Nungali

I don't see a recruitment drive .... but I thought , for a moment ... just a glimpse ... I saw some more pie ? Pie anyone ? Its yummy, tempting and mysterious . ..... . .... ysterious .

Yes, I meant to respond to that and I sorta did above ... but see below ; It doesn't have to be from a book, I said a 'tradition' and one with recognisable terms . As I said , you or this person must have some tradition , so use those terms and explain it . Simple . There is little point in me imposing some other tradition on it and asking you to use those terms . Although you appear to be polite helpful and understanding , it still seems that this is going in circles . Or is being obscured ... or evaded or something .

Ohhh ! I thought it was a typo of fuck knuckle Fuck-Knuckleunknown Brick-like intellegence coupled with new levels of arse-holiness. My boss is a real fuck-knuckle CT bro , you be carpin all those diems !

As I said, pure LSD source was gone, years before. I had the occasional mushroom when I moved here out of the city (30 years back) . Mushrooms, like the brew mentioned earlier, are a composition of substances and each shroom can be different from another and can change due to a variety of circumstances. They also have substances that can cause different effects. Back then I developed liver problems, and I asked my doc (also a TCM doc ) about taking them. He said it was probably okay, but would not recommend it , especially more than a few times. I wanted to work on improving my health so decided not to do it anymore. It was a choice I made to have one more, to see what would happen after all the experiences I had accrued more recently.

Yeah but there is a hint of some secret group going on here that the rest of don't know nothin about !

Then, portray it using more accurate terms ! ( see ... you even got peeps guessing now . )

Response 1 . ; What is 'avatar level ' . Is it a level of consciousness in some system .... a video game , a 'lowmort' ... some concept in your mind ... what ?! Response 2 ; Ohh ! Avatar level ! Cool man ! Yeah my 'sensing' feels he is not at 'avatar level' either . Response 3 ; .... Response 4 : Merlin was an 'incarnate divine teacher' ? ! Merlin who ?

The difference is . if I say " I used Chi " (or any other term ) and you asked me "What the hell you talking about ? " I could answer you without using vague and obscure terms, and getting uptight and defensive . OR I could find shared terms of reference and explain it to you more technically If I answered and said "chi stuff sorta astral like from higher planes " ... well, that might satisfy some ... but certainly not me , and I would expect to be asked to explain myself . And I thought many people here , especially long timers , were rather experienced in this stuff and its terms, from a few traditions . . . . ?

well , 5 pages later and I still see no clarification of the first post , regardless of all the questions asked .

I think the issue here is one of nomenclature . Surely this person and his group or whoever they are follow some system of navigation through levels of conscious mind ? I gave a few examples of the systems I am familiar with and their terms . I am not as familiar with Vedic and Buddhist maps and terms. But if I had such an experience or was in a system where someone had such experience and wanted to communicate it I would use those terms ... not vague New Age terms of astral like stuff and 'formless realms' . If this was Daoism , would not that have its own system, maps and terms as well ? Why not use them ? Unless this system is some vague New Age or Anthroposophical system that uses such vague terms already . We saw a technical 'level of consciousness' term used a few pages back, and I highlighted it and put the wiki definition up . Why not use the terms and mapping of the system involved , that's what I want to know. If I was claiming to someone that I fixed an electrical problem and I said " the sparky glowing thing got connected to the black thing with all the thin long metal bits coming out ... " . Or is this group so secret it cant reveal its system or terms so has to use a collection of vague words to announce achievements to us ?

Hey ! I want in too !

I don't think a shortcoming in ' literature' is the issue . I will tell you what I think the issue is . You have a busy 'broadly focused mind ' lets say . Its making connections all over the place, so some of those nodes of connections are more significant to you than others and also relate to external stimuli and others communications. So that's how you respond , off the nodes. All the other connections that make what you say seem sensible , to you , are actually inside your head and your 'internal dialogue ' . But we cant hear your internal dialogue, so we cant make the sensible connections , so when just reading the words you right, for others, it comes out as .... . We all do it, to an extent, but usually we have comparative internal connections so we can fill in the gaps and sometimes understand each others cryptic communications . But when you are having mostly internal connections and just sprouting random seemingly quantum words and phrases, that seem unconnected to us , you become not clearly understood. I have a woman friend that does this a LOT .. half the time I am " WTF ! How did you get to there ! " and she will explain and I go 'ok' and remind her I am not psychic . (She also sometimes verbalises when she thinks she is just thinking ... I also had a GF that did that in her sleep, but verbalised from her unconscious ... oh my goodness ! The things I heard ! )

