Nungali

Yup. Thats a main point a lot of people miss. The bigger the block of stone the less cutting required . Put the blocks on rails and rollers and the number of men needed to move it is greatly reduced. Also waste and 'chippings are reduced in a big block, and if it breaks, just trim it to make two or three smaller ones. Still, I do find it at the limits of my comprehension ; Note marks from cutting through the rock with stone pounders

This time lag , it is especially relevant to those that claim an Atlantis influence in the new World . It just dont add up

In this thread we are going on Plato's accounts . remember . Unless we need to change 'one or two minor details' to suit our narrative

The 'problem' seems to be that I am coming from a research position with nothing to prove and Michael is coming from a position of trying to demonstrate to others what he basically knew all along from his own 'inner knowledge ' . I think that is rather 'problematical' . Anywayz , moving along ; Atlantis of course . But that has yet to be shown . The usual answer is ; all that advanced stone work that was done later must have come from somewhere . ... Atlantis of course . It all got sunk ... along with the evidence . The type that went across the ice and sea to the Americas Heaps ! Look at the feast evidence from places like Orkney and Gobelki Tepe ; HUGE amounts of cattle bones all eaten at once in mega feats ... later genetic analysis revealed they where all from one herd . keeping and tending cattle ; herding seems to have developed before animal husbandry (whose definition is related to agriculture and farming ) . " ...these bones are the remains of wild animals that were hunted and brought to the mound to feed the people staying there. The hunters targeted a wide variety of animals native to the region including large game such as aurochs, red deer, onagers, and wild boar, as well as small game such as fox, hare, and wild fowl (chukar partridges, doves, and ducks). In terms of numbers, gazelles were the pre- ferred game species, but in terms of meat provision, wild cattle (aurochs) ranked first, providing up to 50% of the meat consumed at the site https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jens_Notroff/publication/303823951_What_modern_lifestyles_owe_to_Neolithic_feast_The_early_mountain_sanctuary_at_Gobekli_Tepe_and_the_onset_of_food-production/links/5756862f08ae155a87b9d5ff/What-modern-lifestyles-owe-to-Neolithic-feast-The-early-mountain-sanctuary-at-Goebekli-Tepe-and-the-onset-of-food-production.pdf They just hung around for 7000 years then invaded Athens That's why I keep suggesting Also, one might think that the later Egyptian stonework, that shows organic forms * just might be a representation of the buildings and temples and shrines that where originally made of those organic ( and hard to preserve in the archaeological record) forms * fluted stone columns carved that look like bundles of reeds together, surfaces carved to look like woven reed mats, lintels carved to look like palm trunks, etc . Pre-Dynastic Egypt is not a very pop subject .... compared to the Pyramid Age , so many people do not know much about it . Here is a good starter (and has the good preface for 'Evidence based research ' ) Graham Handcock has published stuff to say it wasnt actually Atlantians that passed on advanced civilisation and technology to us ... it was the Denisovans . ... because now we do have some genetic evidence for that . Then, expect to be flooded by pics of 'impossible' and 'unexplained' technology from the ancient world The more we find out through new finds and research the more we realise how sophisticated and complex it was . This is VERY much the case in Australia over the last few decades and is only now just starting to get into public consciousness.

