Nungali

The people that came to prominence in India to which the caste system is first attributed , relate to that division of people that I earlier spoke of ... remember the quote from Indra ... the warmonger ... the 1000 testicled on , on testosterone overload and cranked up with speed ( Soma ... ephedra and other stuff ) . While the associated quote from the 'Asura ' ( a 'God' from an earlier stage before the conflict between the people who would become "Indians' and 'Iranians ' ) is totally different and from a variant tradition . They were about 'Good Kingship' for the people . I also posted the very different forms of what their original 'vara' ( groupings , enclosures or ' holding together ' ) were and how they differed and the 'Indic form' was more controlling and domineering , especially over woman (and yes, it could have been 'racial' as well . Its all back there and already been gone through extensively . The Indian branch did what they did in india , and the wiki entry on caste system ( from an Indian perspective, they all are ! * ) notes its connection with 'kingship' . [ * central asia is forgotten as a place of developing civilisation , the Avestas are rarely cited when other scriptural records are and most religious discussions , even historical ones , hardly mention Zoroastrianism .... if it wasnt for the BIble account of the jews being freed and how great a King Cyrus was .... we might not have known for centuries . ] Cyrus practiced Good kingship , caste was not implemented - 'vara' was , that is, a professional 'guild system', women were much more equal ( and I have posted on this elsewhere too ), all peoples including women can be initiated and wear the red thread, etc etc . all back there a few pages . Cyrus allowed others in, created a huge Empire of many different types, supported the other religions and temple building (ie other cultures ) and released the Jews and sent them back with money goods treasure guards and stuff to rebuild the temple his predecessors destroyed . So yes , the contingent of war like people that spoke PIE and moved into India and established their way there may have been as you described above .. and the caste system may be that ( but I recommend reading up on all the influences since then - especially the British one , which made it really bad . But later developments in 'Persia' seemed much more ' liberal ' and based on the principles pf "good Kingship' from the Avestas . ( and yes I do realise there were times when both HIndus and Zoroastrians were good and bad , but I am not talking about that ) But this is hardly indicative of all the peoples that have been referred to as 'Aryans ' . ( One interesting thing is, after the Muslim invasion of Iran and much persecution , the Hindus and other Indians were the people that gave the Zoroastrians refuge , and some still survive today as ' Parsee ' . ) Voidisyinyang ; try to read the words carefully , I spent extra time choosing them for very specific reasons so as to NOT cause confusion . If it is unclear I am happy to explain any points . But please refrain from calling me a Natzi in super big type ( point 7 type may be acceptable ) . So yes, the people that came into India

So .... you are still adding large font ... continually .... yourself then ?

Ah well, I tried ; The password does not contain the required characters. Please note that you will need to enter a valid email address Please note , I did enter email a valid email address and my password was much more than 6 characters and contained letters and numbers ... and I tried 3 times . Mhe ... I try again tomorrow .

Oh damn ... Michael , I just remembered .... is your request to me still current ? ... that I " post before lighting up when responding to you " ?

There was an 'advert / banner' that suddenly appeared on each page when you went there, I think , with a month's notice . Imagine finding all the current subs and working out their pro rata refunds ! Anywayz that place was a dinosaur ,,,, very primitive early tech on that site ..... not like this one I imagine MS has got a brand new shiney system

Hooray ... Tarot eclecticism has been released from bondage ! I am supposing no inexplicable rules like : if someone wants help in understanding their reading, they must not quote more than three cards from within that reading ... or do not use an image to communicate an idea ( on a trot forum ! ? WTF ! ?? ) and furthermore .... If that is the case . I might just start posting again ! Thanks Michael !

Then polish it up a bit ... add the lyrics ....

I have not heard this until now A raw and experimental version .... Funky !

Then I would presume you mean also those nasty 'Asuras' that fell from grace and became the ' Good Guys' of the Iranians ... they were 'people of the Vedas'. Unless you meant the early Vedas ... where they were still Good guys . - I guess you meant 'Sanskrit speakers' accepted other s as part of their culture if they displayed the same cultural traits or adaptations (like language ) ? Thats the idea I had about 'Aryans' , not genetic at all . A sharing of certain cultural components . And interestingly enough, ( according to pre-historic sources ) when certain cultural differences ( variation in belief, ceremony and mores and taboos ) arose, that caused , perhaps , a split between the PIE (speakers - ie those that shared a language, even if it was just a trade language ) peoples into who became the 'Vedic people' and the 'Avestan people' . resulting in t= what the Iranian branch termed 'The Great War of Religion ' yes, this war is in the vedas too ... but it seems to be described differently ( of course ! ). I have also discussed this with Indian historians ... it git bogged down with localities, meanings, times, names of rivers, changing rivers , arguments about what Sanskrit terms meant , Indian experts throwing the copies of the Vedas at each other . Its on 'Historium forum' ... I deoart when it goes into pages of complex Sanskrit analysis and arguments and cross reference abut terms and misunderstandings ..... sigh .

