him with both feet while the other two pulled his arms .... bloooop ! out he popped onto the footpath . Such is the stuff of mundane politics Regarding the term enlightenment , I dont it is by design , it just isnt used as at core, its a western system . I suppose traditionally and historically such western systems used a similar term 'Illumination' , but usage of it seems to have fallen out f fashion . As far as 'knowing and understanding your specific purpose for this incarnation and getting on with it ' yes, that IS by design . False meanings can't be attached to it as no one decides what that purpose is but you , there is no judgement on a purpose whether it be a 'ditch digger', a philosopher, a soldier, a mother , etc . To become one of these , if it is your 'True Will' then that would be 'attainment ' . The concept first appears in ancient Zoroastrianism as 'khvarana' and entered the western tradition via 'Chaldaen Oracles' http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/overview/index.htm#khvarenah Its formal recognition , within that , or aside from it , I find one with balance can 'recognise a dickhead ' regardless of their 'attested attainment .

Some people deliberately make them ... dont know why

Yes . YOU can read Shamnugan's two books, blog and watch his Youtubes , and get back to us with a review. Thanks for offering .

No I dont . I have been knitting and distributing these through UNESCO Giraffe scarf .

double 'like' .

Lets hope she wore glasses and never did that outside ................................... .

" flub - ups " ... never heard that one before ! Sounds like a fat guy on a trampoline .

Seek the gold - discard the dross .

I suppose you will have to watch his youtubes and buy his books . Unless this changes to a discussion forum instead of a personal advertisement rave .

I am going to classify this 'deluding yourself' as 'spiritual pride' and the remedy against that is a sense of humour, especially about the self and its sacred cows and the tradition itself . The 'deluded by others' remedy is developing a sharp and observant mind, becoming aware of your own propensities and weaknesses ( including what areas of 'flattery' you are susceptible to ) and learning about the different types of human psychologies, including your own and where your strengths and weaknesses lie ( eg . via astrology ) And following and being attentive to its teachings eg; * Yet, oh aspirant, let thy victories bring thee not Vanity, for with increase of Knowledge should come increase of Wisdom. He who knoweth little, thinketh he knoweth much; but he who knoweth much hath learned his own ignorance. Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? * Thou therefore who desirest Magical Gifts, be sure that thy soul is firm and steadfast; for it is by flattering thy weaknesses that the Weak Ones will gain power over thee. Humble thyself before thy Self, yet fear neither man not spirit. Fear is failure, and the forerunner of failure: and courage is the beginning of virtue * Worship and neglect not, the physical body which is thy temporary connection with the outer and material world. Therefore let thy mental Equilibrium be above disturbance by material events; strengthen and control the animal passions, discipline the emotions and the reason, nourish the Higher Aspirations * . Do good unto others for its own sake, not for reward, not for gratitude from them, not for sympathy. If thou art generous, thou wilt not long for thine ears to be tickled by expressions of gratitude * Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist. It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them. . The advantages to be gained from them are chiefly these: ("a") A widening of the horizon of the mind. ("b") An improvement of the control of the mind. ... and so on . Then you would be a Naep . 'New Age Enlightened Person' A few years back - woman friend that had a Naep ' courting her ' ( wow , thats old fashioned ! .... he 'wanted to have sex with her ) so telling her all sorts of BS . One day she angriy declares " I've got more enlightenment in my little finger than everyone arond here ." Pfffft ! It deals with that by having nothing to do with it . It doesnt have 'enlightenment ; in it . What is it anyway ? Ask the question here and see the variety and type of answers you get . Regarding whether one is full of it or not, the above techniques help . Also empty claims are not on - each level of achievement is done by examination and what is produced requiring physical, intellectual and philosophical achievement in certain fields . NOW we get to the juice . ... we dont have one . I suppose the closest thing would be knowing and understanding your specific purpose for this incarnation and getting on with it . 1. As above . 2. As I said above, its not a term we use . But I can substitute the question with , lets say ' the achievement of levels towards 'our aims ' and remove the word 'enlightenment ' ; " if I were to tell you that I had ' achieved ' according to the definition provided by your tradition (to be clear, I'm not actually claiming this), how would you know if I was full of shit or not? I could test you . We have 'tests' so we can recognise and identify each other . 3. Well, yes and no ...... yes to over the forum as its easy to discern who is a flamin' idiot but to sort out as in my 2. above , practical demo required .

Your PPD ? That selection of untitled posts with no subject matter and no content because you edited it all away ? No thanks .

Oh, I get you now . They do have a bad rep in the animal world - ie the other animals are not too keen on them . A friend was telling me she has a 'monster' in the gully at her place ; ' I heard a sound like I never heard before , an angry violent snarly sound coming from the gully , then all these little animals and birds came bolting out the undergrowth and took off in a panic ." The next morning I found a little potaroo with its head ripped off on my front lawn .... yep, that's a quoll. .

'Great Mother' made 'The Garden of Eden' for 'the People' . All you need is a log and some sticks and stones , the rest 'provided' ( by Mum ) . She never kicked no one out though ! ( Although some people did break in and fuck it right up .)

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There was a mixup with her name ..... her middle name became her surname in one record . Its another strange 'why '. If its a cover up then why x y z ? if it wasnt then why a b c ... none of it makes much sense circles within circles within circles https://www.thoughtco.com/dantes-9-circles-of-hell-741539

Sagebrush; " .... .Nowhere in any post inside this vaccine thread did I state that I trust experts. So officially you are incorrect. ...... " - or maybe you could learn how to use quote function and respond better ? https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/academic_writing/paragraphs_and_paragraphing/index.html .