Nungali

! Andy Dale looks exactly like 'RV' a guy in my club - Israeli , ex Krav Magra ... even the glasses haircut and facial expression . ... I was attacking him with a spear , only this morning . At training that is - to show him some of the uses of the techniques in our kama and sai forms .

Hi M. What tradition/style of Shorin - ryu did you practice ? I have been doing it for years now - 'Matsamura Seito Shorin-ryu - mine came down through Hohan Soken > Kosei Nishihira . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosei_Nishihira

And if that did happen. you are supposing Sean would not act on such response ? -even after he has just offered to 'bend over backwards' for you ? It seems your plan is to try and get an overall ban on a subject here .... a very specific subject .... that became problematic due to the way your past members 'played tactics' here .

The only real difference there ^ , then , is that hermetic sciences evolved from Egypt and the 'Alexandrian Synthesis' . A lot of 'occult stuff' has varied origins including indigenous and folk traditions . Indeed .... I have heard some stories here (in Oz) about 'bad Kadiacha ' that would curl your toes !

Hey Gurney ! I have fond memories of New Guinea people - from work and also a touring band that used to call into our local country hall ; Boy, did we have fun with those guys ! "Hey you lot ! Dont just sit there watching or dancing , get up here and grab an instrument ! " I am interested in what martial arts you did - imported or tribal ? I am a bit familiar with Ho'oponopono, but what is HEMA ? Is it Historical European martial arts ? I done a little bit of that. But more so, I study and practice kobudo , specifically ; bokken, bo, jo, tanto, sai kama and eku ( wooden sword, long staff, short staff, dagger/s , tridents / truncheons, sickles and oar ). In the past , nunchaku and tonfa , but they illegal here now. I have also wanted to do rochin and tinbe - the tortoise shell shield and coral headed club (or sometimes a short spear or a machete ). One day . We are on about all different stuff . I am on about meeting new people and learning new 'cultural stuff ' . .... or anything 'funky' ;

I think that is the crux of the issue . Technically , occult ; Origin late 15th century (as a verb): from Latin occultare ‘secrete’, frequentative of occulere ‘conceal’, based on celare ‘to hide’; the adjective and noun from occult- ‘covered over’, from the verb occulere . ( even perhaps; the study, observation and putting into practice of the 'concealed' or 'not outwardly obvious or known' causes and energies behind things ) Has come to the Meaning mystical, supernatural, or magical powers, practices, or phenomena. ( Of which Shamanism is involved with anyway ) Now, like 'money' or 'administration' or anything really , it can be put to good or bad uses . Some good uses (IMO) is using the techniques and practices to reprogramme improve, liberate and develop the self as an empowered individual . Some bad uses are to use those similar techniques to programme, control, oppress and limit individuality so people are a better 'tool of the state' . No doubt this occurs, and has for a long time . That is probably what Taomeow's protest is about ? (I'm thinking these questions are more directed at Taomeow ? So ....

Aha , I see . In my case , I was fortunate enough to get involved with an ' anarchistic ' western 'mystery school' (not that it ever made it immune to claims that it was the opposite ) . I recently posted this elsewhere here ; LET IT BE KNOWN that there exists, unknown to the great crowd, a very ancient Order of sages, whose object is the amelioration and spiritual evolution of mankind by means of conquering error and aiding men and women in their efforts of attaining the power of recognising the truth. This Order has existed already in the most remote times and it has manifested its activity secretly and openly in the world under different names and in various forms: it has caused social and political revolutions and proved to be the rock of salvation in times of danger and misfortune. It has always upheld the banner of freedom against tyranny in whatever shape this appeared, whether as clerical or political or social despotism or oppression of any kind. Regarding the 'opposition to Shamanism' , I have observed this in some cases , one noticeably from the Golden Dawn in their book, the section on attribution of Tarot to the sphere of the earth ... everything is attributed to the northern hemisphere, the south is relatively blank , a reason is give ; due to its lack of spirituality and knowledge . Errrrmmmm , to a person who is actively studying and practising a shamanic tradition from one of the oldest cultures on the planet ( whose system enabled them to live and survive for over 50.000 years , regardless of floods, droughts, climate change and a massive ocean level rise ) , I find those Golden dawn comments rather ...... up their own arse !