I see . ' Inner knowledge ' is it ? or did your mind just get influenced by certain subjects, readings and people. This is about demonstrating to others what you knew all along from your 'inner knowledge ' ? Actually, that sorta surprised me coming from you . Surely you understand where that leads to ? I suppose that is why you get reactive when I criticise things you come up with , maybe you feel the demonstration of your inner knowledge to others and what you intuitively knew all along is being criticised ? As I said , we are coming from VERY different places on this . Maybe I should retire from such debates ... it isnt my trip at all and NOT at all where I am coming from. I am absolute NOT claiming any inner knowledge on this and have no desire whatsoever to demonstrate to other readers that the information I am putting here comes from 'what I knew all along' . believe it or not , I am still learning ... I just have learnt to be cautious about sources . Really ...have a read of that preface in the Egyptian history book you have but have not read yet ; about 'evidence based research' . Cant wait until we get to the 'geological evidence' ! Geology is one of my favourite subjects too ! The explanation was developed by examining evidence in multiple fields, Not by just looking at a horse head carving and thinking they had bridles on , or did not . I also realise that 'authorities in the field' are often bugbears for those that have special 'inner knowledge ' , that funnily enough often disagrees with other evidence, the wider picture and 'authorities in the field' . Maybe its a conspiracy and a cover up the historians and archaeologists are in on Well, my 'inner knowledge' told me they where . And by the way, that ^ is your 'therefore' not mine , I didnt say that , what I said was .... well, what I said . I found the first image easily, I am familiar with a whole range of horse images from that cave art and didn't recognise it . In searching I found a few more I am not familiar with , but not ( b ) and ( c .) One would think if they where so unusual and did denote such an unusual thing they might be easier to find and a lot would be written about them, like image (a) I wanted to find them to do a further examination on them (instead of just accepting things at face value ) and see the history of their interpretations , just like I did with image (a ) . That threw up a whole LOT of history, a varied interpretation and an explanation, of what they represent . Well, I did think I would just forget it, the lost post was very annoying , in that, you would click on that link and be taken to that book and it had the same 3 images of the horses on the page that it opened up on, I tried to salvage that but messed it up . I hate to break it to you , but if you click and drag down on the side bar ....... the rest of the book comes into view ! .... MAGIC ! It was set on the pages with the three same images , but I lost the 'mark' ( that specific page in the address link) , but it is in there (see my above comment about losing post) IMO it is good to look at the development and history of an idea or theory, not just the opposing views. The question of Palaeolithic horse domestication has always been debated since the first evidence against the idea arose . It is far from settled, this idea that Palaeolithic people domesticated horses , hunted them, yes, the evidence seems to show that clearly, but it does not show domestication. What IS shown is some curious horse depictions that can be explained otherwise - so its at least inconclusive . But carry on, lets say for the sake of this discussion that they did .. I am curious to see how this pans out . .

Bed; antique cedar with inlaid pearl shell and marquetry on header and footer of nymph playing flute . Home built base added on top to give mattress more height . Mattress; 'Clark Rubber' new model thin mattress, memory foam outer latex core, good price too .

Of course it has a meaning ! All sorts of things constitute my life as well. but I dont allow them to intrude into something I am trying to factually investigate . I assume we are coming from very different places here . That is why I keep suggesting we focus on thread title / subject ( a note on M. Settegast: " ... she doesn't seek to identify Atlantis as a real place, and questions the existence of the island, but instead identifies the culture on Atlantis described by Plato with Magdalenian culture (17,000 – 12,000 BP) of the Lascaux cave art. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Settegast ... I am still confused why it is thought a culture with a navy that invaded Athens , on the one hand , is considered the culture that made better cave art and stone arrow and spear points ? ? ? ) These are obvious non- original depictions . (a ) is well known and has been a source of debate for years ... it needs to be compared to the horses that where around THEN Here is a variant description ; " Carving of a horse head from Saint-Michel d'Arudy, France, showing facial lines that indicate the line demarcating the mealy muzzle and the natural contours ... " Its an old argument and not backed up , even though 'your guys' disagree with consensus view ... which I should point draws from a wide range and variety of sources to build a larger picture ... not just occasional one of re interpreted pieces that are given enough validity to change the big picture . The argument also included some cases f found bridles and mouth pieces ... these have since been explained ... so now they are not included in the 'evidence' any more . I cant find the originals of (b) and (c) , I have looked pretty extensively ... image (a) came up straight away . (Now, you might think I am being .snarky here, but I have learnt not to trust such reproduced images, some I have busted for being entirely faked. Which is why I no longer give such things automatic validity but prefer to investigate them . ) But I did find a book that uses image a as you suggest and it goes on to claim Magdalenian as influenced by Atlantis ... perhaps the original source for the book you are reading and where Handcock got it from ? Its about how humans have been on earth for millions of years . https://books.google.com.au/books?id=eFkoDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT82&lpg=PT82&dq=Magdalenian+horse+and+atlantis&source=bl&ots=MZVOPDKKXy&sig=ACfU3U1GYRM6Pv8z_UnQwdprcCifKx2z2w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjHgbOtyf3gAhUO6XMBHV5sBfQQ6AEwDHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Magdalenian horse and atlantis&f=false Before Atlantis: 20 Million Years of Human and Pre-Human Cultures https://books.google.com.au/books?id=eFkoDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Before+Atlantis:+20+Million+Years+of+Human+and+Pre-Human+Cultures+magdalena+horse+bridles&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6_byKyv3gAhWMrY8KHbCuBzgQ6AEILzAB#v=onepage&q&f=false It shows the same three pictures of the horses exactly as yours does above . I had a much longer post done with references to all the above and links , but then I clicked on the blue bit above and .... gone ! Didnt come back either . There is a LOT in that post, Do you want me to comment on all the issues there and get further away from the title subject ? ... I managed to salvage some links on horse bridles https://www.donsmaps.com/hoax.html http://rockartblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/paleolithic-horse-domestication.html Paul Bahn seems to be the one mostly responsible. his other 'proofs' have since been explained ... here is an academic view https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ystMAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA316&lpg=PA316&dq=Paul+Bahn,+horse+domestication&source=bl&ots=Ot-LUrHMWU&sig=ACfU3U0sLn7s0MYSeSnMh30hTNPAz-0COA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjw--G93v3gAhVY8HMBHTF8BwIQ6AEwAHoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=Paul Bahn%2C horse domestication&f=false

