Nungali

I have lived in my cabin - one big room with heaps of windows in all the walls, and forest fields mountain and sky all around - that any time I go into a normal room .. even a nice quaint cittage or a mega plush motel room , or a standard domicile ( white plastered board ... 'drywall, I think you call it ) and bright electric lights , I dot like it . I CAN deal with it for a few days, but thats it ! I'm 'ruined' now ! Nature , death, the soul , women .....anything vaguely 'feminine' , we seem to be at war on it ! Come on now Sean - be a good citizen ! ; Let em die . We are all going to die , naturally . Its the reproduction we need to get a handle on . I'm imagining some type of air borne contraceptive virus . yeah but ... gotta draw the line somewhere ... eventually . This was my argument on the commune . Some wanted a HEAP of house sites all over the place . My position was, we have to have some type of limit . So why not make it a comfortable limit ? I mean, I suppose a lot of people want to live in a population density like Paris ... but if you did squash them all into Texas ... what impact on the environment would that make ? Some people want more industry and deny climate change . MY response is , even if climate change doesnt exist ... who wants to live like this anyway ; We got an ancient set of footprints down here , fossilised into the rock , a travelling band of nomads , the footprints show they where with a one legged person . Okay .... I'm considering throwing my lot in with Bruce Pascoe ( a whole revision of Aussie eco agriculture based on indigenous traditions and knowledge * ... but boy ! has that got a loooong way to go (but we started getting there a bit ! ; its now in school geography curriculum * http://theconversation.com/friday-essay-dark-emu-and-the-blindness-of-australian-agriculture-97444 Nowadays part of this is desolate and the 'Simpson's desert' . early explorers say grain harvested and in stacks spreading to the horizon . Earky explorers, near dead and dying of thirst come over a ridge to see this, and are met by indigenous people that give them water , grain cakes and roast duck . This grain survives drought , needs no ploughing and doesnt like fertilizer , phosphate kills it . I mean , what else could you ask for ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Pascoe

Wow ! You threw a lot together there, very quickly . The Sumerian 'systems' and the 'Avestan systems' seemed 'at odds' with each other . They seemed to not know of each other (at certain times in history eg, the 'nations' listed in Vendidad do not seem to indicate Sumer ) . These 'nations' ( trade or culturally connected groups ) seemed to have spanned from the Pamir Mts, through the southern oasis route of Central Asia, through the Zargos and into Anatolia, 'avoiding' the Tigres and Euphrates lower regions and plains . Eventually they coalesced to the east as 'Persia' and attacked (back) the Assyrians . One group held the lower part of the rivers and associated territory and the other the upper parts - there must have been SOME interaction where territory abutted on the rivers ? Language studies of Tajik and in Pamir region is very interesting and has similarities with others far afield . ----- Funny you should mention Ukraine I was thinking this while writing about the 'Old Europe' above ^ . The 'Old European' 'egalitarians' had HUGE settlements around Ukraine ( 'The Burnt House Horizon' ) ..... huge ! Then the 'Indo Europeans' ( warlords) came in and changed the face and ways of Europe . If you trace them back, thru Central Asia, they came in from the north through Kazakhstan and from a belt across the top of that from east to west ('over' Mongolia ') ... essentially today's Russia .

Yes, you high lighted an aspect people usually gloss over , that law code was different (in punishment for the same crime) for the different classes of society , somewhat 'setting a trend' . Later people that where 'more enlightened' , 'fixed it up ' ; The Law applies equally to all men ! Lets make a constitution ! ... Hey ! This doesnt apply to black people ! .... Ummm , we said all Men , they dont count . What about the women ? No, they dont count either , they aren't men . < sigh > ... its been a long struggle . Interesting point about earlier law codes ; if there is a connection between earlier times and their memories recorded in the early Avestas, this was displayed in those people's concept of ' Good Kingship ' ..... some genius came up with the idea that if you treat people better and fairer and allow them to express their culture and help them establish it ( like building them temples and supporting their religion and granting them certain freedoms and rights , then the society might work better , be more peaceful and everyone might enjoy life more . ( They where also the first people to make laws for the protection of and better treatment of animals - also had a higher level of sexual equality , in latter times they even had a women admiral commanding a fleet ) http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/prehistory.htm#epiccycle Radical ! (for those times ) Look at the difference between Nebuchadnezzar (essentially an Assyrian) and Cyrus (essentially a Persian ) !

