Nungali

Oh come on now ! Just one little blue berry ... come on ... you can fit that in ... just one ?

Those little fellahs are real expensive here .. even they they have started growing them everywhere .... how much a punnet are they where you live ?

Oh damn ! and just when Brian had a good question to ! By the way , the film you speak of was debunked ages ago ... ages ! All the points I bought up about the holes in it were never addressed , and now I see this is a subject now ' closed for discussion' .... the people trying to defend it just played games and tried to use fancy footwork to get around the issues that were pointed out about the film . But, even with all that fancy footwork .... you lot still seem stuck in the same position

its a flappy soft noise like the fingers patting down onto the palm

Indeed it was .... read according to their traditions . Where else in their traditions does it mention this 'Chinese desert' ? and where is there any other case of the Hebrews ( at the time of ' mosses' ) being aware of China . ... or that ' sini ' was ever a Hebrew word or means 'China' By the way Shinto ... what is your 'first language ' ? ( a reasonable question when dealing with 'linguistics' . )

Huh ? what ... who ??? Me ! ? ? ?

Thelemic philosophy Nuit is formless and void Hadit is the form and material Hadit is made from the 4 classical elements and a fifth - 'quintessence ' * that joins and divides all things Nuit is not composed of elements but is calling to our souls * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_(classical_element) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintessence_(physics)

Come on guys ... just one more teensie little tiny bit of pie

PS can you give me source on this when I enlarge it it blurs

yeah, I was just trying to get clear on what you meant. I meant , the ealry history of chinto , but I found one and put it up . Thanks, thats what I assumed by 'generally' , as I outlined above ... up there somewhere ^ Yup . Thats one reason . Thats the 'mainstream ' story .... so far .... Thats the stuff I was looking for , thankyou ! yes, thanks , I did not think that vid was very comprehensive after watching it all . Aha ! yeah , like I inferred above . its probably a case of many changes and forms ; in that vid I posted he also talks about a different 'old' Chinto within a style based on a different 'family's 'Seito' form . Sorry , next time , I try to fly right and straight and not by the seat of my pants .

I forgot to mention ... if one does include Egypt and considering the question of it seems it wasn't as prominent or detailed in the Western tradition, see; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._A._Schwaller_de_Lubicz (also consider how much was lost in destruction and degradation of records from thee ancient traditions ; in the Libraries at Alexandria and the old Zoroastrian knowledge ( estimated 90% lost ! - due to invasions and destruction , wilfully, of these records by Alexander and Islamic conquest ) , which may have been the larger part of the source of all this .

That depends if one counts Egypt within the field of 'west' certainly it played its part in the Alexandrian Synthesis from which hermetics were formed . One other imut there were the Zurvanites ... or as some might know them by their 'priests' ; Magi . They were descendants of a much older tradition and culture in prehistory, from the 'Pishdadian Era' , which could have been the origin of ' Mesopotamian type' astrology and other 'hermetic sciences' . Their early cultures had contact well into China ( remember the 'Chinese / Caucasian mummies' ? ) as a northern branch of the '17 Empire' Aryan collective -probably before the separation of peoples that went into Greece , and pre Vedic and Iranian Separation ( which resulted in one branch 'Devati' ) becoming strongly established in the Indus Valley and the other , to the western areas of the 'Empire' to , present day, Iran . .... after the 'Great War or Religion' ( a recent linguistic study has just shown that the language of the MItanni is not Mesopotamian , or based on other previously supposed localised peoples but related to peoples in eastern Afghanistan ..... the two extreme eastern and western extents of old Aryan Empire. ) The more anthropologists and archaeologists research and find, the more we realise how far ancient man could network, travel and exchange ideas and goods , over land and large sea distances . The issue with 'Central Asia' is the west focused primarily in 'the Fertile Crescent area' with little interest in Central Asia / Western (now ) China up till 1970 - since then war and difficult terrain and collapse of old infrastructure have made ingress difficult . Most of my study has been possible due to Russian research , particularly Viktor Sarianidi and more recent research and publications from UNESCO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Sarianidi

In the ToL Mars ? Geburah ; 'severity' and 'force' generates a restriction and focus of energies ( being under Saturn / BInah ) that come from Jupiter / Chesed ; 'mercy / expansion and 'feed' it to the 'Solar principle' which is the apex of the Sol Venus Mercury , next 'lower down' triad . Modern applications of old astrological theory , and some new theories ( qualified by more research since the 'modern scientific revolution' , especially in astronomy and psychology ) led me to understand that the ToL is not a good fit for the 'Psyche ' of Man , so I developed my own 'tree' / astro psychological model ... which you are familiar with . Mars sits down with the other inner planets Venus ( forming a polarised baseline ), apexed by Mercury ( in a triangular relationship ) - the tree inner 'personal' planets and representing the 3 base drives of psychology. The Moon ( as the 'unconscious' sits in the middle of this, like the 'eye in the triangle' and above it all, linked through Mercury as 'Psychopomp' to the Sun / Ego ( sun Moon conjoined ) .... below the 'tree' is rooted or manifests in 'environment ' (all external influences ) - this lower part and manifestation of my tree represents 'personna' Above this is the outer planets and ;transpersonal energies , creating a 'Superego' feedback system of local mores and taboos, and depending on many things ; customs or 'God' and religions . The gateway between the two is the , now Saturn and Jupiter 'polarity' . etc blah blah ... its qualified by many more processes and demonstrations , this was a brief summary . The G.D. tried to express it through Christian (and non anthropological ) metaphors ; before fall after fall But their take on the ' seven empyreans' is rather gnostical black school . But the 'qlippothic side' is evident in each sphere ( as we realise how each 'quality' can go wrong or not be 'worked in the right way ' ... this goes specifically for the 'male / mars ' energy . In a nutshell, the aim is to move to and through a 'qualified response' mode ( Moon and Sun linked through Mercury), rather than an emotive reactive one ( from either solely Mars or Venus ) ..... Mars and Venus are 'drives' which can help and save you even ( as represented by 'flight / flight ' reactions ) but Mercury can develop that flash of intuition that can make 'qualified decisions' using these drives or override them, depending on circumstances and learned and incorporated experience . Research has shown that 'intuition' operates best in those areas of greater expertise. IMO that indicates stored lessons and experience in the unconscious (Moon ) can be released, without 'meditation or mentation' / consciousness ... into consciousness ( The Sun ..... via Mercury - as also 'The Messenger ' ) like ..... that . < snaps fingers in a flurry of multicoloured mercurial sparks >

