Nungali

I wanted to note this before regarding emotions and magical practice. " Inflame thyself with prayer " - a popular magical axiom . Its more the power of inflaming than the power of prayer . I remember reading Lom Milo Duquette and his book on evocation. He tried a few times, not much result. But then later, when he was in a real panic about his situation and family and tried it in desparation, it worked and his whole life turned around (according to him ) I cited Liber Astarte before regarding 'deity' , this oart might be worth noting regarding emotions ; "Concerning the Enflaming of the Heart. Now learn that thy methods are dry, one and all. Intellectual exercises, moral exercises, they are not Love. Yet as a man, rubbing two dry sticks together for long, suddenly found a spark, so also from time to time will true love leap unasked into thy mediation. Yet this shall die and be reborn again and again. It may be that thou hast no tinder near. In the end shall come suddenly a great flame and a devouring, and burn thee utterly. Now of these sparks, and of these splutterings of flame, and of these beginnings of the Infinite Fire, thou shalt thus be aware. For the sparks thy heart shall leap up, and thy ceremony or meditation or toil shall seem of a sudden to go of its own will; and for the little flames this shall be increased in volume and intensity; and for the beginnings of the Infinite Fire thy ceremony shall be caught up unto ravishing song, and thy meditation shall be ecstasy, and thy toil shall be a delight exceeding all pleasure thou hast ever known. " YET The most spirited, strongest and swiftest horse may get you to your destination surpassing all difficulties which may stop others , but it also might be the most difficult to control.

yes please . (we where just whiling away the time awaiting your return . You know what thats like .

Not another one ! Well, I suppose you still have 2 weeks of octoberfest(ering) to go .

What's happened to Apech ? he drank a bottle of red , went to crash out and now ....... gone for 2 days !

Indeed ! (I was being sarcastic .)

Oh no ! Borat does USA 2 .... during Coronavirus !

At the local disco . Carved with cheese ? ? ? Isnt that a little soft to do carving with ? I mean , some hippies here had a problem with me suggesting ancient limestone was carved with diorite pounders .... but cheese ?

Little magical slippers that have the flames of hell licking up the sides from the soul sole on a black background that fade to blue then clouds, then dark blue /blackindigo with stars that are little diamonds sewn in, towards the top . And pairs of miniature lapis lazuli carved dove wings above the heel . PS. Don/ t forget the diadem

Dont take a drive across inland Australia then ! Its one of the things that bugs me even around here . Many of the paddocks dont have enough trees . In summer I drive past cattle huddled up together in the heat trying to find shade shelter under a lone tree . I even nearly had a physical fight over it ! (only didnt happen as Mr 6'3" 'bully boy' backed down ) . My stupid neighbour had a goat that he was abusing (of course he said he wasn't and other morons said that was 'harsh language ' ) but I had already saved goats life once and what a scene that was , it was really difficult, but I did it , later we collapsed in exhaustion together - so that bonded us closely . Anyway, the dickhead kept tying goat up in bad places and going out all day, so I visit goat make sure there was water, give him a pat and scratch and move him to a shady tree. 'Owner' would tie him to a dead tree in the sun wtf ? ! So we (me and other good neighbour ) decided to chop down the dead tree for firewood, knobface comes drives past in his huge 4wd, stops, comes over and starts screaming " Dont chop down that tree thats my goat tying up tree ! " Me; " But there are trees all around this field and a few in the middle where he can be tied instead, that way he can go in and out of the shade as he needs to, also the grass is better there and he can eat the low leaves on the tree , out here its dry and hardly any grass ." etc . But he stars yelling and acting crazy so I advanced on him and told him to fuck off, which he started to . Nice neighbour was freaked out by him so we decided to through the towel for the day, so I left. Then I hear dickhead yelling again, he waited till I left and went for the calm guy, so I came back and told him if he wants to start trouble , here I am . he left again . next day, goat is tied to dead tree and in the sun what the hell ! So I moved the goat, got other neighbour, chopped down the tree, got the firewood, pulled the rest up around the stump and set fire to it. The he comes home from work, driving by and sees our bonfire . Even the nicest seeming people I have witnessed treating animals like some distributor of goods or product and not a fellow living being . just a milk distributor to be 'used' for our advantage .... I really dont get it ! - sorry for the rant , its sore spot that your picture triggered . Here is one of the better fields ; green grass , plenty of shade , forage as well as grazing , a swimming hole . The 'Murray Grey' stud I used to live near even had 'sawdust pits ' for them to roll in .

