Nungali

My answer to all of this has previously been outlined . You are back flogging a dead horse . I wont bother responding as I can see your 7 day holiday did you no good and you are straight back here doing exactly what got you the 'holiday' in the first place . Which I suspect may shortly be permanent .

Hey ! ... I am showing some of the latest info that moves towards supporting his views , but even that isnt good enough, it seems . probably won't be good enough either ... until I show proof of flying vimana ( which, by the way .... isn't even traditional ! )

What I posted, and the information in the links I gave are based on current research not the theories of 18th and 19th century 'European natives ' . And they indicate movement towards some of the things some Indians have been claiming , yet you dismissed them for some obscure reason about not going along with traditional knowledge . Really ? I dont think so . Some people are considering them valid and some are not in these ' western Indology circles ' . I have read many a debate where one is arguing for AIT and another discounting it BOTH from ' western Indology circles ' . Ahhhh , no . Scientists are not supposed to be trying to reconcile their data with religious narratives . Although some attempt it ... we got them in the west too You dont seem to have any trouble 'dismissing ' stuff . Like the stuff I pointed out above re ; I made certain claims . You disputed them and cited references . I pointed out how the references you supplied actually supported what I was saying . So you sorta ignored that and now have moved on to this .... a more 'general' claim , so to speak . Thats interesting but what is the context ? How does it relate to what we are talking about here ? It says the art was made about 10,000 ya by a people who where hunter gatherers and did not know agriculture . The links I offered above, that you glossed over showed a much earlier establishment of such people in India and also discussed their range of technology and artistic expressions . It certainly does not indicate any early Indian civilisation regardless of the articles title ... unless we call Hunter Gatherers a 'civilisation' . '

Well, I might have to retract those studies that show the earliest development of Modern HSS in India as I dont want to offend the 'traditional narrative' ..... that there was an earlier development of modern HSS in India .

Okay. I will put it on my list Here is one for you about early south Asian ('sub continent ') origins Look ! India No. 1 ! https://theconversation.com/southeast-asia-was-crowded-with-archaic-human-groups-long-before-we-turned-up-119818 Of course these are slow developments of hominid 'technology' towards 'modern' , but the question of 'Modern Homo sapiens ' behaviour ' is a tricky one . Still, it does not un favour 'India' ; When did Homo sapiens first reach Southeast Asia and Sahul? https://www.pnas.org/content/115/34/8482

However , this part of the 2nd links content is interesting ; " These slim, dark-skinned, small-faced and large-forheaded travelers were equipped with a brilliant capacity to adapt and survive. With an unmatched imagination and intelligence, they were able to make Spears, Spear-throwers, Nets, Slings, Clothing and were capable of Cooking food, traits which erectus lacked. In the end, erectus was unable to survive, and died out, replaced by the more adaptable and intelligent Homo sapiens. In the Indian subcontinent, our kind made their presence known. Just as their cousins in Europe and Australia were doing, they made cave paintings " It did leave out 'sea fearing ' though . I find it interesting in that some have postulated a 'centre of divergence ' for these 'technologies' in South-east Asia . More about that , from a scientific perspective ; http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/books/eden_in_the_east.php " The biblical flood really did occur - at the end of the last Ice Age. The Flood drowned for ever the huge continetal shelf of Southeast Asia, and caused a population dispersal which fertilized the Neolithic cultures of China, India, Mesopotamia, Egypt and the eastern Mediterranean, thus creating the first civilizations. The Polynesians did not come from China but from the islands of Southeast Asia. The domestication of rice was not in China but in the Malay Peninsula, 9,000 years ago. In this ground breaking new book Stephen Oppenheimer reveals how evidence from oceanography, archaeology, linguistics, genetics and folklore overwhelmingly suggests that the lost 'Eden' - the cradle of civilization - was not in the Middle East, as is usually supposed, but in the drowned continent of Southeast Asia. .... " Indeed , the first Indians and the first Australians may well have been 'cousins ' .... cousy bro https://www.pbase.com/image/75419522

Thats about climate warming after the ice age before the last one - its about an interglacial warming period . " the Indian summer monsoon pulled heat and moisture into the northern hemisphere when Earth was entering a warmer climate around 130,000 years ago " and " Our study used these deep sea sediments from the northern Bay of Bengal to capture a direct signal of the Indian summer monsoon from 140,000 to 128,000 years ago .... This occurred when the Earth was coming out of a glacial state and into the interglacial which occurred before the one we live in, separated by a single ice age. " The last ice age stated around 115, 000 ya - 15, 000 years later . Even you agreed with my dates and that I was talking about the last ice age ; Even so it does not address my point about the ocean level dropping . This reference you give to show how India was not effected by the last ice age is rather bizarre , because ; " Oh yes. Evidence suggests that the ice age heavily affected the climate of prehistoric India. During the warmer Interglacial periods, the ice would have thawed, and the subcontinent would have experienced more intense Monsoons, with sub-humid climates in otherwise arid areas, whereas the inverse would have taken place during the colder Glacial periods, giving less intense monsoons and lower amounts of precipitation. This would have had a definite impact on the fauna of India. " - Like I said ; lower ocean levels and a dryer climate . That would be nice , but I dont need more references to support what I said ..... its basic high school science . .