Its an anomaly compared to what we thought we knew (again, they left the ' know so far' clause out ) but not an anomaly for the time and place . ie. many similar sites around the area This looks interesting , G.T. as a centre for 'conflict mitigation' ; https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/violence-and-the-sacred-in-the-ancient-near-east/ritual-practices-and-conflict-mitigation-at-early-neolithic-kortik-tepe-and-gobekli-tepe-upper-mesopotamia/7D89ABA0D934E5E5616D1552466AAFC4

The piece on Lapis and origins The Origin of Sumerians by Metin Gunduz ABSTRACT Who were the Sumerians? Where did they originate? For those who are not familiar with this remarkable, resourceful and intelligent people, who not only invented writing but also established the true mythological foundations of all main religions of the world, simply put, they taught us almost everything. Four different points regarding the current known archeological evidence are evaluated separately, and the Sumerians’ unique and strongly sacred mythological beliefs related to the lapis lazuli stone and the myth’s origin are analyzed. The uniqueness of the lapis mine location in the Hindu Kush Mountains and the unique (fingerprint) trace element and other physical characteristics of this metamorphic sacred blue stone of the Sumerians are the primary points of focus. The only possible and provable location of their original homeland, “based on the analysis” is; between the Caspian Sea and the Hindu Kush and Kopet Mountains, which is in Turkmenistan. This analysis and conclusion are based on “multiple independent factors”: current archeological excavations, the uniqueness of metamorphic lapis lazuli as a stone and over 6000 years of lapis lazuli mining at a fixed location (absolutely necessary requirements for the origin of strong lapis mythology) and current credible biogeographic DNA evidence and the distribution of R1b haplogroup of “Arbins”, as recently described by Dr. Anatole A. Klyosov. The Sumerians initial migration presumably began with a persistent drought in their original homeland, that eventually forced them to abandon their home migrate and resettle in the southern fertile lands of the Middle East between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers and eventually further south near the banks of Nile River in north east Africa. The source on Avestan locations of Airyana Vaeja and the Kalachakra tradition http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/location.htm http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/tajikistan/page3.htm I have more info linking them together ..... but this might not be the beast you are hunting down .

its to do with what the ancient Avestas are hinting at regarding Airyana Vaeja and some current research done on Lapis Lazuli, . something VERY important to the Sumerians, and its source in ( present) Afghanistan ( ie, they have identified lapis in Sumer as coming from there) . I cleared my desktop of it as I wasnt sure what you were meaning regarding legitimate sources ..... I'll put it up later . Ah ! Legitimate sources of the Sumerian texts . Good not use Sitchen as he cant actually translate them. But its about more what they where up to ? Oh, okay not that, why they never changed . Ummmm .... okay. Oh . okay ( Damn she moves quick ! ) You write very cryptically . I am going to take a guess at what you mean about all this pattern and demolishing and curing. Is it about the beginnings of ' oppression ' ( the black hats against the red faces ? ) , about how we 'changed' ( eg, archaeologically, from open settlements to fortified settlements, from an 'Old Europe' a la Marija Gimbutas - egalitarian, matriarchal, co-operative etc . to patriarchal 'warlord' culture ..... and still continue that pattern ever since ? I am actually fascinated by that topic .... if that;s the topic . I'll enjoy reading anything on that Oooow ... I was just about to post the coke and popcorn gif ! As , inadvertently or not, such a thread would be very entertaining for me . - I know, ! I will go back and post a cartoon at the beginning of this post ( ... I like feeling free ) ( Edit: In case some dont know what I am talking about ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Europe_(archaeology) ) .

But . I thought you where going on ' "legitimized" sources ' to get to 'non-legitimized conclusions ' . And ; " and staying only with the "accepted" "orthodox" "mainstream" etc. sources ". Which is why I offered the above info . I'm confused Or, did you mean sources that only appear in the original Sumerian literature that we have found ? I was offering "legitimized" sources ' from the 'accepted orthodox mainstream' that show a continuation from the Zargos foothills (early 'rain agriculture' ) down into the valley plains ('hydrology' agriculture ) , driven by climate change thru Jamo , Hassana , ancient Samara and Halaf cultures to Urbaid , 7000 to 500 bc . evidenced in pottery , tools , architecture, etc . particularly temple architecture I also have a other papers (yes very recent ) that link them to eastern Central Asia and western Tibet with a surviving mythology in ancient Avestas . Unless I got all the above wrong and what you want are only sources of 'accepted orthodox mainstream legitimate from Sumerian writings themselves ? But if you just want to speculate and have some fun ......

Why not just the central theme and its two 'polarities ' ( law of 3 ) The Main forum is Dao Bums and the other two are Left Cheek Right Cheek .

Errrmmm .... It was the natives of the sub continent and its various native religions that educated me about this . It ain't some Nungalian wackoism. I converse with them a fair bit about Vedanta ( but not here , as they dont post here, as far as I know ) . And yes, Hindu IS a commonly accepted general term for those that dont mind being 'imperialised' and all lumped into one basket . . even though 'Hindu' can be a polytheist, a monotheist or an atheist ( that's some 'religion' ! ) . And , of course, there is our old friend context ... if you can remember why this was stated in the first place and the question that evoked the comment .