Good . Maybe tomorrow when the wine wears off ? In the meantime , do you think the (or your ) concept of neteru solves the concept referred to ?

Short answer ...... maybe . But you know me , I'm a windbag , so longer answer ..... For me the are sort of integrated at all points of time and at the same time as we see them as 'templates' . Its like stages of initiation of the map of The Tree of Life ; its all set out lineal , but often some things are happening at the same time , and arts of one thing might be accomplished before other parts . We might have a proclivity in an advanced area or a block in a basic stage . I would not advocate 'hanging on to ' ( if that means in a permanent , exclusive attachment ) but 'working with' / adoration / aspiration / etc with specific deities is a very important and central part of magic (and religion ) in the western tradition. Although its technique is said to be the most dangerous for the magician . Why is that so ? Because the ritual requires one acts like and believes in the one deity while maintaining one's 'magicians centre' - a tricky balance ; not enough one way and its an empty ritual, too much and you risk 'falling into religion' . It cam be used to correct actions or to develop skills, realisations , states , 'trances' (modes of consciousness ) I can attest that it is one of the more powerful forms of magical ( or psychological ) technology that leads to physical results. 0. This is the Book of Uniting Himself to a particular Deity by devotion https://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib175.htm

Essentially that is my central spiritual practice - a type of worship . A fuller realisation of it ( meaning I was able to put it into an everyday meaningful practice ) came after , of all things , my 2nd degree Wicca initiation . Its also the main reason for incarnation (collectively , not individually, where it IS this but also one's individual expression and 'calling ' ) in being ; 'the eyes and ears ( and emotions and feelings ) of the Gods . Its a type of 'offering everything up to God ' . " Would you like to go to the beach today, maybe we will see whales and dolphins again? We can look out over the vast expanse of the Pacific Ocean and dive in and feel the cool water on our body and be in the surging waves . Then we can lie on the warm sand and feel the vast but distant Sun shining down upon us . Later I will make a nice dinner and we can lie out in the garden and look up to the myriad stars and ponder my place in the Universe " ... no , that ain't my GF I am talking to . - some people have asked me ' Dont you get lonely living by yourself ? ' Nope !

It must be time for this again !

a bottle of red wine eh ?

For me its all solved by the concept of 'neter / neteru ' , but that's just my take on neteru . What is your take on 'neter / neteru ' ?

I was going to be picky too and comment on D's example of some of the pain in life ; the fizzy bubbles in coca cola that sting your tongue ..... But that might seem uncharitable Apech ; " I like the pain/pleasure thing - that's very non-dual "

Sorry .... 2nd hit in the index page of a search ' Atman is not the soul ? ' " Dec 12, 2017 — (Jeeva) Atman is referred to in English as the Spirit. This is the one that takes birth again and again, not the soul; and ...: and 7th ; " It is vaguely similar to the Western concept of the soul, as each person “possesses” or partakes of the atman, but it differs from a soul in that the atman is not ... Your problem might be that you are comparing Hindu concept of ' Atman ' with the western concept of the 'soul' .... Westerners themselves cant even agree on what soul actually is . Of course , no such arguments exist in Hinduism .