Wow ! That's a question ! Being eclectic I have had many spiritual experiences of different types so they are hard to compare eg . A vision when I was young that totally zapped me, in , as they say 'broad daylight' , and interacted and penetrated me and effected my whole life and is something I can still draw on and communicate with today, Sitting in the middle of the 'architectural sound' space in the Sydney Bahai temple and hearing various scripture recited then watching and hearing a Persian man chanting in Fasi and being aware of how the place was acoustically designed and hearing it ( the chanter is in the centre under a huge dome, the words go up , echo off the inside of the dome, come down hit the floor and spread out through the 9 doors and directions into the world ... and seeing tears running down peoples cheeks as they heard it ( not tripping, by the way ) ..... Experiencing connections with people, self and land and other energies via contact with it via help from Aboriginal shamanic teacher ( a shamanic system without the use of drugs, by the way ) , and living with those people- totally 'dirty in the earth' spiritual . Then there was the ritual work, some of that was a 'gas' ! I had some amazing visionary stuff doing Enochian work (without drugs , by the way ) , Also experiences with little kids growing up and helping them do it, for me those have been very spiritual . Love experiences and relationship, etc , Even working with refugees and at times torture victims ,,,, sometimes a very spiritual experience ... although at times it felt like my heart was being torn out . Several near death experiences of my own . That really helped. I suppose now, they are deeper yet simpler and more long lasting. Its hard to describe but just waking up each day and experiencing another day of life ( after looking at so much death, including my own, and being given another chance , more than once ) . The early LSD experiences were different, it was like pulling the false covering off things, including myself, deep realisations and insights , but also funtastical stuff like watching the pixies play on the lawn and throw handfuls of sparkle dust at each other. Once I took 300 mcg of pure clear light, meditated for a while, did some rad breathing cycles and then did a Buddhist 'destruction meditation' (instead of visualising my own corpse, since I had experience with it in my hospital work at the time, I visualised going to my own autopsy ) boy was that effective on LSD ! The last time I had psychadelics was gold top mushrooms , I knew it was going to be my last experience so I asked for a good one, did the right prep, etc . I was wondering what would happen as I had already 'cleared' a lot of the other stuff, the preliminary destruction and rebirth stuff, and wanted to go further ... wow ! I did . This is getting a bit long so I better stop. Now, its more mellowed out, simply just life ( and being in a nice place helps a lot ... both internally and externally ) does it, but that has a lot to do with all the work done previously . I feel I have been successful as I am happy with my simple life (as far as externals , needs, possessions, etc . go ) , satisfied and live in a simple and fulfilled joy, I found my purpose and life work and was able to enact it, that brings a LOT of happiness and satisfaction . So, its a little hard to compare, but I hope the above gave you an idea about it .

My dear Marbles .... its all a matter of ma'ai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maai

Marbles, ya gotta watch this ! - I couldn't find a clip but it is in the 'Man friday' movie ( Friday's version of the Robinson Crusoe movie ) Chapter ; 'In which Master teaches me the importance of 'mine' and 'yours' . Starts with Friday wearing Masters hat ... that's my hat ! " What is this 'mine ' word ?" Crusoe tries to explain but gets tangled . Friday , ' No , it fits my head very well , " etc . Eventually Master lies that it is a magic hat with a spell on it ( the spell of 'mine ' ) and it will hurt Friday if he wears it .... just like masters gun that only he must touch , that can hurt Friday ! ... but it will hurt Friday if he tries to use it on master . When Fridays tribe hears the story the invent a crazy game called 'yours and mine' and running around claiming coconuts and rocks and things as exclusively their own or allocating them to certain people and forbidding others to touch them and are rolling around laughing at it . (one young hot head starts to like it as a good idea, but the tribal 'doctor' decides he has caught 'Master sickness' and directs a young woman to take him off to the bushes to cure it - he soon forgets his argument ) Anyway, have a watch . Cant find a clip of 'yours and mine' but here is one of Friday learning about " Education " .

Beautiful ! In light of what I just wrote and the article I linked to .

Its a collective concept .... like 'hive' but we get used to living under some idea of one single identity . Probably safer for most Peeps out there . Body is 'your' ( ) tool , on the physical 'Earth' plane . Mind is 'your tool' on the intellectual 'air' plane Most westerners associate self : mind but mind is a tool , it is not supposed to be running the show . I call it spirit ... not in a spiritual sense though Spirit is your essential nature or your 'propensities' that you born with. Spirit, or individuality is accessed via fire element as it comes into the 'psychic anatomy' . Fire is also associated with 'imagination' (and of course this has a much deeper and significant meaning than is usually given it, I see it as 'soul' ) What constitutes this 'elusive possessor ' is complex and not just one thing . " Swedenborg describes all of life as a hierarchy of beings representing essentially different orders and yet acting in correspondence with each other. The Lord acts through celestial angels, who in turn correspond on a lower level to spiritual angels, who in turn correspond to a third lower heaven-all of which corresponds to and acts into man. On the opposite side there are three levels of hell acting out of direct contact into man. Man is the free space and meeting ground of these great hierarchies. " This is disturbing to most , even Swedenborg said it was dangerous for the average person * For further info on this and how the 'possessor' is put together and can also 'fall apart' (and for those who like 'danger' ; ) http://www.theisticpsychology.org/books/w.vandusen/presence_spirits.htm * there are two schools of thought on this ; 1. Do not disrupt the set up by revealing knowledge of it .. most people work fine under the illusion of 'one self that is somehow them' .... we are getting on okay without it . ( But are we ? Really ? 'We' don't seem to have a good track record since the development of agriculture ! ) 2, Knowledge is power - to be fore warned is to be forearmed , so some schools and teachers taught it , like 'surprisingly; Steiner .