.... errrhm ... doesnt matter .

I meant to get back to you on this 30 years to build the Great Pyramid 'thing' and the 'impossible' rate of block finishing per day, according to the numbers . You might find this interesting ; https://ashtronort.wordpress.com/the-great-pyramid-of-giza-20-years-to-build/ We also need to think about it being a seasonal project as well, at least parts of it. Most stone came via the Nile, whose levels and currents fluctuated greatly . So it may not have been 'year round work' . What says Apech on the time it took to build TGP ?

How did people get to Australia during an interglacial ; ocean lower, sea distances between land greater. ? I can not give a reference to it but it arose in a conversation elsewhere; there was a case where a huge floating raft of vegetation broke off a river bank in a flood, In floated downstream and out into the ocean, it had plants and fruiting trees and little animals and some monkeys on it . Far fetched ? Well, the Uru people of Peru live like that today !

Well, its not the only case like that .There is evidence of people living in the extreme north (Siberia) and in North Africa ( Jebel Irhoud in Morocco) * last interglacial . But they appeared to have died out and left no genetic ancestors . * Summary Researchers have redated a long-overlooked skull from a cave called Jebel Irhoud in Morocco to a startling 300,000 years ago, and unearthed new fossils and stone tools. The result is the oldest well-dated evidence of Homo sapiens, pushing back the appearance of our kind by 100,000 years. The new discoveries, reported in Nature, suggest that our species came into the world face-first, evolving modern facial traits while the back of the skull remained elongated and similar at least in this respect to those of Neandertals and other archaic humans. The findings also suggest that the earliest chapters of our species's story may have played out across the African continent. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6342/993

Its all go . This morning at first light the bulk charge led indicator went on on control unit. That means charge was going into batteries. They were showing 12.68 v last night , so to see a charge going in on top of that before sunrise is very impressive ! half a mo ' . . . . . . cloudy all morning and now batteries show 13.41 !

Well, in this thread, apparently we are going on Plato's descriptions. But I have noted in some cases , elements of those descriptions can be ignored or modified when looking for other locations and indicators . Nothing else, like the things you mentioned, seems defined. I think Michael now needs to make a brief summary of points relating to what he does mean, and the parameters of the discussion and any conclusions so far re. Plato's descriptions of Atlantis and how that interfaces with the Ice Age . ... . . and 'Deluge' . (which I have to assume means the ocean rise after the end of the ice age ? - diluvian ; flood ) ... or are we talking about the 'Biblical Flood' ... a flood that covered the 'whole world' ? Yeah . The more we find new things and learn more about them, the larger our picture gets . GT did that . New histories being published in Australia (actually focusing on ignored parts of old histories ) do that . Who knows what we may dig up in Egypt or elsewhere this year ? Ancient Okney is fascinating , a complex linked to other complexes 1000s of km away, people freely travelled between them, on foot apparently , old versions of Stonehenge where one of the centres. all before the building of the Great Pyramid. That was not known about until relatively recently . Also , people functioned well in some places DURING the ice age .... even in Tasmania, amidst glaciers ! There where ice free 'refuges' . The world was a very different place back then The carving out by flood of the English Chanel must have been spectacular . 07.html ... as long as you where not 'downstream' of it