Hmmmm ... I seem to remember some guy here trying to point that out ???? Wait ! ' Vedic people ' ! ? Who are vedic people ?

NOpe . Here is your big mistake . It lies in the way you connected parts of my first post together . That is why you refuse to post the contextual bits and extract a few words or a phrase . Show me in that post where I claimed the mummies were "Aryan' . here is the first introductory paragraph that caused all this silly flap of yours ; " I have made a few posts about : the old Aryan 'Empire' that stretched from (now ) western China to (now ) Turkey , 'Caucasian Chinese mummies ' , how the Aryans were not to be defined by race or ethnicity and put up a picture of a painting of an old Aryan King from Pishdadian dynasties ( before history ) in very much Chinese looking robes features and hairstyle. " No where does it say those mummies were Aryan . " - First I mention some other posts I made , I separate them by color for you; blue , see below if you cant understand its meaning , red ; another post I made, not, no use of the word Aryan , green, a note I often include to make it clear what I am talking about, which you chose to absolutely ignore , italics, another reference to a post. When you read it you added a whole lot of ' becauses , so and therefores ... in your own mind ! You have added all your own stuff to connect that together in an incorrect way . The (Now) Western China I referred to is NOT the Tarim Basin area .... you didnt even look at the maps I showed and just went off ranting and screaming about your own suppositions ; LOOK ! : Middle far right . Do you realise how recently that became ' China ' ... the 'NOW China . ie current and political . Have you ever seen the ethnicity of these western Chinese people . This is no where near the Tarim Basin ! and the only reason I called the mummies caucasian is that is what all the flap was about and what term people know them by and would know what I am referring to . Also regarding what I wrote about Greek and Aryan (cultural) connections related to mythology .... its about a connection between their cultures , there were inks and info on that . Prometheus was chained to a rock in the Caucasus , you realise . But you had to imagine Aryan war chariots riding into greece and creating civilisation ... and then abuse me for thinking that and call me a Natzi. Like the similar reaction you had when I said 'aryan influences ' passed into Europe . You went off on pages of genetics to deny that , even though I was not talking about that . here is an example of what I was talking about .... take Zoroastrianism , which was considered an important religion of the Aryan people that came to power in Persia . If anyone studies religion .... objectively .... ALL mainstream Euro religions ( Jew Christian and Muslim ) all have inherited basic theological principles from Zoroastrianism . Now, when I make a comment like ' Influence passed into Europe' I am more than happy to explain what I mean, if anyone asks me a question about it . But taking the tack you have here , is just reactive and is an attacking mode . So dont complain when you get attacked back... in a more and honest and open way .... and stop whining to the mods about requests to you ...... thankyou Oh gawd ... yes, we noticed .... put one gold star in your exercise book then 'Caucasian Mummies ' not Aryan mummies ... you made up Aryan Mummies , not me !

You are continually confused .... when you wrote this, you even quoted me above it as saying ; " and that .... is one reason why I choose to use the more modern term ' Proto Indo Iranian ' (as I earlier pointed out ) , over PIE Proto Indo European. The 'Aryans' were but a part of many dynamics and were only active in certain areas . To use PIE , to me, is incorrect as some can think they are the source of 'European people ' . That is .... I said , if people think it means 'a source of European people ' it is incorrect Is this a game you play ? Note, for about the 7th time now ; 'Aryan "empire" was in quote marks and i explained then and numerous times its a term they used and might just be describing people they traded with or just places they knew about . You continually ignore that as it does not suit your strange agenda and keep returning to this phrase like a jumping needle on an LP record . Are you trying to 'save face ' or something ?

The one that represented me did not have a metal hip joint .