Mhe ... those people you describe are just mere idiots trying to use justifcations that they think are beyond others . The scene is full of em . I got asked to go to a psychic fair once and offer my services free for the good of the industry One woman was a channeller with some 'angel' or something and also sold a product (some oil or essence ) to help you get in contact with your higher spirit or something else equally obscure. Then there was another woman who did the same . Then the first did more channelling and 'was told' that the others product was inferior , and people should actually buy hers instead Cant argue with an angel (Then I found out the guy that asked me to do tarot for free there was also doing tarot ... and chaging under the table for it . Ho Hum

Shaman weapon ; 'occultist' weapon

although I dont really understand the Vs bit in the title . In my experience it is the 'occultists' and shamans against oppressors in government and private industry. In the OP it seems 'oppressive government ' Vs anyone associated with a movement seen to 'threaten' the current 'establishment' .

Years back, we went to Sydney to join in protest against attempt at implementing 'The National Resource Package legislation' ( which basically means that anything considered a national resource - coal, oil, land ... anything - can over ride any existing legislation that protects it - ecological, land rights, environment, pollution, etc laws - we surrounded the building where the meeting was with a large number of people and started circling around it and chanting "Out Demons" .. I think it spooked them .... going by the faces looking out the windows . Then later that afternoon the protests went to Parliament House where they where attempting to ass the legislation they had worked on. Things got a little ..... over the top ... and the police moved in to arrest us. But just then , other members of parliament came out on to the steps and instructed the police to go inside and arrest some members who where breaking the law inside , by attempting to snowball the legislation through and not to arrest us, who where upholding the law. Police got confused , so no one got arrested . One thing I did notice though, when we first arrived and set up a 'base camp' in Hyde Park ( with tents and campfires ) the police freaked and ordered an immediate pack up and leave - we be back later and if anything here we confiscate it, or anyone loitering will be arrested . We where wondering what to do and this mob of Aboriginals turned up, added their camp on to ours and raised their flag . When the police came back they looked shocked and asked them what they where doing. After the explanation they asked how long they planned to stay. the Aboriginals said they would be gone before the weekend and the police said okay and left . W .... T ..... F ... ! Thats when I decided to throw my lot in with them, instead of the hippies . On a lesser note ; But all that changed in round 4. St Kilda defeated Collingwood at Victoria Park and Nicky Winmar famously stuck it up the Magpie racists when he lifted his jumper and pointed to his skin as he walked from field. Immediately afterwards, Allan McAlister put his foot in his mouth when he said, "As long as Nicky Winmar behaves well, like a white person, then all the people at Collingwood will show him respect" There was a furore. People everywhere attacked the Collingwood Prez. Aboriginal leaders called for an apology, which McAlister resisted against, believing he was misquoted or misunderstood. This dragged out for two weeks. It was big news at the time. An indigenous tribal elder made front page headlines when he "pointed the bone" and placed a curse on the Magpies. People thought it was a bit of a joke, even though the elder was deadly serious and not the crackpot that many believed. And from that moment, things just fell apart for Collingwood. Their season unravelled. They lost their next six games in a row. It seemed like every week, 3 or 4 of their players succumbed to injury: soft tissue, knees, broken bones, you name it. In the blink of an eye, their season became a nightmare. The Magpies tumbled from the top 4 to the bottom 4 (4th to 12th) and the football world rejoiced in their misery. Belatedly their President made an apology and the curse was lifted. But the damage had been done. Despite storming home to win 9 of their next 10 games, Collingwood missed out on the the finals by half a game. True story. https://www.apnews.com/aa7bb43e6d412b03983df18d5c661cf3

.... I realise some people dont appreciate my sense of humour ; recently I made a joke about a car accident and eveyone just gave me a bad look. One guy actually complained verbally ; " Car accidents are NOT funny, property is damaged , hardship is caused , people get injured ... at least wait until the ambulance leaves ! "

Its times like these i feel the need to make a joke (on an entirely different subject , of course ) to 'ease the tension' . But I usually fail , and make things worse . Like the comedian who was trying his best to lift the mood during his performance but he said that he noticed, no matter what he did, a couple in the front row just sat there looking glum and depressed . He said " As a comedian, I felt it was my duty to lift their spirits, so I had to ask them . ' I noticed you have not laughed or even smiled once, is there something wrong ? ' 'Yes', they replied, 'Recently our son was taken by a shark' . '" Boy, was that a downer . The whole audience slumped and a dark cloud descended over my performance . Again, as a comedian, I thought it my duty to try and lift spirits with a joke, so I offered .... 'Oh well, maybe the shark took him somewhere nice . ' "