Well, all sorts of things are being thrown up here ... including cocaine mummies ! To put forward the opposing arguments on all of it we would never get to the summary of findings about Atlantis and the Ice Age (if there is ever going to be one made ! ) and then get on to the next part . At the beginning Sterny set out what he hoped to achieve in this thread. Its a big subject considering all the things that can be drawn into it . I am happy to talk about ideas about how the GP was constructed, but that would be another big thread. If you want to make a thread like that I will be happy to join in . Maybe Apech will to as he has some interesting ideas about usage . It seems you specifically are questioning the time period it took to build it . So do I . Also look at the time period and the King's reigns that cover nearly ALL the large pyramids built ... it doesnt make sense . Not to me . Supposedly a few Kings had numerous pyramid constructions gong at once . But I also dont automatically assume that priests incanted spells and the blocks levitated and 'flew' up the sides of the pyramids . Or that they cut stones with solar rays reflected off a big golden mirror , or any other wacky idea that just entered someone's head. It seems a trait of certain humans, over time, just not now, that when stumped by a problem, they have to think up a silly solution ... the important thing seems ( to them ) not how silly the solution is, but the concept to think they solved it seems to overrule their common sense and logic and the facts, and archaeology . Tracking down REAL solutions is actually very hard years long work and is updated by continuous new finds as we go along (like Merer's diary) But for here, in regard to some of the issues I would refer you to the work of Mark Lehner https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/35-who-made-a-difference-mark-lehner-114734077/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Lehner and Jean-Pierre Houdin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Pierre_Houdin on construction. Now we also have a diary , a first hand account of a TGP 'stone mover' / inspector, very interesting stuff ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diary_of_Merer https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ancient-egypt-shipping-mining-farming-economy-pyramids-180956619/ But as for specifics on labour , that is rarer , I do have a book on it (in storage, cant remember title or author ) by a modern construction project engineer ... as with others , its based on modern estimates (and that depends on what techniques one uses in construction to calculate hours and rates of production - and we aren't sure on methods so it's all up in the air anyway ). I will attempt to dig it out and have a look .

... by people that haven't studied mythology and cultural anthropology perhaps. A lot of things are said ....'being said' isnt a token of validity. I would rather say some myths have a true core ... others do not - apparently . EG . some Aboriginal 'myths' talk about the sea level rising and the land slowly being inundated, and the 'hero ancestors' that bought palm seeds way inland to plant by water , making 'oasis' , both now proven by modern research. The other side is, for example, the Bundjalung myth that they originally came from Venus . (Aside from the issue that Bundjalung elders also say they came from Arnhem Land , down the east coast in a canoe, out of the earth , where the first people ever in the world , etc . The modern interpretations (and using them to their own advantages - usually book sales ) is also present in this example, with the Strong Brothers, seizing on the Venus myth and tying it in with a whole lot of modern day alternative alien bullshit . Such alternative people seem to just pick and choose what suits their agenda, then use the indigenous myths as giving validity to their ideas and agendas. That is what I was on about . Igne Natura Renovatur Integra So then, we shall restrict ourselves to the idea of Atlantis presented by Plato . (Although I have noted tenancies to not worry so much about that when other ideas are presented . If it is all about what Plato said, then we would restricted to the idea of a huge island in front of Straights off Gibraltar along with the others descriptions given by him. Not much I would say. Most development comes about after history starts to be recorded. Sure we have 'stories' . For example "persian' history starts with a note in the annals of Shalmaneser II, an Assyrian king, who reigned in the 9th century bce, where 'Parsa' are recorded as coming down from the mountain wilderness and into the valley area to the east . Much later, Persian 'history' (or 'ore-history' ) is written and a whole era is written about replete with King lists, 'history' , heroes, dragons , flying horses , etc - 'Pishdadian Era' https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-asia/early-rulers-persia-part-i-pishdadian-dynasty-005439 YET ... http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/iranian-identity-ii-pre-islamic-period Nah . Yep ... but not multi ton 'flying blocks' . . . using 'psychic forces' ... really this is in the category of 'wild speculation' . They are examples of techniques , not whole projects . It was in response to what you stated : "a s long as nobody actually replicates some of the ancient Egyptians' most astounding feats with nothing but primitive tools " Do you really expect modern archaeologists to mobilise half a country workforce and economy to build a complete replica of the Great Pyramid to prove a point to 'occult theorists' ? Its more of a question of organisation motivation innovation economy politics . And those are things that motivated it in the past and would would stop it or make it 'impossible' today , more so than any technological achievements. Also I can post a wealth of info on how they supposedly DID do it . But is that our focus at present ? It is ice age and Plato's Atlantis isnt it ? Yes, best NOT to mention ideas that people moved 200 ton blocks like lego as that is a vast speculation , an exaggeration and I will not discuss 'giants' here . Thats for fine work, not for cutting huge blocks. I can show you how it is thought they did the majority of that , it isnt with copper saws . I can answer and show all this, if you want continual tangential discussions , or I can stick (like I said last post ) to Ice age and atlantis via Plato . Wrong assumptions dont add up very well. Hancock ... Shmamcock . My fault is ; I try to look at both sides reasonably and I am critical of weakness or woo in either side, when I see it . Good. becasue I can show pages of scientifc discourse and analysis of the results showing otherwise. Do I keep answering these things thrown thrown up - or do I still keep tyring to stick to Atlantis and Ice Age . Let's focus on that part for a bit then ? Well, you made the claim, let's see 'em. It is fairly essential to your claim of Atlantean influence on Magdalenian art . I would love to see a picture of a Magdalenian horse with bridle ... and I dont mean some obscure line drawn that some dude says is a bridle or lead . OK . I hope we look at the evidence for it too On the previous post as well ? I did that and said I would restrain myself at present to issues about ice age and atlantis. .... I was just being 'polite' answering all the above

