Nungali

Indeed, and as cited earlier occultism is a very general term for a lot of things . An occultist can be a person like Colin Wilson ( author ) , Crowley, LeVay, Hitler or average dude that is interested in and reads up on the subject.

Not sure what you mean by ' vertical ascendance.' , but sone of the earliest Shamanic cave art literally depicts it - the shaman lying on the ground, a line going up from him with the Shaman 'flying' above him connected to the line . Or the same , with other figures climbing up the line .

Ha! I had not scrolled down when I answered the OP . Yep, twins . Another time, during after nap we heard lots of laughing ( and these guys where a lot younger then the above ones, no where near standing yet ) so spied through the window into their room. The Sun was shining through the room and one was holding his hands up into and making 'shadow puppets' on the wall next to the other one's head who was looking at them and laughing .

The twins would talk to each other before they learnt to speak any English or stand .... they had their own language . I thought it was just baby gurgles and such but listening carefully there was to and fro, question and response and even , mostly from one 'humour ; with a response of laughter. But a 'lone baby' might not develop that. The baby in that pic above ? ; I look like that if you try to tale MY picture ... " NO PICTURES! "

Sweet ! Now I will say this " Peace be upon you, of the mathematically infinite grace, and many innumerable blessings. " As I do this

No it isnt . and if you think it is you are NOT being rational at all . The best anyone can do is simply feel it for yourselves ... and NOT waste time making silly magic videos with alleged testing done in it .

Glad you finally concede my point that its all stage magic . And that no props should be needed except the hand of the person ... no paper , no alfoil and no strained facial expressions or shaking hands .

'Rule out fraud on video '

Pffft ... science and medical doctors present ! What would they know about such things ? No , you need these guys present ;

The whole thing is a pile of crap anyway . Why would a 'master' need to use paper soaked in water (and ? ..... but ... but , it was from a tea pot ... it MUST have been pure water ! ) and aluminium foil to generate heat into someone's back .... when he could have just used his hands ? people used to tell me that when Mr Nishihira would demonstrate a technique ('show you how it feels') on you, that had struck a weak point or nerve complex , he would then rub his palms together and hold one over the area, it would get hot and then the pain would go away . I have also felt it from a very competent masseur ( actually, it was a friend GF, on being introduced she touched my shoulder , and immediately commented I must have had an injury there ... it was like her hand was magnetically attracted to it . She laid me down there and then and did a treatment on it ... VERY hot hands . I have felt this more than once . I am sure others have . The rest is all stage magic ... set ups, big crowds and usually money involved somehow . Cant people tell by what these tricksters are doing ? Is it all so unobvious to so many ? I suppose its becasue some people WANT to believe .... that is an incredibly powerful tool for the entrance of ignorance .

... and THAT comment / observation ^ coming from a John Chang / Mopie supporter ! Our guy does it .... 'proof of magic ! ' Another guy does it .... ' we know how he faked it ! ' Seriously .... aren't you even embarrassed by this ?

To match your evasive non-answer One , of course .

Yep . I made one of ' those things ' so hot yesterday ..... I was able to smoke it

I see defections all through it . Another trick is this ; Three or four questions asked .... response ? One question answered after quoting the four . This type of communication has taken over (not just here either , its infiltrating just about everywhere in modern western society ) so much that most dont seem to notice it ... or perhaps they dont care ? - Some people have not liked the way I break up a post and answer or respond to each part . Others will answer a post that has multiple questions in it with a comment . Same with emails ... and texts . Its getting damn hard to do business . Some people find my proclivity in this annoying ( and that is for a particular reason ) .... but I smashed it in court ! (Because a judge is well aware of these type of communicative trucks and tactics. )

Maybe because it is not really a FAQ but a masquerade to be able to say the usual stuff and make defences without anyone being able to dispute it .

Not a bad idea ... at least it would be better than being told what sort of a day you will have 7 times before lunch ! ..... And on the 7th one , cashier at Supermarket " You have a good day now Sir ! " Me;

Do you mean the fruit archaic H.Sapiens ate 200,000 ya and since , and in all the different places they travelled and lived ? How do we know how sweet that was ? ( I guess its possible, humans may have dispersed the seed of the sweetest fruits they where attracted to more than the others , contributing to a 'natural selection / evolution / adaption { 'ethnobotany' ? } )

I was recently eating some fruit Australian Aboriginals been eating for YONKS ... way back into 'ancient times' , some was delightfully sweet , especially 'emu berries' .... they even got 'honey pot ants' ... or, if you prefer sweet lime flavour ; ... or even some 'ice cream' " Contrary to popular belief, wild fruit—including the stuff we would’ve had access to during our evolution—is not necessarily any of the above. In fact, it can be bigger, tastier, and sweeter than anything you’ll ever find in the aisles of your grocery store." https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/

.... ' join you at the steak ' ....

The rival Shaman from 7 :15

... some people can live happy and fulfilling lives living on sea and ice and off blubber, seals and fish .