Indeed - your last paragraph . However its not unknown for a man to have his wife as spiritual guide ; especially in the western tradition ; Mathers (Moina Mathers ) , Crowley ( Laylah ... actually Crowley said his highest initiations would not have been possible without his female partners ) , Max Theon ( Alma Theon ), etc . Never heard of a man, getting spiritual tutelage from another man while he inhabited his own wife's body though 'as her soul ' .

Really ? From 115, 000 to 11, 500 years ago , the whole planet was in an ice age ..... Except for the whole Indian subcontinent ? What an amazing place ! They manage to stop the ocean dropping and kept the ice and glaciers back up there in their modern positions - where they belong ! No droughts, no drop in temperature . Didnt even need a wool jumper or socks !

It looks interesting , I am interested in what the ancients knew of the world and old atlases . I got to the bit where I was asked to accept the 14 ,000 year old date . That's still in the Ice Age .

... and out of curiosity I wondered if they too have a beer named after him , so I just looked it up ; https://untappd.com/b/ono-brewing-company-el-tio-lager/2873779

In many mines in Sth America , it is considered dangerous to go to work underground without making offerings to 'El Tio ' :

Changed your mind, eh ?

It is rare , considering the number of people swarming over the planet today . But not too rare when we look at case studies . Jung seems to have thought Philamon more than intuition or inner voice , same as Blavatsky and 'King John' . Again, quoting from that article ; " For most individuals the hallucinations came on suddenly. One woman was working in a garden when an unseen man addressed her. ..... All patients describe voices as having the quality of a real voice, sometimes louder, sometimes softer, than normal voices. The experience they describe is quite unlike thoughts or fantasies. When things are seen they appear fully real. For instance a patient described being awakened one night by Air Force officers calling him to the service of his country. He got up and was dressing when he noticed their insignia wasn't quite right; then their faces altered. With this he knew they were of The Other Order and struck one hard in the fce.He hit the wall and injured his hand. He could not distinguish them from reality until he noticed the insignia. Most patients soon realize that they are having experiences that others do not share,and for this reason learn to keep quiet about them. " Regarding your quotes ; The ancients , in some cases, seem to have lumped all the levels of different 'orders' together , hence the apparent discrepancies in descriptions. It was not until the Hellenistic Greeks that the idea of 'good and bad ' ones was considered . See ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(classical_mythology)#Categories Of course, its all a lot more complex than what we can discuss here (in a topic about secrecy ) - I have extensive posts on DBs elsewhere about the issue and related subjects.

I had practice and direct experience of this and the conclusion I came to was it is dependent on memory . One might be fully conscious of something and doing it , but later forget it . So then there is no memory of 'being conscious' . My experience was doing a meditation that required breaking the sleep cycle . Since I could not remember doing it in the morning, and not sure I did do it, I started leaving myself a note at night saying I had done the meditation. Some mornings, I would have sworn I slept all night , yet there was the note in the morning . ' Stream of Consciousness' relies on memory to string it all together like a film , otherwise consciousness is like looking at 'stills' - series of photographs and forgetting the previous ones, each time a new one is seen . Hmmm , I never had that . I have had this unusual experience often ; I am lying there thinking I am asleep* and I hear a noise , its not that I am woken up by the noise , or other stimulus but I am surprised that I am 'awake enough ' to be aware ( but this probably is not when I am in a state of deep sleep ) . * what the hell does ' thinking I am asleep ' mean ?