This is NOT the place to be a dumping ground of topics, videos or pictures that just appear to be spam or propaganda of controversial ideas . .... If there is a pattern of a member(s) wanting to start topics with no words .... Yes , that should be discouraged - thank you ! Very annoying that someone wanting to ''debate'' or present an idea just posts a longish video, expects you to watch it , with the relevant info in there .... somewhere.

What they are all about is indeed the crux. We can get to that by looking at essential similarities in all initiation traditions - cross culturally - Then removing the non- essential local cultural dressing. But the Greek and Roman mysteries seemed to have set a pattern for what remains today in western mystery schools. But there are also things which are similar across the board ( time and culture) one is a 3 stage system - I have even found that in Australian Aboriginal initiation systems. In regard to modern expressions, I and my group did a few cycles of a modern system of 'The Rites of Eleusis'. It was a BIG effort ( re writing for relevance, temple set up, finding the right music , making costumes, learning pages of script for one off performance of 1 of 7 rites every 10 days, ) and we did them each year for about 6 years, but extremely rewarding. A common feature in this and in many ancient traditions is the acting out of certain events in a God's life or mythological stories . There are also other roles for related mythological or astrological characters. One thing about doing multiple series is one can do different roles and get varied perspectives from them, Or play a related role throughout one series ( eg, those related to variations of an astrological sign or planet.. We created some extra ones to go along with those below; Rite of Pluto; with the mythology of Demeter decent and rise from underworld and a 'Rite of earth' based on various Aboriginal stories. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rites_of_Eleusis Eg https://hermetic.com/crowley/the-rites-of-eleusis/luna .

You should see the milk I bough in 2014 .!

All the solar gear arrived. Got it all except the generator. Now to put it all together ..... got half way through .... oh, the gas fridge arrived at the same time The back and underside of its workings and have numerous places for rat entry and a nice warm nesting area , , tubes and cables to chew and insulation to rip out and make a nest .. So its off to the hardware for rat proof metal mesh ; cut , bend, shape, fold, wire together and attach .... somehow But ... after 30 + years without a fridge ....

A basic Boy Scout lesson ..... DO NOT open a bulging tin ... and especially DO NOT eat what was in that tin !

The traditional method is by gutting and beheading a Greenland or sleeper shark ( The meat of the Greenland shark is poisonous when fresh, due to a high content of urea and trimethylamine oxide, but may be consumed after being processed) and placing it in a shallow hole dug in gravelly sand, with the now cleaned cavity resting on a small mound of sand. The shark is then covered with sand and gravel, and stones are placed on top of the sand in order to press the shark. In this way the fluids are pressed out of the body. The shark ferments in this fashion for 6–12 weeks depending on the season. Following this curing period, the shark is then cut into strips and hung to dry for several months. During this drying period a brown crust will develop, which is removed prior to cutting the shark into small pieces and serving. Archaeologist Neil Oliver tasted it in the BBC documentary Vikings as part of examining the Viking diet. He described it as reminiscent of "blue cheese but a hundred times stronger". Chef Ainsley Harriott, during his series Ainsley Eats the Streets, was unable to handle the heavy ammonia taste and described it as "like chewing a urine-infested mattress". It doesnt LOOK as bad as an old urine soaked mattress . I guess ya gotta smell and taste it as well as look at , to get the full effect

What ? By electrocuting them ?

How to open the can @ 7:30

Oh ... you dont like those ? Perhaps rather, you are a surstromming man ?