Also I have a bit of a problem with this 'out of nowhere' idea . It could also mean that origins have not been found yet, nor ever may be *. Its a fault of 'scientists' and 'professionals' they often write as if they know everything . Rarely a good one pops up and explains 'This is what has been found and indicates things ... SO FAR . " * many old civilisations and settlements would have been on shorelines, now far underwater, or on river deltas under heaps of sediment and in some cases under cities and new settlements that cannot be dug up.

Regarding the 'settlers arriving and no one knows where they where from' ; The Sumerian civilisation emerged from the Ubaidian culture that had been living in the region for thousands of years, and was forced to adapt to climate change. Some climate change refugees may have added to their numbers, perhaps bringing additional new ideas and concepts, though there's no direct evidence for this Sumer ; 4500 – c. 1900 BC Ubaid ; c. 6500 – c. 3800 BC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubaid_period and before that ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarra_culture Various theories of origins, including Anatolia ; http://www.antropologia.uw.edu.pl/SHA/sha-04-07.pdf There have been people going up those rivers for a LOOOOOG time , - since leaving Africa , they probably followed whatever shoreline there was depending on whether a sand bar blocked the gulf and river mouths ,then they may have gone up the Persian Gulf, the Red Sea, Tigres / Euphrates , Indus or ended up in Australia . But as I see, it really is not about where they where from , but .... What they where REALLY ' up to' ? Hmmmmm ....

Thus is like sitting in on a Commune Meeting . So , as usual, at this stage .... < sneaks out back door >

Yes, I think we now getting closer to what Sean envisaged .

yeah but ..... Nungali Law of 3 Oh ... opps .. I mean Oooo cant we just have at east 3 purleeeeze

Anyway , I suggest any further pleading to make the forum confirm to one's personal likes be accompanied by said appropriate gif :

Ahh, ta hell with it . Just have Christian Pagan . ( Thats how we used to sort this problem out )

Cepting no such thing as race either India does encompass various ethnic groups though, and NOT a specific one . As is with ALL things like that .... it is a political / national concept . You are Indian if you have citizenship in India . I hope this is making it all much easier for Sean

Yes, its the same here; there is no 'Aboriginal religion' but many different Aboriginal spiritual traditions . It doesnt stop people generalising though .

Its a dying art .

New 'AEON' Crowley was on about . If you read his idea about it , it is nothing like the NEW AGE ... which was originally started from ideas about 'The Age of Aquarius' . Which was supposed to start from a planetary alignment that occurred way before the Equinoctial Point moved into the Constellation of Aquarius anyway . So its all BS . Remember the song ? And if people think we are IN the 'new age ' , I suppose they can see the obvious ... Harmony and understanding Sympathy and trust abounding No more falsehoods or derisions Golden living dreams of visions Mystic crystal revelation And the mind's true liberation all around us everpresent everywhere ?

How about a Mo pie section that only says one thing 'For mopai go to mopai forum ... I mean , the DO have one , dont they ? If so, why the claim that peeps come here for Mo pai ... give your forum a name that can be easily spotted and will appear at the top of a google search ( sheesh, it aint that hard to figure out is it ? )

and why keep sending in guy after guy saying similar stuff ? ... I guess now they hoping to start it up all over again . lets not forget the big picture and CONTEXT with this one .

Hgggh ... hhhhgghhhh ... nope, cant get it .... Sssss indu . Sindu .... Then Alexander ( the great one ) misspelled it ; moved the S Indus > Sindu .

" In the last 11 years ever since I came back from my 20 years abroad, I realised that the British had coined a word called Hinduism. Like communism and Fascism. But unlike the latter two there was no such thing as Hinduism." https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/no-free-lunch/there-is-no-such-religion-as-hinduism/ " Fast-forward a few hundred years and highly intelligent westerners arrived on the scene. They noticed complete chaos, and various religions – Buddhism, Islam, Sikh. Not to mention that people were worshiping Shiva, and others worshiped Krishna, and others Vishnu, or Hanuman, or Durga, or Kali, and the list goes on and on. To simplify things, we lumped all that together and invented a religion called Hinduism, which is now considered one of the 5 major world religions." https://www.zingale.org/2011/12/there-is-no-such-thing-as-hinduism/ Hinduism was just a word the British colonials used to describe in a single word the vast kaleidoscope of different spiritual practices of an entire subcontinent. Unfortunately in trying to describe such a vast de-centralised plethora of ideas into a single ism, is a mischaracterisation, which imo has left many people myself included with an inaccurate view of the spiritual traditions in India and their vast diversity. http://www.selectsmart.com/DISCUSS/read.php?33,717250 ' So, Hindu religion is "Sanatan Dharma" and "Savrvatrika Dharma" "Veda" is the first and supreme text of it so it's called "Vaidik Dharma" ttps://www.quora.com/Hindu-is-not-a-religion-according-to-ancient-texts-So-what-is-the-religion-name-that-is-popularly-termed-as-Hinduism ... and so on