The same but different For daoists the 'complexities' of hermeticism can be penetrated and the core perceived in TTC Ch 42 . However - Daoism has 'its own approach' while hermeticism or western magic can have a variety of approaches and can include the daoist approach . But this is from an hermetic perspective - not a Daoist one . https://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_06 and . specifically ; https://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_08 ... the 'yellow school ' .

Who ? what ... where .... huh ? Me Chinese ? Noooo . Shinto ? Thats Japanese . Must be Marbles ... thats it ... the secret is out !

I found this Which of course, as usual, totally ignores the family tradition of Matsumura Soken and his line of private students through their family tradition that existed up to a few years ago ... even though many world famous big name karate-ka trained with them privately . And they keep referring to the 'hook stance' in Chinto , as 'Crane stance' which is a different stance , as in the Crane kata hakutsuru ... ... arrrghh! The knowledge is well out there (wiki) and virtually every single 'history' ignores it . Anywayz I guess peeps 'got their hands on it' and changed it . Called it crane on a rock then called the hook stance a crane stance to go along with the name change . this is the earliest Chinto I could find unfortunately the film is damaged at the end and Hohan Soken's kata is completed in the end section by a young Kosie Nishihira .

Dillman ? ! I heard Dilman himself say after one session with Hohan Soken In USA that he was invited by Hohan Soken to come to Okinawa and learn and train more ? Because he didnt have a clue what he was doing. ... according to Dillman himself . Anyway , can you direct me to a vid of this ? I would like to see it ! If they are going back to an original form, where are they getting that from ? Or do you mean that Okinawan karate generally, as a root of karate is becoming more popular ? I am guessing you mean generally as bunkai, kyusho, tuite etc. are common to Okinawan karate generally. Dillman would have learnt that way back after this : Hohan Soken to Dilman (after Dillman's performance and demonstrations ) ; " You do beautiful kata ... but you dont know why. To see that hurts me here < touches his heart > , you come my place we have 3 hour training session ... we do kumite . " Yikes ! Later Dillman : " Ohhh he knew ..... everything .... I thought I was going to die ! .... " But he never went back to learn it . Even though he now 10th Dan Soken to Dillman ; " In Okinawa , we make American maybe 1 or 2 dan , they never come back. Now in America, 3, 4 even 5 dan , how that happen ... they never come back ? " Dillman < aside and later > " I thought, Oh God, please dont ask me what dan I am . " (That must have been after his '3 hour private lesson ' .... with kumite ) Ooooo ! How did that happen ? The original form of Matsumura Soken 's form was highly influenced by white crane , this is what is a large part of the missing applications , in all the kata . The whole 'style' is based on part of white crane and the main kata is Hakutsuru - crane (again doe different to all others ) . The 'on a rock' was Chinto's defending position in the back of the cave he had camped out in, up the back on a higher rock (maybe developed from fighting on multi level surfaces as a pirate would on boat decking and stairs ? ) , I think that was the position he retreated to in the fight that Bushi could not defeat him from . How would you do that ? And how would you find the oldest extant variations ? Even okinawan styles do Chinto like ' Gangaku' . 'Multiculturalism '

well , there is 'spirit active' - that which unites all things , and 'spirit passive' - that which keeps each separate and intrinsic ..... otherwise it all dissolve into mush solve : coagula " ... neglect not one for the other . " Jack a quasiment la même posture que Baphomet

In a way , that is the 'third initiation ' * the first is as a human ( birth as a 'natural creature' ), then as a 'man or woman' ( a social and cultural member , the natural 'animal' becomes 'a social person ' ) , then the social person becomes a 'magical person' . Nowadays, in modern societies each must find these as they can . * as usual, I am speaking from a cross time and location general cultural 'human experience' , not a specific one . I can understand your process . Maybe it was a bit like Buddha leaving his protective garden . That's unfortunate as, in societies groups or clans that teach these things , what you are lacking here should have been an intrinsic part of your ' initiation ' . after a successful stage 3 , stage 4 should allow incorporation of both those . The scale swings from side to side, ever gradually decreasing in its arc from the original disruption. I hope you come to balance and stability . Try Interacting with people in the way and within the fields , that you can interact with them . Some people are unaware , some are not , some might even be ' hidden teachers' , encouraging you or 'pushing your buttons' . I think this forum is full of people that are open to various realities . Maybe its 'specific understandings of certain realities ' ? In this case , it would be akin to heresy ... ... which is a much worse crime than non-belief ! ( Apparently ) ( a bit of theological humor there )

Mine, at present , is broccolini .

More pie Godan examination ; 1. sit there with eyes closed and avoid this blow . 2, perform Chinto kata 3. get expelled from Dao bums OR - been here a while ? Sleeper agent ? They plant em ya know ! Then ages later they awaken ... they might not even know they are one. " Right then ! Ya pack of c***s ! "