^ Interesting info ^ Natural milk eggs and meat are good for you . Oh wait ..... 'new research' has shown they are not .... cholesterol - nasty . Oh wait .... 'newer research' has shown they are good for you . ( When I was living up on the plateau, the soil is very good there ; grows excellent potatoes and other veg, good for grazing, also there is a trout farm nearby in a pristine river . The local butcher only sold meat from the surrounding farms , no imports . I used to like making meals from all local ingredients ; Smoked trout, potato salad, and garden veg salad. Steak and potatoes and veg. I think the local soil and environment are important ( Archaeologists can tell where some people lived and roamed because their food had a specific mineral signature relating to the land it grew on and that is lodged in their bones ) Another recent innovation is the ' mobile abattoir ' .... Instead of stressful and expensive trucking to huge regional abattoirs ( since a heap of smaller regional ones have shut and that has driven a lot of small farms out of business , or given over to 'big biz' ) and then being distributed all over the place , a couple of modified trucks come on to your farm - cows in one end , meat out the other and to the local butcher . I lived on a farm , I dont want to do the big biz, I have slaughtered and butchered a cow manually - I dont want to do that either , this new method seems the better option - you can control food quality and content from the ' soil up' . Dorrigo Plateau soil ;

Forum is taking a dive from what it used to be . I've had enough. I'm gonna start doing a real for life, right here in ya face running ritual invocation ... in this very thread ! In a series of posts . SO LOOK OUT ! And be warned - stop reading now if you cant handle it ..... RUN AWAY ! Now ..... < starts rummaging through ritual supply box > .... " Oh ! So THATS where that went ! ...... a melted candle ? WTF is that doing in here .... a lock of Margi's hair ..... Oh yeah ! my jewellery collection of left over earings and bangles found in my bed .... a matchbox with 3 MDMA ! ..... a g-string .... ! ? ... Hang on .... I'll be back .... this could take some time .

I like a lot of this post, but some I dont agree with ; That's a valid point . We talked about this before , about how (just in Europe, for example ) there where HUGE settlements of people living in egalitarian, unfortified, matriarchal type cultures that seem to have been replaced by invasive 'Indo-Europeans ' with patriarchal, warlord ruled, fortified cultures , involved heavily in animal husbandry ( my theory is that this gave the impetus towards slavery; some 'bright spark thought , ' Hmmmm.... If I can get an animal to do that, then maybe .... " ) ... and citied the archaeologist Marija Gimbutas. for those that are unfamiliar; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Europe_(archaeology ... and gave the impetus towards 'raid and run ' ( eg on horseback) cultures - see below . So in these older cultures we see war and conflict, but it is a totally different concept . War here (in my area, traditionally ) was two parallel lines of men face off, they throw spears at each other . Eventually one side gives up . Or , maybe some individuals will choose to enter into 1 on 1 combat with shields and clubs when all spears have been thrown . And thats it . The winning side doesnt go on and kill all the other men remaining , attack and kill their women and children , burn down their shelters and kill their dingoes and pelicans ( their domestic pets ) , go out and slaughter all their kangaroos in their 'fields and runs ' , burn their land and crops ( yes crops) and then salt the earth. ... and then run away (or gallop away or sail away ) because they could not run away . They would have killed people, places animals and crops that they where somehow reliant on or connected to - not so once people learnt to ride horses and sail ships . That would be unthinkable and considered insane. And besides ( and I will get to this utmost important point below ) it would be against the Law . And even just legal war seems to have been wrong .... I mean, why start a war in the first place ? ! [ - A diversion There is a great local story here (now published, so its in the public domain) , a Gumbaynggirr ( the area that I live in ) story about war with the Bundjalung ( the area my teacher comes from) . As far as I can make out ; Gumbaynggirr 'have' the Moon Man and he says get everyone together for a war with the Bundjalung and messages are sent out to G's and B's , so G's come from all over G area and B's start to gather on the border and they meet somewhere in G area . They line up opposite and start throwing spears at each other and defending with shields and dancing ( avoiding the others spears / making a hard target . Then Moon Man does a 'magic throw' but his spear turns and twists in flight 'like a boomerang' and weaves in and out all the B's missing them and comes around in big curve and hits Moon Man in his own arse . ( Well, what's the lesson there ! I wonder ) . That ends the war, but now Moon Man has a spear in the butt and its given him 'the runs' and he can't walk - 'Hey brother I can't walk, carry me back on your shoulders.' ... ' No, you got speared in the (literally 'tail bone' ) and I will get shit all down my back if I carry you . ' ... Anyway story goes on , he asks more men, same response , eventually some do help him ... but they get shit down their backs . ... again, what's the lesson here ? Certainly not glorifying war . ] I have difficulty relating that last sentence to Voodoo , especially the type I have had experience with and practice in. But then again, there are many different types . (to be continued when time allows ) The bit I blued is the bit I have a problem with , For me it isnt valid and does not hold up, so I cant accept the theory . Here, a Shaman does have some roles as described in the blue bit ; people can come to him , or a group can come to him and ask for something or how something should be done , he will consult with 'the other world' and give an answer , so in that case the blued bit is valid . Yet in cases of LAW it is NOT directed by the will of an individual or a whole tribe . The Gods made and hold the Law and instruct what it is. With Law, there is no ' negotiation between the tribe and the spirit world, on behalf of the tribe, as directed by the collective will of the tribe'. The only thing like negotiation is already in built to Law . Eg. ( to make it simple ) You must not touch this food stored here , you go in there and hunt, you will get hunted and speared ! .... unless , due to very special circumstances, conditions, certain exceptions may be allowed - see your local Shaman . So part of their work, here anyway, is like the red bit above ; transfer instructions from the deities to the city-state, people, group, tribe, etc. on behalf of the deities, as directed by the will of those deities .. ... or severe punishments are enacted . .... sometimes instantly and on the spot . And they also have VERY codified and elaborate rituals . But NO sacrificial culture . As I said this before , this is in my experience, here , and there are different types of Shamanism . But here we have an example of how things where done a LOOONG time ago .... WAY before the neolithic and the beginning of farming and animal husbandry in Europe or Egypt ( eg bread making here was 1000s of years before that done in Egypt , yet Egypt is still touted as 'the worlds first bakers' . ) Some may note some of what I wrote about above does not apply to South America ; no horses , ships or means of fast far escape , yet slavery and sacrificial culture evolved . Maybe, like me being more familiar with Australian Shamanism, the author of the piece you cited was more familiar with American Shamanism and based his general shaman theory on that ?