Luv it ! Thank you ! Yes , those are the bones of members of the Human Race . Now, any reasonable person would assume that means we are all one race . You name a supposed 'race ' and its made up of people from other 'races' coming together . of course, that makes no sense at all . People are so insistent about many things ! Linguistics ? Even some linguists doubt the basic premise on which it works . Genetics ? What does it track but changes or mutations in the gene pool , so what ! ? Quantum physics , dark matter , alternate universes ? Maybe just ideas to try and patch the holes in an attempt at a unified field theory . . . . what if the fields are not meant to be , or are not, naturally unified and G force is 'supposed to be ' apart , or a result of the other 3 ? I know ... Thats Nungali crazy talk ... and I deserve to be chastised and mocked for it ..... in 72 point type . ( I will tell you how sick it can all get , young Nungerali was talking to a woman and she said she was from South Africa and mentioned apartheid . I said I didnt like South Africans because of that and it made me prejudiced against them. She asked 'You are prejudiced against coloured people ? " I said, " No. I am sorry but , I am prejudiced against white South Africans " and she goes :No, you are confused I am coloured, I left because of prejudice against me ! " "You ! ... but you look white , a little tanned maybe , some freckles and brown hair and eyes . How can they tell." "They looked under my tongue " she told me ......... WTF ?

My God ! Someone bought up the original subject of this post ! Thats right ! Thats what all this was supposed to have been about !

Its interesting to see the French ( Rousseau was french wasn't he ?) reports of their first contact with the Australian Aboriginals as opposed to the 'official British view ' . The French praise them, their good and healthy physique , their lifestyle .... their 'noble' demeanour , etc . The British view was, officially to see them as little ore than clever apes that wandered the countryside * . But the interesting thing is , in Captain Cook's diary , who actually met many of them, especially at Cooktown, where the men got off the boat and campped out with them (they stayed on the boat at Botany Bay, and had little interaction ) he praises them like the French did. He also notes they have a fantastic lifestyle, no class distinction, no "Lord over them' they are 'free men', they want for nothing, nothing the British offered them was of use to them, they had everything they needed, he said they would smile and nod and then walk away and leave gifts and wonderful new things they tried to give them on the ground. Cook seemed amazed and impressed. Of course this went down terribly with the established order .... free men ... with no Lord over them ? Those sections were removed from Cooks diaries and he was punished for that. Of course, all people can be both good and bad . When I would go and stay with my Aboriginal friends, boy did they look after me and treat me well , some of the the nicest people I have ever met . Well .... there was this time they caved a guy's skull in with a stone axe a couple of years back ..... but they didnt like him . . .

Wait ! Doesnt Aryan mean noble ?

No .... all your goings on about first hit second hit etc . ... that isnt wiki .... see how you read what you want in things ? ( I swear ... its like talking to a sheep ! ) You dont know how your search engine works do you ? Now, when you type in just about anything , you gonna get neo nazi hits somewhere on the page . I advise you to 'stop it ... or you go blind ' ... oh wait , that already happened I think .... serves you right for being so 'vigourous " about it

again , you cant quote me saying that can you You missed the thread of why this particular explanation came and in what context it was supposed to be read ... it wasnt a claim that Lapis lazuli ws aryan trade at all . Go back and read the last 3 pages ... camly . You are now the one claiming it was 'aryan trade ' so you wrong again ! I already described this .... about how there are original neolithic evidence in the area , different people moving in and out , influence to and fro from Indus ... remember all that ? .... ingress from the steppe , contact with 'China" ... but you just take one thing , scream and shout " Now he is saying that Chinese were Aryans ! " ... oh, thats right you already tried that one ... or was it the Aryans were Chinese .... actually I think you claimed I said both Now you have put up a good summary (for your proof ? ) of many of the things I have been trying to tell you about ... that you never heard of until you started talking to me in the first place . You didnt even know about 'Central Asia's Lost Civilisation ' and hence must never have encountered the BMAC ( both from Sarinidi who I also quoted and linked to ) What a strange fellow !

also I specifically said : " Not at all ... I already said twice that a cultural influence from a group of people going into another continent is not any proof of, or need be related to genetics ... or even linguistics .... or even cultural transference . " I doubt you even know what is going here . You have next to zero reading comprehension , prob due to blindness as you are now just blindly reacting and thrashing about ..... without actually reading any other person's explanation ..... Your level has gone from 'internet frenzy' , to 'internut' ... soon to be ' rabid internut ' . Do continue .