....... or just not responding . That's the other tactic

No, I am saying , in the past you did a really bad job of that, it was illogical and unreasonable ... that is , you didnt do your best ... or if that was your best, its 'worthy of ridicule' . Clear yet ? Again, I am talking about the past history here and how it has influenced any further occurrence, and apparently THAT cant even be said without simila tactics being used ... right now . 'We' do do 'we' ? Does that apply retrospectively, does this 'we' of yours cover the past WMP posters here ( and their antics) ? To date, several people have claimed to represent this 'we' , some seem copies of each other and some seem entirely different , so I am wondering who qualifies this 'we' of 'appointed representatives' . I mean .... I could just start putting 'my we' on it

I . One of my first public readings at the market ( I had done them before , but the first at this market , in the area where I still reside-) I did it for years and I stopped years back ) . The weird guy that had been camped in our orchid sees me and the cards ; ' Do read cards , I'll have a go . " Oh dear ! Okay, do you have a question ? < thinks ... then in serious confidence > 'When I see dogs , ya know, walking around and stuff , I want to have sex with them. Its kinda weird, I know, but I think, right then, I want to have sex with them . " " In public ? " " Yeah, right then, on the spot, there . " "Okey dokey < lays out some cards > " ... the cards are telling me you should urgently seek professional help. It seems a psychological problem, I'd say, see a psychologist, go to the general doctor and tell him what you told me and ask him for a referral ." II . 'Dan' , the dickhead ( and later revealed ' kiddy fiddler' ) is a super cool new age guy and peeps adore him (but not me, I can tell instinctively he is an arsehole ) . All of a sudden one Saturday at the markets I have got no readings, not even any regulars , whatever . I go for a stroll and here is Dan the Dickhead with a set up little tarot table doing readings , he has make up on, is touting himself as a 'magician', has a homemade cape on and a very tall pointed hat with moons and stars on it and a huge glitter plastic wand thingo that he is prancing around with. And there is a fucking line up of people waiting for a reading . After that I had virtually no clients for weeks , a regular returned and said they felt uneasy about tarot now. I asked why and , yep, they went to Dan for a reading and according to them 'Said the weirdest shit ' . I asked them what it was and effen hell, - psycho . But the thing is , he 'looked' good ( to them ) [ One of the most dangerous things for the normal on the path of magic is ( also relationships, and many things in life ) ; glamour ... glamour (countable and uncountable, plural glamours) (countable) An item, motif, person, image that by association improves appearance. Witchcraft; magic charm; a spell affecting the eye, making objects appear different from what they really are. quotations ▼ A kind of haze in the air, causing things to appear different from what they really are. (Can we add an example for this sense?) Any artificial interest in, or association with, an object, or person, through which it or they appear delusively magnified or glorified. (uncountable) Alluring beauty or charm (often with sex appeal). ] III . One time, its busy I look up and people are lined up . So I disperse them ( for privacy of current reading ) and tell them to come back later and allocate times . I tell the first couple to come back in an hour, but they look confused . They come back and I ask if they want a reading together or separate , they look confused again and go for separate. They have similar cards and dynamics in their readings but one asked 'Why would we want a reading together' " Some couples want that, some dont . " I responded . " But we aren't a couple ! I was just standing behind him on the line . " ' Oh ! Oooops . " - well, I dont know why but they did seem like a couple, then there was the similar readings, but I had not told them that, individual readings are private . Then later I saw them talking . A few days later having coffee. Hmmmm . The come back at a latter market ( apart ) and I asked " Are you sure you are not a couple ? " No, they where just talking about how I mistook them for a couple . Hmmm .... then they are both getting 'interesting readings' ... and I am seeing them more together . After a while, she is obviously pregnant ... now they have a baby together They had stopped coming for readings some time before that . Then as time goes on I see 'tarot baby' growing up . - big person now . Tarot baby is an adult now ...... cant help wondering ; if I had never made that 'mistake ' that day ...... ? - or maybe we have little choice in such matters ? and just for fun IV . many cards and positions indicate fertility and this one comes up for 'immediate future' and I am compelled to say " Dont get pregnant ." Well, I received a tirade back ; how stupid, what a thing to say, I would not be that stupid, I dont even have sex, etc etc . Then she gets pregnant and the the word is out (wait for it ) " Dont get a tarot reading off him, you'll get pregnant ! " - Now thats a rumour that could be interpreted in MORE THAN ONE WAY ! Outside ; Inside :

back later ....