This revelation changes everything ; as well as making us realised we wasted our time offering any advise too a deceptively outlined scenario, it actually explains the reason for this 'secrecy of origins' . That is , ' it ' ( the 'liberated soul' / 'family member ' ) CAN NOT give an origin, place or country of birth and any questions about that will be diverted , excused , manipulated and go unanswered because they can not be answered . I dont know how many times I have explained this on daobums - its usually to someone playing with stuff they dont understand , or just somehow become placed in the situation . It usually happens to those with no experience , background or proper study of the subject but with a smattering of New Age 'fiddlin' . Magick 101 ; When invoking or encountering a spirit - test it . The very basic first test is to get a name . if it claims human identity, or any type of 'past' , question it on that identity and past . A 'lower order' spirit will not be able to answer these questions . It might have some good advise in some areas and seek to gain favour with you . But it is not what it it is trying to make out it is or what it is tying to get you to believe . Oh sure , the response will be 'its not like that ! ' - dont know how many times I have heard this . Its also been observed in clinical situations ; "They never have a personal identity though they accept most names or identities given them. They either conceal or have no awareness of personal memories. Though they claim to be separate identities they will reveal no detail that might help to trace them as separate individuals . " p 6 . https://selfdefinition.org/hearing-voices/Wilson-Van-Dusen-The-Presence-of-Spirits-in-Madness.pdf 'lesser order' goes from real nasty buggers up to , well , ourselves . It seems this one is fairly mediocre and perhaps relatively harmless . Maybe ? But deceptive ... like our poster here . I won't write more on this here , because , now , trust issue - I might come back tomorrow and find a new edit .... " No it isnt ... he is actually my Uncle Joe from Albuquerque . "

Errrmmm .... thanks , I think . I suppose its a classification within that philosophy ? I It doesnt seem to fit with my ( 'number' ) theory , which, as far as I can tell, seems to contain all systems and that manifests in a particular way . It also goes along with the 'number theory' of manifestation in TTC . But I am not familiar with this above system or the terms , I;d heave to look them up and try to get a concept . But maybe its just a list of states and what comes 1st or 4th is immaterial ? 'My' system ( or the 'natural' system ) would suppose a primal overall consciousness ( and a state of zero or 0 consciousness as a 'prelude' to that ) , so that would be 1. Then that would have 2 polarities ; 2. and 3. Perhaps the conscious and unconscious . They would then form an 'interactive' triplicity' that gives manifestation to a 4th stage , where these 'ideal' energies or concepts 'solidify' ( specific thoughts - 'the ten thousand things' ) and drive actions on the physical plane .

What a strange world it is ..... away from here . Here are some Aussie police ..... 'policing' Sydney's gay Mardi Gras .

I too wanted to hear about this particular '4 stages of consciousness ' - to see if it fits in with my 3 : 4 theory . But this answer above is pretty confusing ? Dwai asked if you could enlighten US , yet you changed that to ' we ' .... " by 'we' " ... what we ? Then a quantum leap to 'summoning' Jeff .... or, at east , if it isnt a quantum leap, there is some connection inside your thinking . Now ... you have not been 'visualising' Dwai , have you ?

I thought it was ; 'wearing a manbun in a public place ' .

I thought that was going to be the other way around ;

No ... really !

Stair cases . That seems to be the origin of some of the techniques in Chinto Kata . Chinto was a 'pirate' , a Chinese seaman washed up in North Okinawa, that turned into a 'bandit'. Matsamura went to capture him, but could not best him in their fight . Chinto took a higher position up the back of a sea cave . The Chinto kata has many unusual kicks from the 'hook stance' - a one legged stance with the kicking foot held behind the other , to kick out and then return to that position . During a fight on stairs , or from a similar situation ( a higher 'decking' ) it tends t be a battle over the higher ones lead leg ; the higher person is trying to kick the lower (as there isnt much more he can do ) the lower is trying to size the others leg . Chinto may have developed the technique fighting on boats - up and down stairs, landings and different levels on deck ?

Man ! ... is that little bird that lives next door going to be pissed off !

Going north to get some grass trees. Last time I was there I saw some advertised by the roadside , very cheap. But I was in the wrong type of car - no room. I suppose they are small ones . but many years later ; Going to visit my XGF and we are off for a 2 day trip. north Just as I return I am going south for a bit of a martial arts get together - our head guy passed on a few months back so some seniors are getting together again ( I missed the first one , it was 'admin' , organisation, restructuring and other immensely boring stuff I happily avoided ), this time for 'practice' . It appears only two of us ( I am one ) that has retained the fuller extent of our weapons system , so I hope to be doing a session on that . Then, just as I return from that , my Thailer ( Thai tiler ) turns up FINALLY ( I have been waiting MONTHS! ) to start work inside my now finished garden bath house . In between that I plan to float down the river a lot and go out to the coast and do some salt water fishing . I got dinner there yesterday - what an adventure ! Hooked up a decent fish , but he came back in, went under the wharf and through the netting into the swimming pool - snagged . So I had to get down in there dive to the bottom and untangle it, under water . Took me 3 goes , the things a fisherman will do to secure his catch !