You cant even understand the quotes you are rushing off to find at random The last one states ; By the second half of the 4th millennium BCE, Badakshan lapis lazuli (stone of blue) was being traded in countries as far west as Sumer and Akkad (Mesopotamia), and the Nile Delta (Egypt) (cf. Ancient Mesopotamian Materials and Industries by Peter Roger Stuart Moorey, p. 86) That means the start of trade .... it continued for some time . Also a cultural influence can accrete to a trade commodity that passes through a culture even though it might not originate there. Thats so obvious ... I will randomly type in 'ancient lapis lazuli trade ' , and quote the first hit ( that isnt Wiki .... as you are want to do ) " Erich Schmidt’s excavations at Tepe Hissar (1931-32) for the University Museum as well as those of the Soviet Academy of Sciences in southern Turkmenia and of the Istituto Italiano per it Medio ed Estremo Oriente at Shahr-i Sokhta have revealed the existence of technologically advanced towns and villages on the western slopes of the Afghanistan plateau. In the strata corresponding to the period 3000-2000 B.C. in the larger settlements, in particular at Shahr-i Sokhta and Tepe Hissar, remarkably large quantities of chips, rejects and finished objects of lapis lazuli have been found side by side with equally large num­bers of stone implements made of flint, jasper and touchstone. In the past, workers engaged in studying ancient urban civilizations paid relatively little attention to the lithic industry, absorbed as they were in the study of artistic and monumental products. And yet, according to the evidence at hand, it seems likely that, during the whole of the 3rd millennium, tech­nology and economic production were still closely linked to stone implements. Whereas in Mesopotamia it may be claimed that these implements were rapidly replaced by metal ones, in Iran, Turkmenia and the Indus Valley many classes of implements were only slightly affected by the advent of metallurgy. However, the evidence provided by the latest research seems to indicate that these classes were affected, as regards quantity and typology of the implements, by the gradual increase in trading. In the trading regions be­tween the mining centers in Afghanistan and the Mesopotamian markets, the relationship between technology and trade is reversed with respect to Mesopotamia. Rather than technology stimulating trade, the latter affects the specialization of men and implements in the regions the product passes through. " https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/lithic-technology-behind-the-ancient-lapis-lazuli-trade/

Not at all ... I already said twice that a cultural influence from a group of people going into another continent is not any proof of, or need be related to genetics ... or even linguistics .... or even cultural transference . Have you ever heard of ......... trade ? Note ... if I change the highlighting you added ; SOME of those influences went into Europe and joined in with other influences there or coming into it . And this followed me previously explaining how some influence of their culture went into North Africa , including Egypt . ... I also meant trade , as I previously explained that in detail . Now , if you would care to show a source for ancient Egyptian lapis lazuli other than coming from ( now ) Afghanistan .... or, if you like , the ' Fourth Aryan Nation' of Bakhdim . ... go right ahead .

Which is why I originally said that on page 1 ... idiot ! yet again, as I said 4 times now ... it might just be a description of the places they knew about . Obviously you are arguing in ignorance . Why ? : 1. You obviously have not read the passages in question in the original . The Vendidad's description of these ' nations ' ( if you prefer I can use the original Avestan word ) reads more like an ancient 'Pilot's Guide' to travelling and backpacking ; these are the good features of this place .. watch out for ..... the good things are ... the natives are known to be .... etc. Of course its all written in the way peeps wrote things back then but heaven knows what your interpretations of that would be ! You would probably dispute it because it says 'God made these countries good or bad in their own ways but Airyanum Vaeja was the best ' . Now, if you think the bolded bit is Nazism ..... well, 'God bless America ! ' ... the best country in the world pfffft ! 2. Its obvious you just googled Aryan and got this as those are the words highlighted . You should also learn to use the internet better . And also realise your browser keeps throwing up Nazi stuff as first hits as you have pre programmed it by going to so many Nazi sites constantly . Now your own computer has tagged you as a neo nazi ...... now, when it gets electronically invaded and spied upon ( without you even knowing ) ... the spies will know ! Ha - haaarrrrrrr ! Nope, I clearly referenced the term to its usage in the Vendidad. and you haven't even understood the context of the different parts of the first post and some asides I added in it . You concocted a story in your own head . Liar . I never said far west as usual, you cant quote me , just make stuff up about what you think I said . Which is stupid and further exposes you (by yourself ) as all anyone has to do is go to the first post and read exactly what I did say . NOpe , never said it was an empire of Persia , persian empire came later . Get off the silly English understanding of Empire trip , I already said 6 times the word may not mean what we now think it means .... go look up the original word if it means that much to you . I see ... I am now trying to deny that races exist as some type of cover to put forward a racial superiority theory ... even though the human race is .... one race Please go on .... ( this just gets better and better )

By the extreme ignorance and arrogance you demonstrated yourself capable of here ... no one is going to take anything you say as worth anything or worth investigating .