But you have done it again ; the argument was not if it was violent or not. Its you that are adding more to it , like suggesting Crowley acted like that , or we should act like that . His take on it was ; - its Ra Hoor Khuit telling us what it will be like If I predict and describe an upcoming hurricane , yes it is 'violent ' , but does that mean that you or me should be violent ? If I say 'watch out for the uprising neo nazi movement , and describe what I think it will devolve to , am I advocating it ?

Its even simpler than that; why take a prediction as supposed direction for action . " A flood is coming " ... do I think I have to go round and turn all the taps on and block the drains to make it flood ?

Seriously ? Take a look at some real nasty people in history , and the people that lived in his time , yes you can include Hitler now . and a guy that took drugs, advocated personal and individual strength and power, insulted the church and Christianity was the wickedest man in the world was he ? Oh yes, there MUST be some truth in that ... because it was written down . If he DID 'receive' it, why do you say 'he was willing to ' do certain things ? Even he says part 3 is Horus telling us what things are going to be like in the upcoming era . Why would that mean , all of a sudden, that these are things Crowley does , or things that you should do ? If you read a prediction that a great war is coming , do you take that as personal advice to go and start shooting people ... or that the prophet goes around shooting people ? There you go then ! You really have to see The Book of the Law in a class of its own. It is nothing like MWT and that should indicate some things to you . Again, the BoL is notoriously difficult and is well known to lead people into rouble via misinterpretation ... even Crowley got jack of that ... read 'The Comment ' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Law#The_Comment also you need to take that book with a heathy dose of scepticism ... I dot know why you are taking it so seriously https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Law#Skeptical_interpretations It was rebellion against the whole church and religion as a ruler of society ; look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenmen and against a system that advocated putting up with oppression becasue you will get what you deserve after you die yeah ... right ! Much of Ch 3 is a 'prediction' of the consciousness that is manifesting , it is about the individual, looking after yourself and 'fuck you Jack, I'm alright ' , Its the age of the individual ... but that doesnt mean it is advocating that behaviour .. it is predicting it . The 'remedy' for this is in Book 1 . The religion of Nuit . Dude ! He invested his whole trip in to what he saw as the surviving ark of the OTO ... a fraternity of brotherhood . Maybe try to learn some principles from other Thelemic stuff than the BoL . Such questions are more on the level of 'The Senate' ( 6th degree) and that requires a WHOLE lot of study and proof of knowledge and experience and background related expertise , before such issues that actually effect peoples lives can be considered . Not just some precursor reading of a very obscure book.

Well, I have been fortunate enough to receive inner teachings that clarify a lot of this confusion . Yet, you have not received those teachings, but have not fallen into the trap of interpreting some of the things in such a bizarre, negative and violent way as Mskied has . So, one wonders where 'that' comes from ? ( We also need to note that Mskied himself admits he never read Book 4 and is wholly ignorant as to its basic introduction as why the book was written in the first place ) - and without understanding any of the history or other dynamic or written works involved in the oppression and emancipation of women . Yes. the Book he is attempting to analyse is an interesting 'Rorschach test ' .... and now .... time for some violent pornography Hitler stuff ;

That does not detract from what I said ; " they cant or won't engage in reasonable conversation of debate , they misquote, wrongly summarise, avoid detract and use all types of tactics, won't answer relevant questions " My comment about 'enjoyment' was from the TBs side , if you note its context and what I was responding to ( you comment about Luke's comment . ) If you really want to defend yourselves, then get your mates to converse and debate reasonably and intelligently , and not use lame and transparent 'tactics' . That is IF they can tell the difference . (I believe its actually so ingrained in some people they dont even know they doing it ... or worse, it has become a 'valid' form of 'communication' ) .

OR So many of you guys ( and I wasnt including you in this previously, but due to your now continual use of 'us ' and 'we' you are certainly now branded as part of that collective ) have carried on - same old / so lame / see above - that anyone else that comes along as a 'we' / part of that collective is seen as just as invalid due to all the other parts and BS of your 'we' that came before . Sure people enjoy conflict, drama, and chaos - takes two of course , but one wonders why so much of that enjoyment is focused in the direction it is . Must be all our fault eh, and WMP is totally innocent .

..... and all the other lame conversation / debate ' tricks ' ? ( I left out another 'tactic' above ; just addressing one item out of numerous on a list . )

Nooooo ! Dont do anything rash ! ..... You still have me ;