Namaste

Its a wonderful practice ! In me it has been fuelled by near death experiences ( sudden or 'drawn out ' ) , that makes one , not only appreciate every day and every breath, but creates a type of 'ecstatic appreciative awareness ' . I am glad you found it and released yourself from that crazy mindset of guilt and depression and life denial that , for some INSANE reason , some 'spiritual' people ascribe to . ..... poor bastards ! What a strange religion , so I got rid of mine and adopted a new one ; - snippets ; Come forth, o children, under the stars, & take your fill of love! I am above you and in you. My ecstasy is in yours. My joy is to see your joy. - now, there is a deity ! ... some people actually ' fear God ' ..... wow ! You would have to have some real guilt trip instilled for that one ! (They also suggest we should fear their God too When bad shit happens ? Well, its never REAL bad , although some seem to think it was ( but most of them are 'Princesses' wrapped in cotton wool ) . if I start to doubt , I remember how bad it can be and actually is for some people . Working in a hospital, refugee relocation and with Amnesty International opened my eyes to that ! PS . 'Maybe ' can be an excellent answer to a LOT of questions .

now I am wondering what you wrote BEFORE you edited that Here is one that totally cracked me up ..... and caused extreme embarrassment for the perpetrator Its a little ' risqué '

First it depends on one's definition of ego and 'egoic identity' . Next, Is the ego in the unconscious ? I am not sure it can penetrate into that realm. The unconscious can penetrate the conscious realm via its media of communication ; symbol and imagery , but I dont know of any reverse process. A complex is 'in the personal unconscious' . It is the 'core pattern' of those things that lie in the unconscious . This is different from the 'flowering' of those core patterns in the consciousness. and that upwelling / influence that might result in action or even compulsion is also 'unconscious' and need not rely on any image or symbol .... its masked from us until it arrives from .... somewhere / out of the blue .... into consciousness or even physical action without conscious motivation . This is where it gets tricky, both realms interact, thats why I prefer the Exo-psychology model and my 'astro - psychoanalytical' model , one can see these process then in diagram . In any case, it can seem, in some forms of voodoo that some loa are the surfacing of an unconscious complex into an expression in the conscious world , via possession. It would seem the personal ego is absent in full possession. There is no point talking to ' the person' in full possession, they are not there (unless they are 'faking it ' ) , you have to talk to the loa . This is one of the reasons Dr Van Dusen got success with formerly 'incurable cases' of 'madness' ( people who claimed to be and acted like they where possessed ) and 'hallucination' ; he came up with the innovative approach of not interviewing the patient but their ' possessing hallucination' . In a way , I suppose one could say loa are like ego , in that ; a psychoanalytical definition of ego describes ; " the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity. " (in full possession that 'sense of personal identity ' gone ) while a loa ( which, to be accurate, is not a deity) is an intermediary between ' The Bondye' ( 'God' ) and the people . One could say that in voodoo worship, our unconscious complexes are given conscious expressions / acknowledgement . - A sort of 'mental health' pressure release valve . A psychological Saturnalia ( and like Saturnalia , can get somewhat 'out of control' , for a time .... which may well be an important part of the process ) .

I would say no . One might call them deified concepts or even deified complexes . ( A complex is a core pattern of emotions, memories, perceptions, and wishes in the personal unconscious organized around a common theme )

... and did you get a ' toe job ' ?

One of the things i liked about my short experience with Voudon is the range they have in their 'loa' some seem archetypal , some seem representational of a mind set, others the old Gods of Africa, some are transformed Christian saints, one a lady that helped the slaves last century ( she still wears her hat, gloves , pearls and carries a handbag, as she used to in her life . Some are primal ; The Great Forest , Simbi la Flambeau ( fire serpent ) , 'Death' , etc . As Michael expressed ; "All these: thought, emotion, body, action - each on their respective level - lend expression to forces that we can indeed think of as the deities ' This really comes out in the ritual, a loa possession is expressed in such thought, emotion, body, action that pertains to the loa in ritual. It can be a VERY emotive dynamic .