... and that is without even addressing shamanism (but someone else has ) ' Westerners ' , Buddhists, Hindus , etc no one holds a monopoly in this field, all methods are valid as long as they give results . corrupted methods or substances do not count , just as a fake Daoist (or any other type of ) master and his followers should not be a condemnation for all of Daoism. But then again I following an eclectic path and have an anthropological focus ( ie. the experience of people regardless of time , location and culture is seen as equally valid and contributing parts of the human experience and consciousness.

I just defined clearly a point I was making in the post above this one that you quoted . and yes, I thought I did outline the point that such drugs can lead to higher realisations ( with the qualifications I outlined above ) and the point that some substances have uncontrolled additives and to beware of sources . Certainly ! I gave up LSD years and years ago, after the pure supply got shut down. I feel no need now to take any type of hallucinogen. Yet, the experiences I had on it , in concert with managing it properly, and giving it all time to bed in to 'normal consciousness', to me, have been invaluable in certain areas of perception and realizations ... many realisations ! I have seen others have them too, and carry on into their life afterwards. Myfirst real LSD experience , it was a real shock to see my false self, that had been previously enmeshed in a total false mind set about many things . The realisation that things were connected in a wholeness or a oneness was a biggie for me back then . Of course one can theorise and postulate about such things, but to perceive them is another experience.

The issue with Ayahuasaca is it is (supposed to be ) a brew of various ingredients . Who knows what you or others took ? " The ingestion of ayahuasca can also cause significant, but temporary, emotional and psychological distress. Excessive use can lead to serotonin syndrome, with symptoms such as tremors, diarrhea, autonomic instability, hyperthermia, sweating, muscle spasms and possible death. Long-term negative effects are not known.[43][44] A few deaths due to participation in the consumption of ayahuasca have been reported.[45][46][47] Some of the deaths may have been due to unscreened preexisting heart conditions, interaction with drugs, such as antidepressants, recreational drugs, caffeine, or nicotine, or any of the various additional plants that are frequently added to brews.[ - wiki , my emphasis It could be like taking 'trips' or 'tabs' , ie, LSD + ? ie, not pure good quality . In the past 'acid tabs' used o include small amounts of strychnine .

Same with Guru Maharishi ( I think ) some of his 'hip' followers gave him a high dose of good stuff . He took it, after a bit started meditating ...... then began smiling ... then after a while ; " This is a very interesting drug ! " I believe he had previously encountered that 'realm ' via other methods . (of course there are many methods, not just drugs - even in exo-psychology ; a 'level' or circuit can have association with a drug , a 'location for consciousness' * , a stage in individual development, a stage in the human race's overall development / evolution , etc * eg . Neuro-genetic consciousness is said to be 'cellular consciousness' or 'reside in the DNA . With Circuit 8 - 'The neuro-atomic metaphysiological ' {Leary } ; the location of consciousness is said to be 'non local' { The non-local quantum circuit - Wilson } ) .

Agreed, but my main point is , your descriptions of this persons level of consciousness experience could do with some clear terms , as it is a little hard to know what you are trying to describe Eg; " many levels/layers of relative form and astral stuff, and then beyond that are the various formless realms " Sorry , but it does sound rather New Age, in that .... errrmmm ..... well, it doesn't sound like you know the subject very well .... to put it simply and bluntly - without meaning to be offensive.

There is a system that has tried to map consciousness using western science 'ideas' , concepts and terms ; Exopsychology. Its basis is "Consciousness is chemical " . In this system LSD is seen as a trigger that can indeed access ' higher and formless realms. Every level is associated / triggered by / seeking escape in various types of drugs - ( ' Venus ' ) EG Alcohol has two effects ; initially ( a couple of drinks or a few ) The Socio sexual circuit .... then after 'too many ' it triggers the 'anal / territorial circuit What the fuck you lookin' at ? ! ( ' Mars ' ) OR Circuit 1 - Bio survival circuit , centred in the brain stem and hind brain - related to the basic polarity base line ' flight fight syndrome ' related to opiates ... which , initially, can blunt awareness of everything except a warm glowing 'in the womb' ecstatic feeling / pain relief . Regardless of any 'forays' into other circuits / states of being / consciousness one carries their propensities (chemical makeups ) with them . You got ( supposedly ) as much chance of being wholly in another state as some one with clinical depression or a lack of lithium in their brain has . But according to this theory LSD is THE KEY ( neuro-electric circuit ) to be able to reprogram the other controlling circuits . Of course this has to be done the right way ( again according to that system ) ; set, setting, qualified guide, etc . Just dropping some ( supposed ) acid and trying to nut it out yourself (especially with no background in eclectic consciousness mapping and exploration systems - Psychonautics ) .... good luck with that one ! ( ' Mercury ' )

No ... some other member of the secret internal Daobums society