Nungali

yes, I didnt want to get wet the other day when it rained , the umbrella cost me $16 .

I see ; the Japs decided that objects were not needed to define cultural process . In any case, I can see the reason for the definition , so thanks for explaining ... this time ... I think there is a wire crossed re the thumbs, I thought I was saing other animals have thumbs, in response to a post that seemed to be saying, our human difference was we did have thumbs (implying that other animals didnt ) . Okay, so , if I take your point that , now, some scientists do consider a new definition whereby animals can have 'culture' ... and you seem to acknowledge we share thumbs .... what do you see as the main basic human difference from animals ? ... and DONT say 'spirit ' .... without defining it

I been a bellows guy from way back !

Donals strikes already

Wait stop ! Donald has been highly critical of my little cabal ! he wrote posts against it ... HAAAALP ! I am being persecuted already ... it isnt fair ! I protest ! FOUL !

Ahhh , those were the days .... now its all conspiracy theory and 'Chinese whispers'. Okay, I will fess up too . I am in a secret cabal that meets one a month in my backyard, the grand poobah is a mod on this forum. I am in a polyamourous relationship with Apec and Marbelhead. And Brian is my brother-in-law. There ! Its out

Aha! a partial definition - thank you - also it helps me formulate my developing ideas on it . - I agree, even though my idea about what spirit is perhaps very different from most , certainly it must ; ' always remain free so that it can exist intuitively and spontaneously.'

Wow ... I ask what someone means by spirit and .....

yes ..... because I would know exactly what you mean Thats better than using a word that can mean anything .... while everyone assumes we all know what each other is talking about. " I know ! Let's all go meditate instead ." "Wait ... what do you mean by meditation, what type of meditation, there are lots of different types and ways to meditate, what one will we use ? " " Just shuddup and meditate for Gods sake ! "

The 'modern' human animal may be generally like that . I know some human animals here that still live as you describe (bolded bits ) . They all used to live like that here all the time ... for tens of thousands of years. We have to remember ( and I am constantly reminded of this, on this forum ) that 'we' humans , and human experience, is not defined by the narrow view and time slot of our own existence , in our own time location society and culture.

Because it is an activity by humans , I am really not following you here . It is as if you are protesting that the term humans does not include jellyfish What do you mean other species learnt culture ? , please show me a species that has culture . Are you gettin ornery cause I am right ? and right about the thumb thing too ?

I had a quick look at the book recommended. Here is a quick hint for you. At one stage I did suffer exhaustion; but it was more due to interaction with people and helping them - not so much j'ust doing magic' . I was at a festival we were putting on; so organisation and preparation, multiple one after another tarot readings (and some of the issues that people had and arose ! I mean serious shit to deal with ! One was a multiple rape victim ! Then there were heaps of people wanting/ needing massage / body work, and not enough people doing it, so I started doing that in between as well. I was sinking and loosing energy. But then I noticed the body workers near me .. one woman was a powerhouse ! She didnt stop and got MORE energy from doing it - she was GLOWING ! I enede up sitting in the bottom of a shower stall under cold water trying to regen. I talked to superwoman later and she taught me a valuable lesson; "You arent trying to do all that with your own energy ? No wonder you feel low ! Just be conduit for the energy. " Hmmmm .... I thought about that, yes. If one is connected to the source of Universal Energy, or whatever you want to call it ( divine white light , God, the center of the Universe, Dao, whatever ) it cant be depleted, just 'cycled around' and you, like an old garden hose that now has energized and pure water gushing through it .... will eventually become cleaned out on the inside as well. [ The same principle even fixed our farm water pipes ! ; ( I was skeptical but the company gave us a special 3 year money back if not satisfied deal. Got the water tested every 3 months .... e-coli count went down to 0 eventually ,,,, still using the system. http://www.grander.com.au/ ]

Firstly, dont listen to opinions of those that dont know the subject matter. Fortune liked Regardie and poo pooed Crowley (like a lit of people did) . Crowley had a range of sicknesses, as did many of his place and time - thats why they were always running off on adventures to healthier climates and places - if they were rich - I dont recall 'kidney disease' being a complaint * . There is no reason at all that practicing magic would effect your kidneys. Some of his little group suffered from bad water at their 'abbey', more lack of hygine than magic. Also he traveled all over the place and mountaineered, picked up diseases then . Lack of celibacy ? here we go ! The favorite Daobums subject ! Ha har! I been non celebate to an 'extreme degree' AND practiced magic - kidneys fine. Replenishing energy anyone that read a scrap of Crowley would realize that is exactly what a lot of the rituals he recommended are doing, I mean your basic preliminary before doing anything involves drawing in 'divine white light' (as Regardie put it , at times) from above down into the crown chakra and trough and out into the body. I have never, in 40 years of being familiar with the subject, ever heard that kidney disease is common with magicians . But Dion Fortune IS a bit of an 'old biddy ' .... I dont think she approved of cognac, cigars, billiards, and 'loose women ' ..... or smoking hashish Beastly things they are !

I suspect there is quiet a bit of 'Honne and Tateme' going on here . And why shouldnt there be ? As pointed out, we are human. Personally I would rather people just blurt it out ... their real issues , admin officials and all . But then again - I often dont get my personal preferences fulfilled .... whatever.

' it ' ..... dont you start up on me ! I know what it means and I do understand it , according to my understanding, of course it is the understanding of it from others here that wrote about it that I do not understand .

Certainly ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thumb#Other_animals_with_opposable_digits Did you know a Mole has extra thumbs ? Look up ' prepollex' . and regarding culture (as a verb) , equally, of course, as culture is a definition of human activity ; culture ˈkʌltʃə/ noun 1. the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively. "20th century popular culture" 2. the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society. "Afro-Caribbean culture" synonyms: civilization, society, way of life, lifestyle;

I still dont know what you guys mean when you throw the term 'spirit' around like that ?

Plenty animals got thumbs ..... more importantly ; culture no animals got that !

Oh , okay then 'some kind of attunement without your permission ' ! ? (what I wrote above was about 'good groups' , yes, I suppose there are many dodgy ones out there , but it would be a shame for a few bad apples to ..... )

Okay, but what IS spirit, you never defined it . You say not to ' trust ANYONE that says they can enlighten or empower you.' - fair enough, but then you go on to say " Stay away from societies, orders, esoteric schools etc " without explaining why. Since one follows the other, one assumes you think the 2nd must do the first ? Or is there another reason ? On the face of it, this seems very narrow and ill informed - In my experience the " society, order, esoteric school etc " made it VERY clear to me , right at the beginning that if I expected or wanted such from them ( being empowered and enlightened by them and not through my own efforts skills and learning and development ) I should leave immediately . The reason for any valid fraternity order or school should be to offer assistance and education so the person can find these things themselves and learn how to develop and grow in a balanced way .

I see .... I hope you dont take that idea too far

Nah ... they got SIX legs !